How to Data and phone same cable connected to 66 block

I have network jacks and phone jacks in my house. The phone and data are usually on the same cat5 cable. They used brown and green as the data and blue and sometimes orange as phone. Each cable connects to a 66 block in my garage. I have a dsl modem/router and a wireless switch with 4 ports.
I can connect the modem to the incoming coax cable in the garage and get a signal. I can then take a cat5 cable and connect the modem to the switch. I am then trying create a cat5 cable with a rj45 on one end, which I would connect to the switch, and bare wires on the other end, which I would connect to the 66 block. The only signal I get at the switch is from the modem. What am I doing wrong? I really don't have any extra length on the cables connecting the house to the 66 block so I can't really cut anything.
stevek65Asked:
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Psy053Commented:
Sorry, I'm a bit lost.
Are you saying you are trying to connect ethernet devices to the switch over a single pair via your 66 Block?
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Dave BaldwinFixer of ProblemsCommented:
Here http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html is a diagram (the first one for T568A) that shows what colors should be on what pins on the RJ45s.  The Green (pins 1+2) and Orange (pins 3+6) pairs should be used for data.  If you have telephone on the Blue pair, it should not be connected to the network switch because there isn't any telephone function there and the high ringing voltage could cause problems.
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aleghartCommented:
Coaxial cable is used by cable companies.  ADSL is provided over a single pair of copper Cat3 wires.

Fast Ethernet requires two pairs of copper over Cat5.   IIRC, a 66 block is typically Cat3.

Ethernet and POTS (plain old telephone service) can't co-exist on the same cable.  POTS uses both DC and AC electricity.  Just try holding the wires when someone calls...enough to make you jump, and definitely good for network equipment.
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Dave BaldwinFixer of ProblemsCommented:
Combining phone and network on the same cable has been quite a bit apparently by people who figured they only had to pull one cable to each room that way.  I agree that it's a bad idea.
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aleghartCommented:
Same cable...yes.  I've done it.

Same wires...no.

No reason to punch down Fast Ethernet to a 66 block unless you have zero infrastructure except a fat trunk attached to that block.  Had to do that in an old warehouse, and reliability was poor.  Frequent re-boots and spotty performance, even for simple office work.  Ended up running a dedicated Cat5 cable to fix it.
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stevek65Author Commented:
The internet that is coming in is from the cable company via cable. Can I use brown and green for the data or does it have to be orange and green? If they are using orange and or blue, do I have to rewire the phone jacks to use brown? Can I connect cat5 cable/wire to a 66 block? According to the 66 block, they are using blue for the phone and brown and green for data all on the same cat5 cable. Can I just take a cat5 cable, terminate one end with a rj45 jack, wired straight connect it to a switch, then take the other end with bare wires and clip them onto the 66 block where the data wires are connected from the jack? Currently I have only the 4 wires from the cat5 cable, brown and green attached to the 66 block, and the other two wires from that cable are just hanging there.
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stevek65Author Commented:
This is what I am trying to do
66blockjpg.jpg
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Darr247Commented:
Looking down at the plug (as opposed to a jack) with the latch lever down and the opening towards you...

 1        2        3        4        5        6        7        8 
 w        g        w        e        e        b        e        e
 h        r        h        m        m        r        m        m
 /        e        /        p        p        o        p        p
 g        e        b        t        t        w        t        t
 r        n        r        y        y        n        y        y
 e                 o                   
 e                 w               
 n                 n                    

Open in new window


On the block, keep the twists in the green and brown pairs as close to the punchdowns as possible; at the plug, after preparing the wires trim them so that not more than 1/2'' (12mm) is untwisted.

Don't hook up the blue and orange pairs on either end. That's to protect the equipment (on both ends) in the future.

Mark the cable as "data only" and "non-standard" on both ends about 2'' from the end. If you don't have a dedicated wiring label maker, use a Sharpie (or even a P-touch is better than no labeling)... I sometimes mark where the other end is on long cable runs, but that might be overkill in this situation.

