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Are Republicans' attempts to implement tighter voter ID laws too stringent or unnecessary?

Posted on 2012-03-28
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Are Republicans' attempts to implement tighter voter ID laws too stringent or unnecessary?  

I've seen a comment in this Politics Zone that not all citizens should be allowed to vote.  For example, "Deadbeats, losers, leeches should sit home on election day until the point they contribute."  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but denying the vote to some citizens is a slippery slope, IMO.

See GOP makes a phony case for voter ID law
"Republican-dominated statehouses are rushing to pass beefed-up voter ID legislation ahead of the November presidential election. Republican governors are rushing to sign them while droning, in solemn tones, that "voter integrity" is at stake."
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/tony-norman/gop-makes-a-phony-case-for-voter-id-law-358920/?p=1
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Question by:WaterStreet
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by:n2fc
ID: 37779083
Ever since the "Patriot Act" it has become necessary to "prove" citizenship & identity for a multitude of gov't services, especially Driver's Licenses but also for opening of accounts with private concerns like Banks & Utility companies.

Given that level of gov't intervention, to expect any LESS for the franchise is ludicrous!

Personally, now that most voting booths are computerized anyway, I would just as soon add a 10 question multiple choice quiz (taken from the US Citizenship Exam) prior to allowing the casting of any ballot.   Get less than 8 correct and the buzzer sounds:  "eeeehhhhh" and you get bounced until next year!  Thanks for playing, better luck next time!

With so many of our RIGHTS being sold back to us as PRIVILEGES, why is voting still taken for granted?
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by:carsRST
ID: 37779120
Let's be honest.  Democrats need voter fraud to win elections.  Left wing group, ACORN, who had Obama as an attorney at one time, has made a living out of voter fraud - that's what they do to help Democrats win.

Many states have made it painless to get an ID.  Still not good enough for Democrats.  

One needs an ID to get in to the movie, to buy a beer, to do a lot of things.  For something as important as voting, why not implement the same thing?
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by:beetos
ID: 37779424
Really Cars, the ACORN boogeyman again?

Please show us ONE instance of ONE conviction for VOTER FRAUD that implicates ACORN.


No,  Waterstreet, the new voter laws are absolutely necessary -         for the GOP of course.


The laws they're ushering in not only require photo ID's, but also have tighter restrictions on who is a valid resident, thus nullifying a lot of students, they also do away with early voting, so you can't vote on a Saturday making a lot of lower income people choose between working and voting, etc.

If it was just about "integrity", they could pick a date in the future to develop a standard and allow time for everyone ( poor people and the elderly included) to obtain the necessary credentials.       Right now, these states say you can get one at the DMV, but when you try to do that, all you get is a runaround.  


There's no need to rush these laws into being, unless you're deliberately trying to disenfranchise voters before the next election.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37779477
ACORN could have committed fraud or not. You really think McCain would have won? It wasn't even close.

I don't see a problem though with requiring an ID to vote though. It's not that hard to get and is not too much to ask to me.
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by:WaterStreet
ID: 37779518
I don't disfavor having a reasonable voter ID per se, but it seems the requirements are too stringent and unnecessary given that voters are more likely to be struck by lightning than commit voter fraud.  See below.

http://www.politicususa.com/gop-voter-id-minorities/
In the aftermath of 2008, Republicans in states across the country have used the boogeyman of voter fraud to pass Voter ID measures, but as the Brennan Center for Justice noted, voters are more likely to be struck by lightning than commit voter fraud. The Bush Justice Department spent 5 years on a voter fraud investigation, and came up with 86 convictions out of 196 million votes cast. These new laws don’t come cheap. Depending on the size of the state, tens of millions tax payer dollars must be spent to implement them.
It also appears to impact many otherwise legitimate voters who would have difficulty.  For example, the elderly (who can have difficulty finding their birth records) and students (who have temporary residences)  -- where it has not been shown that voter fraud is a problem worth addressing.
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by:beetos
ID: 37779744
The biggest fraud with ACORN was O'Keefe's highly edited video, which when shown in its entirety had little or no resemblance to reality.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37779765
Even Democrats say ACORN and Obama committed fraud.  


Hillary Backers Decry Massive Obama Vote Fraud
Already in Iowa, the Obama campaign was breaking the rules, busing in supporters from neighboring states to vote illegally in the first contest in the primaries and physically intimidating Hillary supporters, they say.

This is the community organizing way.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37780002
>>Even Democrats say ACORN and Obama committed fraud.  

And again, it wouldn't have mattered. McCain wasn't even close.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37781385
>>McCain wasn't even close

I'm not following.  You're saying Mccain came in a distant 3rd in the Democrat nomination and therefore ACORN's fraud for Obama didn't matter?


Here's further proof that Obama and Democrats encourage voter fraud.  Obama shut down an investigation in to the group he used to be a part of.  Link
However, the Obama Justice Department, while noting that ACORN had engaged in “questionable hiring and training practices,” closed down the investigation in March 2009



For a group Beetos says doesn't commit fraud, sure do have a lot of results come back when googled.  6 million
acorn
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37781725
>>You're saying Mccain came in a distant 3rd in the Democrat nomination and therefore ACORN's fraud for Obama didn't matter?

