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Obamacare x 2?

Posted on 2012-03-14
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Last Modified: 2012-03-22
Obama 2009:
Now, add it all up, and the plan I'm proposing will cost around $900 billion over 10 years


CBO 2012:
President Obama's national health care law will cost $1.76 trillion over a decade, according to a new projection released today by the Congressional Budget Office


What the *&^% happened?
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Question by:carsRST
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26 Comments
 
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by:Ess Kay
ID: 37720044
they found out how to line their pockets better
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Anthony Russo earned 15 total points
ID: 37720764
Have you ever heard of a government plan that didn't cost more than the estimated amount? Only double the estimate is actually good for Washington I believe.
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by:dhsindy
dhsindy earned 8 total points
ID: 37721152
A trillion doesn't seem like much after you have spent 4 or 5 of them, already.
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by:Ess Kay
Ess Kay earned 9 total points
ID: 37721174
I love the bailout program, one guy got 40 million bailout for his 'private airport' in his backyard which could only hold one plane in the middle of nowhere

I have an even smaller airport, I could surely use some of that trillion for expansion
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by:beetos
ID: 37721622
Must be the contraceptives.
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by:Tymetwister
Tymetwister earned 9 total points
ID: 37723788
As Anthony pointed out, it always costs more than initially proposed. Hell, look at the Iraq war. It was supposed to go on for less than a year, and were we are going on almost 10 years.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37724310
>>Have you ever heard of a government plan that didn't cost more than the estimated amount?

>>As Anthony pointed out, it always costs more than initially proposed.


It hasn't even been implemented yet.  Comments don't make sense.

Democrats employed many accounting tricks when they were pushing through the national health care legislation, the most egregious of which was to delay full implementation of the law until 2014,



CBO:
Four million Americans can expect to lose their employer-provided healthcare by 2016
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by:Tymetwister
ID: 37724354
Obamacare hasn't been implemented yet?

http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/19/the-obamacare-implementation-gauntlet

Or did you not hear Joe Biden say, "This is a big f***ing deal?"
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37724634
>>It hasn't even been implemented yet.  Comments don't make sense.

Conservatives need to pick a story. First you claim that healthcare has gone up because of Obamacare and doctors are suffering and service is down so it has been a failure.

Now you say it isn't even implemented yet? So then all the other factors have nothing to do with Obamacare if it isn't implemented yet. Or it is implemented.

You can't have both. Pick one.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37724664
>>Now you say it isn't even implemented yet?


Democrats employed many accounting tricks when they were pushing through the national health care legislation, the most egregious of which was to delay full implementation of the law until 2014


The law says it, not conservatives.

The question is what changed in the estimate from then till now?  Or did anything change?
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37724702
Again, if it isn't implemented, then where is the basis for all the conservative complaints about the effect Obamacare has already had on the healthcare industry like doctors suffering, higher premiums, less service.

These must not be due to Obamacare since it isn't implemented.

>>The question is what changed in the estimate from then till now?  Or did anything change?

This is the government we are talking about. Democrats and Republicans the same will fudge numbers. Remember the $60,000 light bulbs and crap. That's a weak argument man. Shady accounting goes across to all politicians.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37724752
>>This is the government we are talking about.

Incorrect.  These are tax payers you're talking about.  Here's a little more perspective on what Obamacare does per person.


Per Tax Payer:
 $1,760,000,000,000.00 / 140,494,127
= $12,527.21  per person


Per Tax Payer that actually Pays:
 $1,760,000,000,000.00 / 70,247,064
 = $25,054.43 per person



http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/index.html
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37725490
>>These are tax payers you're talking about.  Here's a little more perspective on what Obamacare does per person.

I'm well aware that it's taxpayers money. What I was referring to is the shady accounting tricks. Don't even try to say only dems do it. Repubs do as well.

And do me a favor and figure out that per person thing with the defense budget that is way out of proportion?

Then try it for NASA which should get more and is only getting half a %. Knock 1% of the insane defense budget and give it to NASA so you would double their funding and we could get back to the moon and on to Mars finally.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37725702
>>I'm well aware that it's taxpayers money. What I was referring to is the shady accounting tricks. Don't even try to say only dems do it. Repubs do as well.


Congratulations to Obama.  He's spent/wasted so much money that a trillion no longer seems like a lot.  Here we have nearly $2 trillion in new, wasted spending and liberals are able shrug it off and compare it to light bulbs...and birth control pills.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37725767
>>Congratulations to Obama.  He's spent/wasted so much money that a trillion no longer seems like a lot  Here we have nearly $2 trillion in new, wasted spending and liberals are able shrug it off and compare it to light bulbs.

Did I compare a trillion dollars to a light bulb, or did I compare dirty accounting tricks to writing off a light bulb for $60,000. Maybe you should read it again?

