The Worth of a SBS backup

OK,

Our current SBS server is on it's last leg. Right now I'm left with trying to get ti moved to a new server before it dies. All I need off the server is exchange and the active directory (users, security groups, distribution groups, cals, ect). I know if could just back up the server and restore it. That ONLY works if the replacement hardware is a exact match for the old hardware.

So whats the whole point to using SBS backup tools? I just want to backup exchange and the active directory. I don't want drivers, and everything else that is put into the "System State" part of the backup.
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PyromanciAsked:
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
First it's not a HP problem. it's a problem with microsoft and their poor planning for the NTbackup Utility. It is including way more then what is needed for quick rebuild.

I have located a tool that can take that backup strip all the unneeded stuff out of it and rebuild the SBS from it with far less problems and hickups then using the ntbackup utility to do the restore.
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jmanishbabuCommented:
Check this article for AD backup and restore

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727048.aspx

And for exchange Backup

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/258243

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Scott GorcesterCTOCommented:
you might try imaging tools such as Acronis or Ultrabac, boot the server from the imaging disk, create an image backup to an external drive then restore the image on the new hardware or into a virtualization host.  most tools allow restoring the image to different hardware.

Have a look at this EE article.


http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Server/SBS_Small_Business_Server/Q_27088217.html
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
refer to this document , how to backup and restore SBS server from Microsoft :

http://download.microsoft.com/download/b/d/8/bd8e1a40-d202-429a-8eb7-26300d62bcc9/bku_bkuprstr.doc
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
@jmanishbabu & jordannet
Both links are basically the same, and each one I have have tired the 2 different ways that apply to us. Both of which cause the new server not to boot. As it's looking for hardware that does not exist. The new server is a 100% different hardware then the old server.

@moosesupport
I have never know a restore software that uses a disk image to restore to new hardware successfully. that link is basically just talking about cloning the persons hard drive.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
Yes jordannet that is what i'm currently having to do, but doesn't answer the point of my question. Which it seems it is entirely possible i was not clear on it.

 Whats the point of the SBS Backup if :
1 Your server is completely fired (motherboard/processors/raid controller/ect)
2 The hardware in your server that just fired is EOL and can not be purchased for replacement (which is our case right now, but is not dead yet) so new and different hardware must purchased

Under these circumstances you can't use your backup from the SBS that ran the night before to rebuild a new machine to replace the one that died, because the backup will end up restoring boot files preventing the machine form booting.

So are you entirely SOL when it comes to your exchange and active directory?

Because right now from this process that is what it seems like.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
do you still have Hard disk??? i have great suggestion ..lol , its converting the hard disk to virtual one, run it on virtual machine using vmware workstation its can be fine then migrate again
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
you did not answer the question do you still have the Hard disk alive? we have many tricks to let your machine back
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
Your still missing the point, it's hypothetical. So for this situation that i'm talking about no there is no HD. All i have is a SBS backup.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
aha ok , sbs backup which the application you take it?
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
The built in Windows Backup Utility. the Backup Contains the System State and Exchange. Nothing else.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
what SBS version do you have?2003 or 2008?
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
2003 sorry
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
The usual way is to get a backup (ntbackup) from the old machine first. (at least system-state plus the system volume). Then, build a new machine with the same partitioning and SP/patch level. Finally, boot to DS restore mode, en restore the old server, you will bypass the registry and HAL problems associated with different hardware
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
see here also very helpful Powepoint file :

http://support.microsoft.com/servicedesks/webcasts/wc031902/WC031902.ppt 

wish to you good luck
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
This is something i tired earlier today. when the machine rebooted it crashed on startup looking for drivers that where not on the machine, but were on the old machine.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
driver? ok its not does matter so did you restore your active directory to the new machine? and the status now its crash on startup for looking for driver .. is that correct?
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
i think this forum thread have exactly same of your state :

http://forums.techarena.in/small-business-server/973621.htm

all comments are important
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
Yes. it was looking for the old raid controller, though as for the status of if it actually restored everything properly could not be verified because of the crashing.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
can you login in safe mode?
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
no you can't
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
ok what type of hard disks ? is there any RAID settings on BIOS? this problem usually happened when windows can not detect the type of RAID or SATA controller , as i remember when its happened on laptops like hp laptops we logging to BIOS and change SATA controller type to IDE , am not sure if you have something like this but am sure its same idea , just login to BIOS and see if you have something you can change in your RAID controller type ..btw what is model of your new machine?
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
The new machine is a HP Proliant DL360 G6. The hard disks are HP 450GB SAS drives setup in Raid 1+0.

The bios do not have a option for that.

the driver the machine was looking for happen to be a NVRaid driver.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
i think its issue with memory protection try to disable it .. follow this link :

http://www.tricksguide.com/blue-screen-error-hardware-malfunction-pci-express-error-hp-proliant-server.html

and tell me if its work .
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
The crash isn't a blue screen. in fact it never made it past the windows logo on start up. Instead of the normal BOSD it was a black screen stating the nvraid.sys file was missing or corupt and told me to repair the OS.