So all your ACORN fraud ranting is about the democratic primaries? I thought you were talking about the general election. I didn't know you were such a backer of Hillary.
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sbdt8631 earned 20 total points
ID: 37781728
http://articles.philly.com/2012-03-08/news/31136168_1_voter-id-bill-voters-show-photo-identification
"Democrats contended the bill would disproportionately hurt the elderly, the poor and the disabled, who make up the lion's share of voters who typically do not have photo IDs. Those groups also tend to vote Democratic."

Back when the "Motor Voter" law was instituted I was not in favor of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Voter_Registration_Act_of_1993
I did not believe then, nor do I still, that it is in the best interest of an informed election pool to make voter registration too easy.  It is my opinion that if you are too lazy  or unmotivated to get to the proper office to register to vote, then you probably will not make a good effort to make an informed vote.  Although I will say, I fail to understand how involving the Department of Motor Vehicles is supposed to make anything more efficient or convenient. :)

But that said, I still think these laws are atrocious.  Their stated purpose is to prevent voter fraud, but that is just a sham.  Their real purpose is to disenfranchise particular segments of the population that are more likely to vote Democratic.  Anyone who has any doubts that this is true need only look at the voting records where these measures have passed.  They pass almost exclusively along party lines in states that have a Republican legislatures and Republican governors. One would have to be blind or stupid not to see the connection.

We are disenfranchising:
Elderly
Disabled
Poor
Minorities
Young people

While I understand the political maneuvering that is behind these efforts, I think the results are shameful for a supposedly democratic country.  Deliberately disenfranchising targeted segments of the population is not something a free country is supposed to do.  
At this rate we might as well go back to being a society where a voter needs to be a white, male landowner.
As I read in a recent thread, "How many slaves does one have to own before they should be allowed to vote?"
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by:carsRST
ID: 37781818
Apparently in Vermont, a person can walk up and, without an ID, vote for a deceased invidual.



James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas has released a new video exposing just how easy it is to commit voter fraud in Vermont.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/13/OKeefe%20Video%20Exposes%20Voter%20Fraud-Friendly%20Policies%20in%20Vermont
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by:beetos
ID: 37782950
LOL - O'Keefe!
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by:Anthony Russo
Anthony Russo earned 10 total points
ID: 37783049
Well said sbdt8631.

It will harm democrats, and it is more important to republicans for that reason than it is for preventing voter fraud, whether they admit it or not.

I still though believe that an ID is not too much to ask though. As you stated, "It is my opinion that if you are too lazy  or unmotivated to get to the proper office to register to vote, then you probably will not make a good effort to make an informed vote."

Same thing about getting the ID. It is not hard to get so get one, register and vote.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37783099
>>It will harm democrats

Of course it will hurt Democrats.  No more ACORN, community organizing fraud.
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by:sbdt8631
sbdt8631 earned 20 total points
ID: 37783104
>>I still though believe that an ID is not too much to ask though

It isn't the stated purpose of the law that offends me.  On its surface it seems perfectly reasonable to require an ID to vote.  And I agree that if you are too lazy to meet reasonable voting requirements, I am just as happy that you can't.

It is the unstated reasons for the laws that offend me.  The real reason for these laws is to disenfranchise segments of the population that are more likely to vote for the democratic party than the Republicans. This is obvious when you look at the fact that every state that has passed the laws is governed by the Republicans.  Voting on these laws is almost exclusively by party lines.  It is blatant voter manipulation, and innocent voters are being deprived of their right to vote as a result.

It is shameful.
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by:sbdt8631
ID: 37783108
>>LOL - O'Keefe!

Posted on Breitbart!!  What a joke.
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by:beetos
ID: 37783112
Not to mention Republican redistricting.
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by:sbdt8631
ID: 37783153
>>Not to mention Republican redistricting.

Off topic, but I agree.  Unfortunately, Democratic legislatures do it as well.  The process should be turned over to disinterested organizations.
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by:ScottPletcher
ScottPletcher earned 20 total points
ID: 37784442
It's an obvious requirement, and should be standard across the U.S..


Name ONE person who has been disenfranchised because of the ID laws.  ONE.


That does NOT happen.  Every state has a law that still allows these idiots, who somehow can't figure out how to get an id (??), to vote provisionally.

Dems just need the fraud to win.  The dead don't have photo ids, after all.  And it's a lot harder for one guy to vote for 10 others if he has to show ids with all 10 of those different names.
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by:beetos
ID: 37784509
Of course you're right Scott,  

And the Republicans only care about the integrity of the race, much more so than they care about winning, right?
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by:ScottPletcher
ScottPletcher earned 20 total points
ID: 37784520
As noted, just Google "voter fraud cases", "voter fraud convictions".

There's lightening EVERY day.  Not even Dems can commit fraud every day since elections don't happen that often.


*Sampling* of voter fraud CONVICTIONS / cases:

Iowa:
Iowa Secretary of State Matt Schultz has referred nine cases of possible voter fraud to county attorneys for investigation **since last October**.


Troy, NY, 2009:
city clerk and a councilman, along with two Democratic political operatives, pled guilty to forging absentee-ballot signatures and casting fraudulent ballots in the 2009 Working Families Party primary. (The WFP is the political party associated with
--->> ACORN <<--- ).  One of the Democrat operatives who pled guilty, Anthony DeFiglio, told New York State police investigators “that faking absentee ballots was a commonplace and accepted practice in [Democrat] political circles, all intended to swing an election.”