Note that this cable will never be able to get 1000 megabit (i.e. gigabit) speeds, and might not even give full 100 megabit speeds, but cable ISPs typically provide only 6 megabit bandwidth without paying extra, anyway.
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aleghartCommented:
Even 10BASE-T requires two twisted pairs of Cat3.

Is this an existing wiring job, or are you doing this yourself from scratch?

Some apartments and small offices are wired for a second phone line marked for "data", but are just another port for a dial-up modem.  They go to the 66 block so the telco can assign a separate binding post for a dedicated line, or so they can be put into a modem switch pool to share a smaller number of lines than 1-to-1.
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stevek65Author Commented:
Another question.
What if I have the cable modem in the house. Connect the coax cable to the modem and connect a cat5 straight cable from the modem to the rj45jack in the house. Then take another cat5 straight cable and connect it to the 66 block where that rj45 jack is connected and connect the other end of the cable to the uplink port of the switch??
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stevek65Author Commented:
This is existing wiring. If I had the choice I would put a cat5 cable for each data and each phone.
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aleghartCommented:
Is this a modular 66 block with Cat5e ports for 8P8C connectors?  Those are pretty new.  

You are saying "straight" cable to the 66 block.  It's only straight if there's an 8-conductor plug/jack on each end.

Sorry if I'm a bit confused.

This should be wired as follows:

coax -> cable modem
cable modem -> patch cable -> switch
66 block (Data1 = 4 wires) -> patch panel or modular 8P8C connector
   -> patch cable -> switch

You need two twisted pairs for each network drop.  in 10/100BASE-T, they are the send pair and receive pair.  For gigabit Ethernet you'll need all 4 pairs.

Were those "data" ports already marked from the old installation?  Did you trace them to POTS lines or a modem pool?  I don't see any way of getting Ethernet over a single pair of wires.
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stevek65Author Commented:
What I mean by straight is that it is not configured like a cross-over cable. I do not have a patch panel. The the cat5 cables are connecting directly from 66 block to the switch. Here is a pic like my 66 block.
blick-pic.jpg
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aleghartCommented:
So how are you going to get Ethernet or Fast Ethernet over a single pair of wires?
What exists at the plat on the wall?  Do you have all four pairs available on the "data" jack?
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stevek65Author Commented:
Some of the wall plates have 1 rj45, 1 rj11 jack and coax. The rj45 jack has green, green/white, brown, brown/white and the rj11 jack has blue, blue/white.
Some of the wall plates have 1 rj45 ,2 rj11 and 1 coax. The rj45 jacks have 4 wires connected, green, green/white, brown and brown white. One rj11 has blue and blue/white. One rj11 has orange, orange/white.
There is one jack in the living room that has 1 rj11 and 1 coax. I plan on on converting this rj11 to rj45 using green, green/white, brown, brown/white.
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Dave BaldwinFixer of ProblemsCommented:
You need to write down all your config/connection wiring.  On this page http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html , standard store-bought network cables are wired like the first diagram for T568A.  The wiring for the second diagram is for T568B.  The wiring you're describing isn't either one!  You will have to make sure that you make the cross-over connections from T568A at your switch to your 66-block correctly for your network to work.
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stevek65Author Commented:
I was told that I did not have to use cross-over connections.
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aleghartCommented:
I see.  Darr247's diagram makes sense.  1-2 and 3-6 are the pairs needed for 10/100BASE-T.  The standard colors are the green and orange pairs, so the "non-standard" label will (hopefully) prevent someone from putting the blue pair back into the mix...if it's carrying POTS, the AC spike on a ring (or even the 12VDC) could kill some of your equipement.

If it's only a minor inconvenience, I'd re-terminate the jacks at the wall plates to use the proper colors. See here.  Then use the other colors for phone.