And another thing:

Billion dollars and Trillion dollars are the same thing to the average person, incomprehensible and just numbers that come out of the government all the time. Nobody cares about a billion or trillion. Or even 500 billion or 500 trillion. These are numbers that the average person just figures is up in the realms of government figures.

Especially when the defense budget is half our spending and more than every other country on the planet combined. All the rest of this seems minuscule. That's why the spending argument that conservatives harp on constantly about Obama is not going to help them win. People don't care and don't realize the repercussions of it.

The government just prints more money is the average reasoning.
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by:Ess Kay
ID: 37725886
by the way, government technically does not print money.

That is the Federal Reserve which is a private company (bank) owned by many other banks including JPmorgan (rockefeller)
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by:Ess Kay
ID: 37725970
maybe this article can shed some light on who writes these plans, and where the money goes afterwords


http://educate-yourself.org/ga/RF3chap1976.shtml





By the way, going off tangent, remember the bailout?

some of the biggest banks got bailed out right?
who prints the money? the fed -->which is owned by some of these big banks.
basically, they print the money, loan it to the US govt who in turn bails them out putting USA more in debt to them.


who funds the political campains for the main runners?
oil companies, banks and  medical manufacturers.
Guess who has the biggest steak in all of them



If you want to know who owns or influences almost ALL of these companies, read the article above, you will see why these number are sketchier and sketchier every day
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by:Ess Kay
ID: 37725995
arnold buffet rothschild


Here is Arnold and Buffet with their puppeteer
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by:beetos
ID: 37726181
My gosh Cars - are you now saying the CBO is accurate and unbiased?   Will you go on record saying that for future debates?
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by:carsRST
ID: 37726550
>>who funds the political campains for the main runners?

See super pacs.  The community organizer said he wouldn't use them but, like all his promises, that went with the wind.


>>My gosh Cars - are you now saying the CBO is accurate and unbiased?   Will you go on record saying that for future debates?

CBO scores the garbage info given to them.  They scored the lies Obama fed them.  This projection is still probably low, and we'll find out later just how much so.
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by:beetos
beetos earned 9 total points
ID: 37726736
Cars,

If you're saying we can't trust CBO numbers, you shouldn't be using them to bolster your argument.

Just like saying Obamacare is causing all these issues, yet it hasn't been implemented.  

It's the same thing with O'Reilly,  Beck, etc. who are sometimes  journalists and sometimes  entertainers, depending on which rules they'd like to apply to themselves at the moment.

Or the Palin's complaining about Hollywood after they've had 3 reality shows.  

You can't have it both ways.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37727195
>>If you're saying we can't trust CBO number

They always under estimate.  Given the costs have doubled, we can extrapolate that the CBO was given blatantly false information to sell the crap pile to the American people.



>>Just like saying Obamacare is causing all these issues, yet it hasn't been implemented.

Apparently labor unions, who favor Obama, don't like the law.
Labor unions continued to receive the overwhelming majority of waivers from the president’s health care reform
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by:beetos
ID: 37727209
Random facts do not a lucid argument make, so your labor union comment is completely irrelevant.

Meanwhile, who gave the CBO the new numbers?  How can you be so sure you can trust them now?
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by:carsRST
ID: 37727217
>>How can you be so sure you can trust them now?

I don't.  But we can probably multiply by 2 and get the real answer.

This is community organizing 101.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37727464
Cars, you keep piling on the random facts and links but you have not once defended having two positions at the same time which is the standard political way.

Did Obamacare mess up healthcare, or has it not been implemented yet?

Pick one.

If you use CBO numbers as facts then don't say they are false.

Pick one.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37730245
>>If you use CBO numbers as facts then don't say they are false.

Correct.  They are wrong.  They're ALWAYS lower than what reality is.  So you can take their estimate and double it.



>>Did Obamacare mess up healthcare, or has it not been implemented yet?

Both.







1.  See AARP...
AARP’s...is telling its employees their insurance costs will rise...as a result of the law.

(MULTIPLY THIS TIMES TWO)
2.  CBO:
Obamacare Could Make 20 Million People Lose Employer Based Insurance


3.  Firms to cut health plans as reform starts: survey
Once provisions of the Affordable Care Act start to kick in during 2014, at least three of every 10 employers will probably stop offering health coverage, a survey released Monday shows.


4.  US News: 6 Pages of Obamacare Equals 429 Pages of Regulations
Giving proof to Main Street's worries that President Obama's healthcare reform will lead to thousands of new and costly regulations,


5.  US News: Healthcare Reform Law Requires New IRS Army Of 1,054
The Internal Revenue Service says it will need an battalion of 1,054 new auditors and staffers and new facilities at a cost to taxpayers of more than $359 million in fiscal 2012


(MULTIPLY TIMES 2)
6.  CBO Director:
Obamacare Would Reduce Employment by 800,000 Workers
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