So from this i see it as the SBS backup is almost pointless or at the very least pointless depending on hardware.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
its RAID controller issue..wait i will get the best solution for your case , am worry about you man , i know how is your issue critical.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
i have alternative idea ,i wish it will be good .. download the driver of RIAD from here :

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodTypeId=15351&prodSeriesId=3884319&prodNameId=3884320&swEnvOID=1005&swLang=8&mode=2&taskId=135&swItem=MTX-4c576b3ec8234efbbf901628b9

you need to have floppy disk , i know its silly but i think it will work , extract the drivers to floppy , then reboot your machine and boot from SBS bootable CD , the blue screen of windows setup will appear , in the progress when you see :
"Press F6 if you need to install a third-party SCSI or RAID driver"
press F6 - insert floppy disk , windows will install the RAID drivers , now continue to Recovery console , login and do nothing just type exit and reboot your machine , remove CD and floppy and tell me if its work , i think its best idea
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
sadly the machine is already reformatted back to the point of the bare 2003 installtion (no AD, exchange, ect). So i would have finish the install and retry the backup again.

Do think before the reboot after the restore, reinstalling drivers then would help?
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
am not gonna ask you to format just push the drivers to the machine , that's it... without need to reinstall , just try it , i wish that will help
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
yes , reinstall drivers , i wish that can help , also do firmware upgrade .. and keep update me
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Scott GorcesterCTOCommented:
@moosesupport
I have never know a restore software that uses a disk image to restore to new hardware successfully. that link is basically just talking about cloning the persons hard drive.

Imaging wont help you with this problem but I can assure you that this is very doable.  I have first hand experience imaging over a hundred systems from Physical to Physical; Physical to Virtual, and Virtual to Physical and in most cases it was to different hardware.  I have used Ultrabac UBDR, Acronis, and System Center Virtual Machine Manager to create the image and place it on dissimilar hardware.

Sorry for your troubles!
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
OK, sorry for the late reply. Had firmware hickups.

After doing the restore and reinstalling drivers. It no longer crashed on the nvraid.sys file part of the boot up.

It is not crashing on nvatabus.sys
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
so what now?? is all works fine?
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
Sorry i meant it is NOW crashing on nvatabus.sys
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
what are symptoms ? is it blue screen?
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
It is a black screen. it crashes before it even makes it to the windows boot logo. Even tryingt to go into safe mode it crashes on that file load.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
follow my previous comment as try :

i have alternative idea ,i wish it will be good .. download the driver of RIAD from here :

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodTypeId=15351&prodSeriesId=3884319&prodNameId=3884320&swEnvOID=1005&swLang=8&mode=2&taskId=135&swItem=MTX-4c576b3ec8234efbbf901628b9

you need to have floppy disk , i know its silly but i think it will work , extract the drivers to floppy , then reboot your machine and boot from SBS bootable CD , the blue screen of windows setup will appear , in the progress when you see :
"Press F6 if you need to install a third-party SCSI or RAID driver"
press F6 - insert floppy disk , windows will install the RAID drivers , now continue to Recovery console , login and do nothing just type exit and reboot your machine , remove CD and floppy and tell me if its work , i think its best idea.

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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
I tired that before i posted.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
is there any message shown? how you know that crash because of  nvatabus.sys
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
The Message is:
"
Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corupt:
system32\drivers\nvatabus.sys

"
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
as silly step , am sorry for that .. try :
 F8 key to get to the Boot Menu. Choose last known good configuration
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
Tired that as well as safe mode. gives the same thing.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
can you boot your server using boot CD to recovery console and run the following commands ..

cd windows\system32\drivers
ren nvatabus.sys nvatabus.old

h: (or whatever the CD drive letter )
cd i386
expand nvatabus.sy_ c:\windows\system32\drivers\nvatabus.sys

and reboot again
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
I can you that wont work without even trying it. the nvatabus.sys is the chipset driver for the Nvidia nForce chipset. Which is not a item that found on the SBS install disks. Which was the chipset on the only machine.

So this comes back to the original question and my experience so far. The built in SBS Backup (ntbackup) files are completely worthless when restoring to a different server.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
last try we want to do is chat with hp :

http://www.hp.com/sbso/assist/chat.html

try and tell them the problem maybe the can help or even access your server remotely if its not out of warranty ,, just try , am thinking about other way , but may they can help
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
I've requested that this question be deleted for the following reason:

Nothing Helpful, problem not solved, seeking third party solution.
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
so what happened ??? did you talk to HP?? i think there is solution , just try
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
3rd party will not help.. am still insist that there is solution , and solution by preventing restore boot files from system state which caused the crash..
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Maen Abu-TabanjehNetwork Administrator, Network ConsultantCommented:
if you there , try this solution , boot from CD to recovery console , then run :

fixmbr
fixboot

then restart .. please do it , am not that one who fail..
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PyromanciAuthor Commented:
Others did not ever fully understand what was going on, or were no help. Located solution on my own.
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