Greene County, Ala:
11 convicted of voter fraud in mid '90s


Miami, FL, 1997:
Miami mayoral election results **thrown out because of massive fraud involving over 5,000 absentee ballots**


Minnesota:
Fraud allegations arising from the 2008 general election in the state so far have resulted in 113(!) convictions
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37784557
>> Not to mention Republican redistricting. <<


No, you and other leftists never mention **Dem** redistricting bs, which has gone on for decades.

You mention it now ONLY because, for the first time in a longggg time, Repubs are in charge of redistricting in more states than Dems.  SUDDENLY THEN AND ONLY THEN does the way redistricting is done cause a "problem".  When Dems were in charge, it was "the will of the people" being exercised.


Voter fraud stuck us with Kennedy in '60, led by his pals in the mafia.

Al Franken stole his election, OBVIOUSLY.  And he didn't even have decency the mafia did to at least commit the fraud during the election, he did if after the election, like Stalin.

Al Gore tried to do it, but the Repubs refused to allow Dem apparatchiks in closed rooms to re-count selected districts and announce new totals out of thin air.  What, you want to watch/monitor the Dem officials re-count?  Gore was like, "C'mon, we can't steal enough votes that way -- er, I mean, that's not fair".

Gore lost the count, the recount, the re-recount and the re-re-recount.  And *still* idiots whine that Gore "won".  Only in Soviet-land ... and unless Obama wins re-election, America's not quite down to that level yet.  

But if Obama steals another one, and gets his "more flexibility", America as truly free will end.  He might rig it so Repubs can never win another election.  He'll use Stalin's election techniques here, and obliterate our missile shield and other defense initiatives to give the Soviets more strength abroad as well.
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by:ScottPletcher
ScottPletcher earned 20 total points
ID: 37784572
>> that not all citizens should be allowed to vote <<

I'd be happy if we'd just prevent NON-citizens from voting, like all the illegals that vote.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37784589
Name ONE person who has been disenfranchised because of the ID laws.  ONE.  JUST ONE.


The ridiculous claim is made over and over that voters are "disenfranchised".

Dems whined about the "vast numbers" of it in one minority district so much they did an investigation.  The Dems did not produce even ONE person who was "disenfranchised", after claiming hundreds.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37784595
There are thousands of examples of voter fraud across the nation every election.


Not ONE verified case, ever, of voter disenfranchisement from an ID law.


You're more likely to be killed by Julius Caesar himself than be disenfranchised by a voter ID law.
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by:WaterStreet
ID: 37784638
Thank you.  Mixed opinions.  Wanted to hear the best of both sides.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37784646
According to a Google search, 58 people are killed by lightening every year.

So "voters are more likely to be struck by lightning than commit voter fraud" is clearly an absolute lie.

There were THOUSANDS of cases in ONE state (MN) in ONE election (2008).  And the people there who are investigating it say "that's the tip of the iceberg".

THOUSANDS of other cases in MN were dismissed because claiming ignorance of the law is a valid excuse in MN.  

Wow, talk about convenient -- allowing Dems to use ignorance to get out of something is a golden ticket for them!!
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by:WaterStreet
ID: 37784725
Scott,

Already awarded you, but please provide links next time unless its clearly your opinion.

Thanks in advance
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by:sbdt8631
ID: 37786759
Thanks WaterStreet
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by:carsRST
ID: 37798928
Just out now...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/02/4-indiana-dems-charged-with-election-fraud-in-2008/
Prosecutors in South Bend, Ind., filed charges Monday against four St. Joseph County Democratic officials and deputies as part of a multiple-felony case involving the alleged forging of Democratic presidential primary petitions in the 2008 election

Democrats=Voter Fraud (one and the same)
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37799428
2008 again?

How about we keep up with the current election?
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37801529
They can't find fraud overnight.

How about you find ANY example, even ONE, of someone disenfranchised because of id laws?

That's the big lie, right, that voters are being "disenfranchised" by these laws?

Left claims there is "no (significant) voter fraud", which we've proven is bull.

Where's even **ONE** investigated and confirmed example of "disenfranchisement"??

That TRULY does NOT happen.  The laws themselves have safeguards in there to prevent that -- too many even in some cases, that re-allow fraud.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37802157
Yeah we have solid proof that left-wing groups, such as ACORN (with whom Obama was employed as an attorney) commit voter fraud, we have videos by James O'keefe showing how easy it is to commit voter fraud, but we have NO evidence of it hurting voters.

Then you have Obama's attorney general, Eric Holder, refusing to investigate voter intimidation and voter fraud.

The ONE conclusion from this would be...?
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by:beetos
ID: 37802187
If O'keefe videos are your evidence, you have nothing.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37802200
>>If O'keefe videos are your evidence, you have nothing.

Then you do what he did.  Find some dead people, go to a polling location, and try to vote as if you're that person.  

Don't worry.  No one will ask questions or ask for an ID.  You can vote multiple times for the community organizer.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37802211
But be careful -- be sure to look like a Democrat voter.  So, don't look too smart, don't dress too well, don't smell too good, and try to look unemployed!  They'll be sure you're a Dem and you'll sail right thru!
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by:carsRST
ID: 37802233
>>and try to look unemployed!

