Solved

Design XenApp 6.5

Posted on 2012-03-28
16
1,407 Views
Last Modified: 2016-10-25
We have decided to install XA 6.5 Environment , in additioon we have the NetScaler as well.

We will be installing around 100-200 Applications in all and serve around 1200 users.
I have been given 12 Virtual servers in all (All virtual 4-8GB Ram , Goo 2 - 4 Processors) to create a fully redundant environment.

As i checked documnetation online , I decided on this: to dedicated Data Controllers that will have XML service as well (1 will be backup for another) -- No Applications installed on them.

2 Web Interface Servers -- Netscaler Load Balancing them for redundency

8 Session-Only mode servers - taht will have applications installed in a distributed manner.

My Questions are:

Do i really need to have dedicated Data Controllers or shall i install some applications on them. Or is that in XA 6.5 DC's Are only Dedicated ones .

Am i using Too Many servers -- can I install Web Interface Servers with the Data collectors -- What Impact will that have.. This is my main Question

We also have license foe EdgeSight  -- do i need a separate server for Edgesight or can i club it with any of the above mentioned.


We have 2 Sites separated by 5MB Link -- do we need to keep Web Interface Server and applications Session-Only Mode servsrs  in each location .
0
Comment
Question by:MOQINFRA
  • 6
  • 5
  • 4
  • +1
16 Comments
 
LVL 7

Expert Comment

by:Jayanta Sarmah
ID: 37776130
Do i really need to have dedicated Data Controllers or shall i install some applications on them. --> No Need for a dedicated DC you can have application on them

Am i using Too Many servers -- can I install Web Interface Servers with the Data collectors - NO,

 We also have license foe EdgeSight  -- do i need a separate server for Edgesight or can i club it with any of the above mentioned.--> Seperate server for edgesight  also datastores will be different  for XA and edgesights

We have 2 Sites separated by 5MB Link -- do we need to keep Web Interface Server and applications Session-Only Mode servsrs  in each location --> Suugested as per best practices

Hope this is a liltle help
0
 
LVL 23

Accepted Solution

by:
Ayman Bakr earned 250 total points
ID: 37776896
I wouldn't recommend you to host applications on Data Collectors. My advise would be to keep them dedicated.

Are you using too many servers? This is a question you only can answer. It all depends on the load the applications used will have on the servers. You can utilize the Edgesight for load testing to determine whether the number of servers is enough, too many or more is needed. Nothing would stop you from clubbing the web interface with the XenApp servers, but again sparing your XenApp for session hosting would be best practice. If these become loaded the web interface might get very slow in serving additional users.

You can have your Edgesight server clubbed with the web interface server. The web interface server is light-weight and can handle about 9 users per second.

Are your number of users equal in both sites? Is your data available in both sites? What is the extent of latency you experience between the sites over the 5MB link if any? If your answer is yes to these questions then it is best to have two zones where you will have equal amount of XenApps in each site in addition to two web interface servers in each site (for redundancy).
0
 
LVL 31

Assisted Solution

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
Cláudio Rodrigues earned 250 total points
ID: 37777566
I would say for every single Citrix component, install them alone.
That is the beauty of virtualization. You can have as many VMs as you need easily. Also many of these components do NOT use many resources at all.
What I personally would do:
1. Do NOT use Web Interface. As you are aware of, 5.4 is the last release we will ever see. StoreFront/CloudGateway is the way to go moving forward and the only thing that will be supported down the road. Use two of them and load balance using the NS.
2. EdgeSight Server: Should be installed alone, and again for redundancy, two of them.
3. Yes, use dedicated ZDCs. Two of them, with both roles on them (Controller/SH) but do NOT load any apps on them. Leave them alone.
4. Where is PVS on your project? It should be used, trust me on that. This will give you the ability to have a single image for all XenApp SH boxes. Much easier to manage and to add more servers if needed.
5. XA 6.5 is 64-bit and therefore I would strongly recommend the XA VMs to have 16GB RAM. 8GB is too constrained given the 64-bit overhead.
6. You did not mention ESLT. How can you determine how many users per VM you can have if you are not using ESLT and performing load testing? A must to do IMHO and one of the main reasons why I am called all the time to fix bad Citrix architectures, that promised the world and were not able to deliver.
7. Application Virtualization: not mentioned either. With 2008 R2 RDS CALs App-V is included. Why not consider using it? Simplifies the PVS image even further.
8. Merchandising Server 2.2. Have you look at it? How do you intend to manage the Citrix Receiver/Plugins?
9. Citrix Licensing: one VM for this, one standby clone of it somewhere (same name, IP, etc but just offline) so in case of failure you are ready to go. Not really a big deal as the grace period is 720 hours BUT if PVS is used that is not the case...
10. The decision between two sites or a single one really gets down to where the data the XA boxes will access is. That means if there is an email client in use, files in a file server, etc, are these at a single location or both locations have their own? This will give you the answer you are looking for, if you need XAs on both places or not.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Microsoft MVP - RDS
Citrix CTP
0
 

Author Comment

by:MOQINFRA
ID: 37777700
Thanks for the details, It is really helpful.