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Dave BaldwinFixer of ProblemsCommented:
Since you are using "non-standard" wiring meaning wiring that is different from stand network cables... you were told wrong or at least misled.  "green, green/white, brown, brown/white" is not used for a single network connection in any cable or wiring that I have seen, used, or found documented.  Fortunately, modern network equipment will auto-detect which pairs are being used for transmit and receive.  If you make up your own cables, then you can put "green, green/white" on pins 1+2 and "brown, brown/white" on 3+6 and have it work.  That is still 'non-standard' wiring but it should work with standard network cables plugged into the wall jacks.
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stevek65Author Commented:
So, you are saying that is should work no matter what colors you use.
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Dave BaldwinFixer of ProblemsCommented:
Not exactly, I'm saying if you wired the internal cables as I described, it should work without worrying about cross-overs.  You will have to either make special cables to connect to your switch or cross-wire the cables to get them to work because Standard connections at the switch are wired differently than the wiring you have described.
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stevek65Author Commented:
So then, what is the standard colors for phone lines and data lines?
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aleghartCommented:
Data
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568

AFAIK, there are no standard colors for mixing phone and data.  You wire up the pairs 1-2 & 3-6 with standard 568A or 568B color scheme, then use the remaining pairs for phone or PBX, or another 10BASE-T jack.

I've seen installation using the blue pair as Line1 and orange pair for Line2 POTS because they already line up with the proper positions in the T568A color scheme.  An 8P8C jack (called RJ-45) accepts a 1-line or 2-line phone plug  (RJ-11 or RJ-14).
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aleghartCommented:
edit:

 _only_ because they already line up with the proper...

Not because there's a differenct which pair is used.  Any of the twist geometries would work for POTS.
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stevek65Author Commented:
So, again I ask. Does it matter which colors you use for data or phone, as long as you use the color with its corresponding white wire? Does each set have the same twists?
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aleghartCommented:
>Does it matter which colors you use for data or phone
From a practical standpoint in your own home, no.  As long as you keep track of it.

>Does each set have the same twists?
No.  Each color has a different twist geometry.  That will matter in long runs when your using more than 100BASE-T.  Especially if you use Cat5 for video distribution.  The signals for each color arrive at slightly different times because the wire length is different.  More twists = longer path.
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stevek65Author Commented:
My plan is to be able to stream video to my blue ray player from a network hard drive.
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aleghartCommented:
100BASE-T should be sufficient.  Bandwidth would be between 5-20Mbps.
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Dave BaldwinFixer of ProblemsCommented:
The Standard colors for RJ45 plugs are shown in the links we have posted.  I agree with @aleghart, the colors don't matter as long as you keep track of them.  The pin connections Do matter which was what I was trying to point out.
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stevek65Author Commented:
I can't for some reason get good contacts on the 66 block with the patchcords. I am really beginning to think that if you want a network, you do not want to use a 66 block. On the 66 block there are 4 columns. I assume the first two are connected together and the last two are connected together. Do the second and third columns cut into the wire?? That is where I am attaching the patch cables that are connecting to the switch.
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aleghartCommented:
Patch cables are made with stranded wire.  You must use solid wire to punch down.

A 66 or 110 block is for infrastructure, so it's expected to use solid wire 22 or 24 AWG.

You also need a punchdown tool (spring-loaded) to properly push the wire into the clips.

If you have solid wire already connected to the block (from the wiring run in the wall), you can use a modular 66 block adapter to give you an RJ-45 port.  They run $12-20 each.

You _can_ make custom patch cables with solid wire.  They aren't flexible, but they are relatively inexpensive when you already have the material laying around.
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aleghartCommented:
^ short answer:  Solid cable, not stranded.  Punch down with cutting tip, not wrapping or pushing with a screwdriver.
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stevek65Author Commented:
If I purchase some solid wire cat5, how do I know that it is solid wire.
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aleghartCommented:
Says "solid core".  Otherwise, says "stranded core".  Most Cat5e/Cat6 is 24AWG.  You can still find some 22AWG, but you pay for the extra copper.
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Dave BaldwinFixer of ProblemsCommented:
I would not choose to use a 66 or 110 block for Ethernet network connections.
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stevek65Author Commented:
What would you use to connect an ethernet connection while leaving the wires for the phone on the 66 block?
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Darr247Commented:
Working backwards...

stevek65 said,
> Do the second and third columns cut into the wire??