Easy under B. Hussein O.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37802421
>>But be careful -- be sure to look like a Democrat voter.  So, don't look too smart, don't dress too well, don't smell too good, and try to look unemployed!  They'll be sure you're a Dem and you'll sail right thru!

Wow, amazing level of prejudice.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37802431
Anthony, how does that one compare to Obama's?
he [Obama] said his grandmother is a "typical white person"

What is a typical white person?
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37802440
>>Anthony, how does that one compare to Obama's?

Also prejudice. Not nearly as bad as what Scott proclaimed for Democrats though.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37802445
>>Not nearly as bad as what Scott proclaimed for Democrats though.

How do you know?  Explain to me what a typical white person is.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37802549
I doubt Obama was talking about his grandmother as don't look too smart, don't dress too well, don't smell too good, and looking unemployed!

My wife and daughter are democrats and I am damn sure that does not describe them at all. Prejudices like Scott listed are short sighted and ignorant.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37802607
>>don't look too smart

Peggy Joseph is a genius?



>> looking unemployed!
>>don't smell too good

Pelosi's daughter shows some of those fine, hardworking folks.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37802907
>>My wife and daughter are democrats and I am damn sure that does not describe them at all. <<

Maybe your eyesight's just not that good? :-)


Let's see.  Obama:

1. didn't object when leaders around him damned America (religious people, making "damning" stronger in context)
2. didn't object when leaders around him stated America got what it deserved on 9/11 ("America's chickens coming home to roost")
3. didn't object when his wife said she had NEVER been proud of her country ... until they voted for her marxist husband
4. said that average Americans are "bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them" -- code words for "racist", clearly
5. said "I do think at a certain point you've made enough money."  No one in the press asked the most obvious follow up in the world to that marxist quote:  What amount is the "certain point"?  And what happens then?  The govt takes *everything* above that amount?  If you've "made enough", that's only "logical", right?
6. There's a lot of -- I don't know what the term is in Austrian, wheeling and dealing."  Austrian???  There's no "Austrian" language -- most Austrians speak German.
7. said "I bowled a 129. It's like -- it was like Special Olympics, or something."  Ooh, very sensitive.  Can't say a word about Obama without being called all sorts of nasty names but he insults Special Olympians!  Talk about hypocritical, arrogant and narcisstic.  Even his alleged "jokes" have to attack others!!
8. said ad nauseum "teachable moment".  What a self-important, condescending twit!  Romney should pledge NEVER to use the words "teachable moment" to insult the American people.
9. said "I've visited 57 states, what, two more to go?"  Media refused to talk about that too.  Bush had said that it would have been played 5000 times a week on every old media outlet.
10. said "you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith...".  O never noticed it.  Of course ueber-leftist Stephanopoulos jumped in to "correct"(?) him.
11. said "On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today."  --  I see dead people!


And he's turning us into Greece by adding more debt than all other presidents combined in just three years.


And you think what I said was bad??  Yikes, typical leftist bizarrely misplaced priorities.
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by:beetos
ID: 37802941
Golly Scott,  

I'm sorry you feel that way.  Hope you can make it to 2016.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37802960
I will, but America won't if the America-hater-in-chief gets back in.

He's already told the Soviets they can have anything they want after he gets re-elected.  He can safely strip our defenses then.
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by:beetos
ID: 37803005
LOL - you're so funny Scott.    You'd make Hannity blush and swoon!


Here's my predictions:

1) Obama will win the election
2) America will still exist at the end of his next term, and will still be a leading global superpower.
3) We'll have health insurance.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37803137
Hannity is a total wimp.  He's so mushy because he wants to be "liked" by the left.  He wants to be "nice".

That's the kind of "useful idiots" marxists eat for breakfast.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37803187
>>Maybe your eyesight's just not that good? :-)

Scott, I guess I should stop trying to give you the benefit of the doubt for not being an asshole. Thank you for proving my point. When you call a man's wife and daughter dumb smelly and everything else just because they are democrats when you have never met them, it really shows how stupid your prejudice really is.

Peggy Joseph and Pelosi's daughter carsRST? There are dumb people everywhere. I know plenty of dumb democrats, republicans, and every other leaning. Picking a few examples out does not prove your prejudice correct.

>>Let's see.  Obama:

What does all that have to do with what we were talking about??

>>He's already told the Soviets they can have anything they want after he gets re-elected.

Agree that sucks.
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by:beetos
ID: 37803206
Russians:

Obama mentions the reality that during an election year, conservatives will flip out about anything to make it a political weapon.  Upon learning of this, conservatives flip out.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37803242
>> Agree that sucks. <<

OMG?  Really??  Be careful, that would be politically incorrect.  If anyone finds out, you'll be called "racist" and driven out of the leftist in crowd.  


As to children of politicians, they should be COMPLETELY OFF LIMITS, 100%.  I said that about Amy Carter, Chelsea Clinton -- including when McCain said something stupid about her --, the Bush daughters (oops, sure you were with me until then), and the Obama kids.

Kids under 18 are 100% off limits, period.  They did not choose their parents' careers.

Kids over 18 are still 100% off limits unless they start *speaking out* at political events.  Just showing up and standing there is a familial obligation.  But past 18, speaking *beyond a boilerplate* "was such a good parent", "taught me a lot", opens 'em back up.