We are going to utilize provisioning server,CMS and APP-V as well , But firstly we want to get the basic environmnet ready so that our users have apps ready for delivery.

I would currently want to use Web Interface 5.4 as i am very new to Citrix and need to be efficient enough on what has been there for years as i cant walk the untraden ways yet.

Little bit more about environment:

We have 2 location , 1st has most of our users around 1000 and 2nd one have around 200 ..Connection between the 2 is 5MB not much latent.

Most of the applications are in Site 1 ..however we have fileservers etc replicated to Location 2 as well..

 If we install couple of servers in site 2 and host the applications like Office Adobe etc on them , then can we use some policy that if the users frol site 2 wants to access these apps they get it from servers in site 2 .. In this way we mitigate using 2 zones and instead have 1 ..What would be a better design..

also when we have 2 WI servers in site 1 ..the users from site 2 will have to access them through NetScaler..Do you recommend having 1 WI server at each location. Or 2 WI servers close to DC's in Site 1 .

One Last thing... Yes Or NO to -- whether we can have DC,XML and WI roles on single server --Any Reasons why or why not
0
 
LVL 31

Expert Comment

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 37777752
With Worker Groups and Preferred Load Balancing you can have it working in a way that users on Site 1 always get their apps from Site 1 BUT if Site 1 is down for some reason they go automatically to site 2 (and you would do the same for Site 2 users but have them always on Site 2 unless it is down).
I would have WIs on each location.
And finally, no, do not mix roles. The reason is if a patch is released to fix something and it breaks something else you affect all roles. If you split you may affect a single one and not the whole thing.
I strongly recommend you taking a look at StoreFront/CloudGateway. It is simple and is not end of life as WI is.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Microsoft MVP - RDS
Citrix CTP
0
 

Author Comment

by:MOQINFRA
ID: 37777888
do you have any personal document for storefornt /cloudgateway ..i mean a easy to understand blog or something ..not citrix official doc
0
 
LVL 23

Expert Comment

by:Ayman Bakr
ID: 37777931
Another reason for not mixing roles, is if one gets too much loaded at a peak time it might adversely affect the other role especially if it is one of the infrastructure citrix servers.
0
 
LVL 31

Expert Comment

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 37777970
http://blogs.citrix.com/2011/11/10/cloudgateway-express-installation-and-configuration/

Looking at the whole thing I would say start with WI for now as it will be really easy down the road to create a VM with CloudGateway Express and switch from WI.
WI is old, proven and works. CGExpress is new and everything new with Citrix usually means crap.
That said, I do recommend you go through the exercise of testing/installing it so you are pretty much ready to go when time comes.

Cheers.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Microsoft MVP - RDS
Citrix CTP
0
Netscaler Common Configuration How To guides

If you use NetScaler you will want to see these guides. The NetScaler How To Guides show administrators how to get NetScaler up and configured by providing instructions for common scenarios and some not so common ones.

 

Author Comment

by:MOQINFRA
ID: 37778090
So for now here is what according to all your suggestions i would think we will go for..

2 dedicated Data collectors (1 primary 1 Backup) Which will host XML services as i read somewhere it is good to keep XML broker on Controllers at site 1 -- No apps installed on these 2.
Q: Do netscaler load balances Data collectors or normal load evalators will do the Job.

2 dedicated Web Interface Servers both at Site 1 and Load Balanced by NetScaler

Q:I am not installing Web Interface server is Site 2 -- Am i doing Wrong or i can keep a 3rd WI server there But How will taht help my users as they will come across the Link Through netscaler .. -- not sure

1 dedicated EdgeSight Server
1 PVS server
CMS Appliance

4 Application servers to begin with session-only mode

Q:Since i intend to implement PVS  -- i will see the way to deploy just 1 application server first and use Provisioning to make clones or whatever PVS does and then deploy the rest 3 instantly and keep adding at will.

