Do Men make more than women when all factors are equal?

I have read several conflicting documents as of late in reference to the subject of this thread.  I'm looking for more info on this especially any links to legitimate studies that were done.

I'm sure everyone will admit that the average woman makes less than the average man due to the job choices.  There are far more men in the technical field than women, so this is an example of why men on average get paid more on average.  What I am looking for is information on people in the same position with the same experience being paid differently.  I have seen people claim that women still make a lot less even in the same positions, but these people who claim this have not backed it up with any sort of statistics other than just general statistics like "women in the medical field make less than men  in the medical field".  Well duh, more men are doctors and more women are nurses.  Of course.

For this question I do not want opinions on the matter.  I want research and links.  I'm not saying you need to research it, I'm trying to see if anyone has legitimate studies I can reference about this.

Again my question is When all factors are even (experience, education, position, etc) do women make less money than men?

*No this isn't for any sort of assignment.  This is simply my curiosity*
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The latest edition of Visual Studio magazine says that, on average, women make $11,000 less in the same programming position than men. I believe they included more info and statistics in the study. Pick up a copy.
CCSOFlagAuthor Commented:
I actually get that.  Hadn't taken a look until you posted.  I see where it says average salary for men vs women, but I don't see anything that references the factors they took or didn't take into consideration (years experiences, years with current company, education, etc).
Oh well, it was worth a shot. I just glanced through the issue and was hoping there were more background stats available.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
That would be a pretty in depth study for all those figures.

I would think honestly that the answer is that one that people hate to hear: it depends.

Certain positions there are people that are going to be paid a specific amount no matter man or woman. Most entry level jobs will be here as well as certain service industries.

In many professional jobs or where promotions come into play is where I would think there is more of a disparity between pay grades due to the human nature of evaluating a person and intended or unintended gender factors weighing in.

One place where it all evens out is a sales position based on commission or bonus. If the structure is same for all in the sales team, then nothing but performance matters.
You hit the nail on the head when you said "nothing but performance matters". I find it deplorable that women make less than men when everything is equal (expertise, knowledge, years in the field, etc). But it happens.

Years ago before I when into strictly programming, I managed CAD/CAM departments. My best designer was a woman, so I made sure her pay was more than my male designers. It's like anything pay for quality. Gender shouldn't matter.
It depends in the type job.
If you only refer to computer related jobs, then my apologies.
Female delivery persons make more than men.
Female real estate agents make more than men.
Female taxi drivers make more.
Female airline stewardess's make the same as stewards.
Female postal delivery persons make the same.

In many job types, seniority can affect wages, and not performance.
there was an article in Time magazine a while ago:,8599,1983185,00.html
and a very good article in the Guardian newspaper:

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CCSOFlagAuthor Commented:
Do you have research, links, anything to support your claims?

Thanks for the links.  Some of the data is quite old, but I still wonder about more of the data behind it though.  Even so there were several positions where women made more than men.  Because of this, I just don't see it being so black and white that women are discriminated against nearly as much as it's led on.  It just sounds more plausible that life choices are involved in all of this.

Thanks I'll have to look into that book.  Sounds like something that would give more info on the subject.

Will wait longer to see if people have more info on it.  Again, please only post actual research (links, books, etc), otherwise from my standpoint it's pure speculation.  Thanks.
I have recently researched it! Answer: Probably NOT!

Headline #1: "It costs WOMEN @ $600/week just to be a WOMAN!"

Headline #2: "It costs MEN @ $600/wk to act like WOMEN do!"


1. People make choices and decisions at work that LIMIT their value to employers, thus LIMIT their raises & promotions! Male/Female: doesn't matter!

2. WHAT "choices and decisions?" Basically, they boil down to starting wages/salary, tenaciousness and flexibility. E.G.:

- If one ACCEPTS a LOWER starting wage/salary than a more tenacious one, EVEN IF EVERYONE is THEN treated fairly, once-hired, wage gaps emerge/grow!

- If one DECLINES overtime, or a promotion that requires re-locating, or special projects.... one becomes less flexible, thus less valuable to many employers!

3. The SAME is true for BOTH Men & Women! That's an important insight!

But, since Women still endure the bulk of child-care/home-care, Women still Do/Decide things that limit their perceived flexibility (thus value) more than men do.

4. Our most troublesome finding was M/F Starting-Salary differences among equally-skilled, equally-educated New Hires.

- Assuming equal-treatment once-hired, such differences GROW!

- Do women ask for less? Accept less? Negotiate less tenaciously? Dunno.

- Or do those who hire (mostly men) offer women less ("men are the breadwinners," "women will maternity-leave," "women will stay home to care for kids"......).

Dunno. Interesting research.

But I do know: Folks (men & women) make decisions at work that limit their progress. And women make more of those decisions than men do (societal). And the "cost" of those decisions compound over time: $600/wk, or much, much more!

CCSOFlagAuthor Commented:

Warren Farrel did a presentation.  In the middle of watching it.  Seems to have some good info in it according to the research he did for his book.
so CCSOFlag, when we gonna see you back in the lounge?
CCSOFlagAuthor Commented:
heh, Yea sorry, need to head over there.  The little time I have had on the forums, I've been posting on some threads. :(  I'll see if I can poke my head in this week. :D
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