Chelsea Clinton is now clearly "in the arena".  But as a minor?  NO NO NO.

The difference is I am consistent and apply it to BOTH sides.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37803258
>> conservatives will flip out about anything to make it a political weapon <<

No, offering "flexibility" to a criminal and their murderous, repressive regime, which is jailing those opposed to them for political reason, is not "anything".  Surrending to the most murderous ideology of all time -- to the evil empire -- is not "anything".  In Biden's immortal words, "This is a big f***** deal".


Obama flips out because the supreme court is reviewing the constitutionality of his law -- which is one of the primary reasons we even have a supreme court.  That's flipping out over nothing to use it as a political weapon.

Promising aid and concessions to our enemy after being re-elected is not "anything", it's treason.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37803263
>>Peggy Joseph and Pelosi's daughter carsRST? There are dumb people everywhere. I know plenty of dumb democrats, republicans, and every other leaning.

Law of averages say there are more deadbeats, losers, leeches, idiots on the Democrat side.

I can't blame them.  If I were a deadbeat, I too would vote for the party handing out goodies.
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by:beetos
ID: 37803268
See what I'm sayin?
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37803337
“A government with the policy to rob Peter to pay Paul can be assured of the support of Paul.”  -- George B Shaw

Legalized theft by govt, and splitting people into interest groups.  That's what Dems survive on.  It's not a political party so much as a mob family.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37803434
>>OMG?  Really??  Be careful, that would be politically incorrect.  If anyone finds out, you'll be called "racist" and driven out of the leftist in crowd.

I have repeatedly stated that I'm Independent. I tend to argue on the more democratic sides of issues her because the conservative fans here tend to bring up points I disagree with. I have in the past disagreed with things beetos has said and everyone on here.

I do tend to want to help people more than a conservative, but also feel that if you earn money, it should be yours. There is a balance that is needed, and that is what either party needs help with understanding in my opinion.

>>As to children of politicians, they should be COMPLETELY OFF LIMITS, 100%.

Who brought up politicians kids? I agree 100% they are off limits. Actually everyone is off limits unless they are the ones deciding the issues.

>>Obama mentions the reality that during an election year, conservatives will flip out about anything to make it a political weapon.

Yes they will, but conservative or not, most people will flip out on that. Saying anything before you are elected and changing it after is the problem. However they all do it. It's unfortunately part of politics.

>>Law of averages say there are more deadbeats, losers, leeches, idiots on the Democrat side.

More prejudice. I know plenty of democrats and republicans that you and Scott would probably class as "losers". I do agree that those who require assistance from the government tend to lean democrat as those policies favor them. I also though know that successful people are on both sides. A fact you and Scott seem to dismiss.
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by:beetos
ID: 37808183
How about you find ANY example, even ONE, of someone disenfranchised because of id laws?


As a new Center for American Progress Report points out, elderly voters are frequently the victims of Voter ID laws. A short list of older voters who have been kept from the polls by these laws include Paul Carroll, a 86-year-old World War II veteran from Ohio; Dorothy Cooper, a 96-year-old African-American woman from Tennessee, and Thelma Mitchell a 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/876604/87-year-old_woman_turned_away_from_wi_polling_booth_despite_courts%27_decision_to_suspend_voter_id/#paragraph2
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808237
>> They went to their Waukesha West High School poll Tuesday but were asked to show identification – which her mother hadn’t brought with her. <<

She had an id and didn't bring it -- the law didn't disenfranchise her, her own carelessness did.

The one lady got her id, came back and was able to vote.  Her mom said she couldn't redo the trip.  Guess she had more important things to do than vote.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808249
Of course it's highly unlikely we can really rely on an ueber-leftist site like that anyway, they'll glom onto anything and "enhance" it to match their needs.

Still extraordinarily thin compared to the thousands of cases, and dozens of CONVICTIONS, of voter fraud.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37808250
>>How about you find ANY example, even ONE, of someone disenfranchised because of id laws?

"Yesterday, however, probably marks the first time an elderly voter was disenfranchised by a voter ID law that isn’t even supposed to be in effect."

He found one.

I still think requiring IDs is not too much to ask though.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808262
>> The woman said she and her mother had moved to Waukesha last May and registered to vote at Waukesha City Hall in January. ... Her own driver’s license had an out-of-date address on it, she said. <<

So the daughter moves in May, and doesn't bother to get a valid license, as required by law, yet wants to vote.  Hmm, is she really eligible to vote, considering she maybe hasn't legally resided there for long enough?
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808282
The site has articles like "Scalia's Republican talking points".  Clearly false, so the site is clearly not trustworthy.


You really saying that genuine voter disenfranchisement is happening and ABC, CBS, NBC, even MSNBC refuse to report on it??  C'mon, that's just not believable, they'd all get "shivers up their legs" if they could report on a real case of that.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808295
>> He found one. <<

Allegedly.

But read further.  After it was cleared up, she just didn't want to bother coming back again to vote.

Sure, if someone thinks the law doesn't apply to them and shows up with no id they will be inconvenienced and have to go back and get one.

Then again, if you try to rent a car, rent a movie (in a lot of places), use a credit card, cash a check, check into a hotel/motel, or dozens of other things, you'll need an id too.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808350
>> voters who have been kept from the polls by these laws include Paul Carroll, a 86-year-old World War II veteran from Ohio <<

"Carroll was offered a provisional ballot ... but was perturbed by then."