Attached is a cross-section of a 66Block, which makes it easy to see which pins are connected. So that means the jumper clips on the 66Block in the picture you posted are to connect one side to the other.


stevek65 said,
> There is one jack in the living room that has 1 rj11 and 1 coax. I plan on on
converting this rj11 to rj45 using green, green/white, brown, brown/white.

On any of the locations where you no longer need a phone base (I recommend leaving at least 1 on each floor), I would wire keystone jacks which should snap into the existing plates, as "standard" (568A or 568B - take your pick), and in the garage remove their wires from the 66Block, trim back to where the twists are still intact, and put jacks on them, too (using the same standard as the other end). Then connect patch cords from those jacks to your 4 port switch (I'm assuming you're talking about the 4-port switch typically included on a wireless router). The cable modem should connect to the WAN/Internet port on the router. You can add an 8-port switch later if you need more than those 4 network attachment points (that would give you up to 10, after minusing the switch ports used to connect the 2). Doing it like that would give you gigabit capabilities, too, when you're ready to upgrade.

There is no "uplink" port on modern switches, by the way... an "uplink" port was formerly provided to connect it to a 'regular' port on another hub/switch in lieu of using a crossover cable. As others have noted, about any switch made in the last 10 years have Auto-MDIX ports, meaning any of them can be used to daisy-chain to another switch with no crossover cable needed.


Also attached is an example of keeping the twists intact to as near the punchdowns as possible, if that's the route you choose to go.
66Block-Cross-section.jpg
66Block-CloseTwists.png
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stevek65Author Commented:
Darr 247,

 Can you tell me what you would do in the case that I need phone and data on one cat5 cable?
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Darr247Commented:
Unless you want to redo all the terminations at some point, you're kind of stuck with using brown and green for data, and the blue for phone. Performance will not be optimal, but it should be adequate, and I would not start using the correct green/orange pairs for data unless I was going to commit to switching them all. Otherwise it will be a nightmare to work on... right now all you have to do is remember to swap orange and brown in standard wiring diagrams.

If that's not what you meant, I'm not sure what you're asking...  you should have only 1 jack connected to the cable on the other end from the 66Block, ergo only 1 device connected to that jack, so you can have both types of wiring in the same cat5e cable, but you should not be using them both at the same time... at least not from the descriptions of the combo plates you've previously given.


If you want to switch some of the cables to data-only, attach the wires to jacks on both ends using one of the standards (568A or 568B) and bypass the 66Block; if you decide to continue using the 66Block, make 3 or 4 cables long enough to go from the switch to the 66Block using the pinout I gave in Msg# 37309220 and punch them down on the other side of the 'U' (see cross-section picture) from their matching green and brown pair wires.

In my opinion, even though 66 and 110 Block terminations are not intended for data, the only way using the 66Block probably wouldn't work at all is if whoever wired the existing wall jacks started with green instead of the white-striped-green. Auto-MDIX will correct the pairs being on the wrong pins (i.e. it will swap the TX for RX pair and vice-versa), but as far as I know it won't swap the solid colors with the striped colors (that would be swapping TX+ for TX-, and RX+ for RX-). But, fortunately, every RJ45 jack I've ever seen has had the 568A/568B color codes printed on them (most just take the wires as straight pairs without needing excessive separation, and put them into 568A/B order with printed circuit traces between the punchdowns and pins), so they should have started with the striped wire even if we attribute the orange/brown mixup to a spectral perception deficiency with the original installer.
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stevek65Author Commented:
This is what I had to do to make it work. I had to actually use the green and orange pair for data. I connected the rj45 jacks in the house with the green and orange and at the 66 block.
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