Datastore will be hosted on an already existing SQL server 2008 SP2 (Which is also used by SCCM) --

Q:Will there be a way to migrate the Datastore once i get a dedicated SQL server for Citrix or do i not need it in my environment as we expect only to have 200 Concurrent users   users and 200 applications and at most 10 servers hosting apps

In Site 2 We will have 2 application Servers Session-only mode which will host the apps locally for site 2 (Apps which are locally present there)

i wish i could change the points to 2000 for this Post as everyone has been so helpful.
0
 
LVL 23

Expert Comment

by:Ayman Bakr
ID: 37778230
One zone uses one data collector only. The other is a backup. There is no need to balance the data collectors. When there is a problem an election will occur and the backup becomes the new data collector. I would recommend the backup data collector to be in the other site - in case one site goes down your whole environment will still remain up as the backup gets elected to become the main data collector. And yes it is recommended to have the XML brokers the same as your Data Collectors to eliminate the additional communication that needs to happen between them.

As for the web interface - I would prefer at least one more web interface to be available in the second site should site 1 go down your users in site 2 can still access the environment. You can choose not to load balance the third WI and provide site 2 users with a different URL (however, it will refer to the same XML-DC servers). In this case site 1 users will consult load balanced WI in site 1 and site 2 users will consult the WI in site 2.

With PVS you install the OS and XenApp on a VM which is named as the master target device. This happens in private (write) mode. Once the installation and fine tuning finishes you will switch it to standard (read-only) mode and assign it to all your VMs. So next time you boot them up they all get the streamed image from PVS. Your master target device can be any of the VMs in private mode, but then you will switch it off, turn the image to standard and then stream it to all the VMs including your original VM that was used to build the image.

I am not sure about the datasotre. From what I know the datastore uses the Host name it self once installed. This makes it if not impossible so complex to migrate to another server.
0
 
LVL 31

Expert Comment

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 37778293
From http://support.citrix.com/article/CTX123111

Migrating the Database to the Same Version such as SQL 2005 to SQL 2008Migrating from one database version to the other might be necessary to move the data store to a more powerful server. The best method for migrating between versions of the database is to back up and restore the database using the utilities provided by the database software vendor.

To point a Presentation Server farm to a new database complete the following steps. For the best performance, complete this procedure on the data collectors after all other servers are reconfigured.

Back up the existing farm database and restore the database to the new server.
Create a new DSN file that points to the restored database.
Run the dsmaint config command on the server with the new DSN file.
Stop and restart the IMA Service.

Important: Restarting the IMA Service instead of restarting the server might cause the SNMP service to initiate Dr. Watson if SNMP is enabled. This error is benign.
Ensure that the server is pointing to the new data store by checking the following registry setting:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Citrix\IMA\DataSourceName
If the IMA Service started successfully, copy the new DSN file to all servers in the farm.
Run the dsmaint config command to change the IMA Service configuration on all remaining servers in the farm.
Stop and restart the IMA Service on all servers in the farm.
Tip: You can execute Steps 6 through 8 on all the servers from a simple batch file placed in a central location.

I know this article is old but should work with any known XenApp.
Also make sure you have two PVSs as if one goes kaboom you are in deep s***.
And try to stick to BDM on PVS (meaning do NOT use TFTP/PXE).

Next time get a consultant instead of EE for design questions like that. :-)

Cláudio Rodrigues
Microsoft MVP - RDS
Citrix CTP
0
 

Author Comment

by:MOQINFRA
ID: 37778362
Thank You so much for all your comments and help.. It was exceptional..  I hope citrix support is as good as EE as my only experience on a case with them has not be good
0
 

Author Closing Comment

by:MOQINFRA
ID: 37778385
This was wonderful.. thank you ..I hope i can give each answer a 500 Points.

<Shakes Everyones Hand>

Thank you

I am not sure if i can do this deployment successfully or not..But all the help i got here is exceptional.

Thank you all
0
 
LVL 31

Expert Comment

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 37778436
Down the road if you need help you know where to find me.

Cheers.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Microsoft MVP - RDS
Citrix CTP
0
 

Author Comment

by:MOQINFRA
ID: 37778476
i know it now
0
 
LVL 23

Expert Comment

by:Ayman Bakr
ID: 37778723
It was my pleasure ;)
0

Join & Write a Comment

#CITRIX #XENDESKTOP #POC #Citrix Studio
#Citrix #Citrix Policies #XenDesktop #VDI #POC #Citrix Univeral Printer Driver #Citrix UPD
How to install and configure Citrix XenApp 6.5 - Part 1. In this video tutorial we have explained step by step installation of Citrix XenApp 6.5 Server on Windows Server 2008 R2 is explained in this video. We have explained the difference between…
This demo shows you how to set up the containerized NetScaler CPX with NetScaler Management and Analytics System in a non-routable Mesos/Marathon environment for use with Micro-Services applications.

706 members asked questions and received personalized solutions in the past 7 days.

Join the community of 500,000 technology professionals and ask your questions.

Join & Ask a Question

Need Help in Real-Time?

Connect with top rated Experts

19 Experts available now in Live!

Get 1:1 Help Now