So he was NOT denied a chance to vote.  

He had a VA id, without his address, that HE KNEW AS INVALID, because he said he didn't go get an id with an address because he didn't want to pay someone to drive him.


Dems are always pushing to do away with even having to register to vote ... tell me that's not because they want to increase fraudulent voting.


An extremely small number of cases is no reason to void a reasonable law to prevent thousands of fraudulent votes by Dem officials and activists.  Even if some left-wing nut case judges here and there support voter fraud also.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37808442
>>An extremely small number of cases is no reason to void a reasonable law to prevent thousands of fraudulent votes ..,

Someone write this day down. I agree with ScottPletcher.
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by:beetos
ID: 37808456
"Still extraordinarily thin compared to the thousands of cases, and dozens of CONVICTIONS, of voter fraud."

Thousand of cases, and dozens of convictions.   That doesn't sound like a very widespread problem.


"But read further.  After it was cleared up, she just didn't want to bother coming back again to vote."

Except that the law had been suspended, so she had no requirement to meet:


Yesterday, it also appears to have disenfranchised one more elderly voter, despite the fact that the law is supposed to be suspended due to the multiple court decisions against it.

The site has articles like "Scalia's Republican talking points".  Clearly false, so the site is clearly not trustworthy.

Fox News also hosts foxnation.com.   So clearly, Fox News is not trustworthy.



You really saying that genuine voter disenfranchisement is happening and ABC, CBS, NBC, even MSNBC refuse to report on it??  C'mon, that's just not believable, they'd all get "shivers up their legs" if they could report on a real case of that.

Maybe the media aren't the radical partisan leftist organizations you're making them out to be?
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808477
>> Maybe the media aren't the radical partisan leftist organizations you're making them out to be? <<

ROFLOL, GOOD ONE!!!
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808486
Every one of them would LOVVVVVVE to find one REAL case of actual voter disenfranchisement.

Find that and insult the Bushes and they could be up for a nobel prize.

I mean, Al Gore got one -- AL IDIOT GORE!!

That's 100% proof that they're just left-wing political prizes now.

What "reporter" wouldn't want that??
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808512
AT LEAST dozens of convictions.  Likely hundreds, I just can't say for sure.


>> Fox News also hosts foxnation.com. <<

I guess, whatever foxnation is.

Can't be as extreme as the bs on that other site.
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by:beetos
ID: 37808785
So to summarize, Scott,

The left is getting away with all kinds of scams and schemes,  and they have basically hi-jacked the political process, while conservatives, as usual, are victims.  


Is that it?
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808795
The fact is that Dems have used vote fraud to steal elections for DECADES.  It's well known even.  The only people who even try to deny that voter fraud happens are left-wing kooks.  You can't claim to be a serious person and then state that voter is "extraordinarily rare" in the U.S..  Not when EVERY election shows that it's wholesale across the country.

The mafia ran many of the Dem voting frauds.  They put Kennedy in that way.

They used to coat the "wrong" lever with coal dust -- if you came out dusty, you got the &*^(*&%^ beat out of you.  Like the black panther thugs that Obama ordered not prosecuted, that no doubt forcibly altered votes.
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by:beetos
ID: 37808800
You poor thing.




Fraud has been going on for decades;  nearly everyone knows it, but there are only "dozens" of convictions.   What's that, like 40?


Hmm, I do seem to remember someone "stealing" an election.   Seems to have involved the race for President, and one of the candidates brothers...
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37808852
5,000 would be dozens also -- maybe you need to look up "multiplication".

Clinton's brother had something to do with C's election??  News to me.  Thought he just sold pardons -- and cocaine.  C himself sold pardons, so I guess he had to pardon his own brother, eh?


Obama used cocaine too ... wonder if he got it from Roger?

He could have asked for the "honor among thieves" discount.

Media coverup on O's cocaine *buying* -- NO ONE EVER asked him where he got the money to buy cocaine?  It ain't cheap.  Did O deal to do?  About the only way you can afford it before hitting it big.
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by:beetos
ID: 37808858
5,000 would be dozens also -- maybe you need to look up "multiplication".


That would be 5000 absentee ballots, not convictions.  So, how many people were involved in that?  5000?  Go look up word problems.


Clinton's brother had something to do with C's election??  News to me.  Thought he just sold pardons, like C himself.

Was giving them away, like Barbour did, a better idea?
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by:carsRST
ID: 37808893
>>As a new Center for American Progress Report points out, elderly voters are frequently the victims of Voter ID laws


Then how the f*ck do they get prescriptions, which requires an ID?

I don't know why it's so hard to admit this whole voter ID thing is so Democrats can commit fraud.  Just f*ckin' admit it.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37809418
>>I don't know why it's so hard to admit this whole voter ID thing is so Democrats can commit fraud.  Just f*ckin' admit it.

I honestly think it really is about a majority of the masses who vote barely get themselves to do it. Put that one more little hurdle in the way and they will not vote. The majority voting on feeling and yard signs like I mentioned previously generally are voting for Obama. So that's why the dems push this because it does help Obama.

It's not about fraud. It's about allowing laziness to vote. I don't like it, but it is their right. (and yes I know it's not explicit in the Constitution)
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37811746
People also have a right NOT to vote ... unless you're a union member and want to keep your job (and legs).


>> Was giving them away, like Barbour did, a better idea? <<

Of course.  The difference between legal and illegal.

Blago had a right to GIVE O's Senate seat to anyone -- he did not have a right to SELL it, so he's in jail (he's not black, so he can't play the race card as a get-out-of-jail-free card).
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37811749
>> It's not about fraud. <<

Of course it is.  Dems don't want to just vote in place of the lazy when they don't show up.  Dems also want to vote in place of the dead and people that moved away three years ago.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37811859
>>Dems also want to vote in place of the dead and people that moved away three years ago.

While there have been cases of this and are some that probably do still, that is an incredibly small % as compared to those that just want to make sure all the masses who wouldn't jump through an extra hoop, like getting an ID or learning the issues, still gets to vote.

To think that the Dems are the only ones that would commit voter fraud is wrong. In the GOP Primaries there has been constant accusations of fraud all along the way.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37812133
The vast majority of voter fraud is Democrat.  That's been proven over and over.

Including *forcing* people to vote.  Forcing them onto a bus and telling them who to vote for.

Union members told they'll lose jobs, hours or benefits if they don't vote -- and vote the "right" way.  And don't kid yourself -- they know who you vote for.

They've also payed homeless people to vote (Omaha Mayor Jim Suttle in a recall election -- of course officially he paid them $5 for "training" -- but the only real training was how to mark NO on the recall vote!!).

So Dems routinely go beyond even normal vote fraud to coercion and bribery.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37812297
Black churches want to register 1M votes on Easter [*leftist* link, so you can't blame Fox News -- the ONLY news outlet that's not 99% leftist, and you can't stop whining about it]:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/11/black-vote-clergy-voter-registration_n_1337563.html


What about "separation of church and state" that Dems whine about soooo much?  

And these churches make it clear *who* you should vote for as well -- a clear violation of their tax exempt status.  They've done this for DECADES.  Yet more Dem illegalities, but the alleged media NEVER even mention it.
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by:beetos
ID: 37812628
...and are we to believe there are no churches that favor Republican/conservative candidates or agendas?

It's the same thing with voter fraud - you discount all Republican instances of voter fraud, intimidation etc.  and only see Democrats.


You need to clean your glasses.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37812847
Dem fraud outnumbers Repub 100-1.  I see what's there, you see only what you want to see.

You can delude yourself, but don't try to trick me.  I'm not one of your "useful idiot" Dem sheep.
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by:beetos
ID: 37812860
"I'm not one of your "useful idiot" Dem sheep."

Certainly not.  In fact, you pretty useless.

You seriously want to say that Republicans don't employ dirty campaign tricks?

You focus on ID laws, what about not allowing students to vote?  What about no early voting on Saturdays  ( work or vote, take your choice)?    These are typical Republican disenfranchisement tactics.   Or don't you want to see that?
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37813073
Who doesn't allow students to vote?  Wth are you talking about?


>> What about no early voting on Saturdays?  <<
We have that in my state.  Each state can decide on its own -- that's in the Constitution, you should read it.

Of course THE LAW ITSELF SETS **TUESDAY** AS ELECTION DAY -- AND HAS SINCE 1845!!

Why don't you see that!!  But instead you make up some bs about "disenfranchisement".


"Early voting" is a Dem move to apparently allow more chances for "walking around money" / "street money" to buy black church leaders to get out the directed Dem vote.  But of course you refuse to see that genuine, illegal fraud as well.  

See, technically it's illegal to buy or bribe votes, even if you're black.  Shh, don't mention that too loudly, since the DOJ doesn't ever want to see it either.  But especially under "New Black Panther Party" Holder.

I wonder how much Holder and Obama donated to the bounty on Zimmerman.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37813087
>>Including *forcing* people to vote.  Forcing them onto a bus and telling them who to vote for.
>>Union members told they'll lose jobs, hours or benefits if they don't vote -- and vote the "right" way.  And don't kid yourself -- they know who you vote for.

Your Owellian outlook of the situation is almost laughable Scott. I'm sure it's there but this picture of force and firing threats, and knowing your vote. You make it sound like the Nazi concentration camps.

Also like I mentioned the GOP Primaries have had endless accusations of voting fraud trying to get enough repubs to like Romney enough to get him the nomination. Stop the rhetoric that they are so innocent.

Again, I am in favor if ID to vote, but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be. That's just unrealistic. Like most things in the news, it's a lot more middle of the road then the extremes they like to report, no matter where you get your news.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37813114
That's like saying a few murders are OK.

Voter fraud is SERIOUS.  Our elections now are often VERY CLOSE.  Dems get into office using the fraud, and have done for decades.  But that doesn't make it right.

Saying a little voter fraud is OK is outrageous.  It ends true representative govt.

You allow a little, you allow more.  You allow more, Al Idiot Gore steals the presidency, and America collapses (of course Obama did it anyway, using the same fraud techniques, but at least we survived a little while longer).


You CONDONE "street money"?

You didn't even bother to care.

Just repeat old media's talking points: "there's really not much fraud.  All those examples and convictions, they aren't really there."  

And any cases are VERY HARD to even initiate, because Dems block them and many states allow feigned ignorance to be a defense.
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by:beetos
ID: 37813137
Ah yes Scott,  

Luckily, we got Bush instead.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37813141
Quite.  We'd be a third-world country after Gore.  We'd have solar-powered flashlights -- and we'd need them, because we'd have no more electricity.
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by:beetos
ID: 37813161
You should take all of these threads, assemble them into a single volume and send them to Fox News.  You'll probably get a prime time slot!   Or at least a "Fox News Contributor"
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37813202
Definitely not to AP though.

The head of that "news" (LOL) org was really Lewinsky'ing Obama yesterday.

AP provides most news in the country.  And we have further confirmation of how ULTRA ULTRA ULTRA leftist and favorable to O they are.


>> Maybe the media aren't the radical partisan leftist organizations you're making them out to be? <<

ROFLOL!!!!  You should send that in to Comedy Central!!
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by:beetos
ID: 37813209
Got it - if a news org doesn't pillory Obama daily, they're ULTRA ULTRA ULTRA leftists.

Is that right?  

Pray tell - what AP story about Obama has your panties in a bunch today?
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37813332
Right, you only want your left-wing, Obama-supporters-only-allowed govt-approved "news" outlets.

Dean Singleton, on the board of the AP, likely the most powerful "news" org in the world, providing the majority of content for American "news" outlets, slobbered all over Obama yesterday.

So much for objectivity!

Even White House operatives themselves aren't usually that fawning and sycophantic.  It was so pathetic it would be laughable if it weren't so serious.

Soon Obama's gonna' need a bell like Stalin had to force the "press" to quit applauding when he enters the room.
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by:beetos
ID: 37813907
I Googled this, because I hadn't heard about it, and look what came up;  a bunch of conservative sites ( including Fox News segments by O'Reilly and Kelly).   If you read the text, it's not "gushing" so much as stating reality.   And most of all, it's an introduction of a guest about to give a speech, not an AP NEWS STORY.


Today [pauses for laughter], there is no mistaking his name and even I can't mess it up. It's Mr. President. President Obama made history as the first minority to be elected President. Even many who opposed his election felt proud of our country as he took the oath of office. As President, he inherited the headwinds of the worst economic recession since the Great Depression. He pushed through Congress the biggest economic recovery plan in history and led a government reorganization of two of the big three auto manufacturers to save them from oblivion. He pursued domestic and foreign policy agendas that were controversial to many, highlighted by his signature into law of the most comprehensive health care legislation in history.

And the budget plans proposed by the President, on the one hand, and Republicans on the other hand, aren't even on the same planet. Many Democrats believe that his agenda doesn't go far enough and most Republicans believe it goes way too far. While we thought the 2008 White House race was rough and tumble, the 2012 race makes it look like bumper cars by comparison. Our country has become more polarized. The one percent and the 99 percent are at each others' throats. Campaigns are now funded by secretive, multi-million dollar super PACs. What's next? Giga-PACs? The only thing anyone seems willing to compromise on is– well, I can't think of anything.

Really, who would want this job in the first place? We're very honored today to have the man currently holding the office and aspiring for it for another term. And, with apologies to Al Green, my new favorite singer. Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States of America.


Again, it sounds like conservatives are upset that someone doesn't hate the President.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37814033
>>Saying a little voter fraud is OK is outrageous.  It ends true representative govt.

I agree. My issue is that you keep demonizing the Democrats for it but you must realize the Republicans do it too. If the Democrats do it more doesn't matter under your logic. ANY voter fraud is not OK and the Republicans are doing it too.

So pick your point:

A) Dems do more fraud so they suck and Repubs don't! (Then your argument about a little being not OK is invalid)
B) Dems do all fraud and Repubs don't do any! (I don't think even you believe that)
C) Dems and Repubs do fraud and they both suck even though Dems do more! (That would vilify Repubs as bad as Dems but validate your point)

So which is it?

Again, I am for voter ID, not that it will stop fraud anyway. If there is a will there is a way and always will be.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37814238
Of course I wouldn't be so absolutist as to say there's "no" Repub fraud.

But if it's 95% Dem to %5 Repub, the real concern is Dem fraud.

You're never going to get 0% fraud in any system, so that's a bit of a straw man.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37814288
>>But if it's 95% Dem to %5 Repub, the real concern is Dem fraud.

"A) Dems do more fraud so they suck and Repubs don't! (Then your argument about a little being not OK is invalid)"

So then that's your choice?
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37814298
Yep.

If I have fifty thousand auto thefts going on, and 49,000 are in one area of town, yes, I would flood that area with police and ignore other areas until the problem was more under control.
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by:beetos
ID: 37814440
Where then, was the Dem fraud you're so concerned about committed Scott?
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37814468
Just do a Google for "voter fraud" -- PLENTY of examples.
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by:beetos
ID: 37814479
So you don't know where the fraud occurred, what Republican voter laws were implemented and what states they've been implemented in, yet your convinced that it was the right thing to do?
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37814559
>>Yep.

So a little fraud is OK?

I'm harping on this because this is the way that all political issues go. When someone does something outright wrong, it is twisted to where the other party is wrong. If my party is doing it, then it slides. All the conservatives complain about the mass media doing this all the time letting Obama slide and coming down on Republicans. FoxNews lets Republicans slide and comes down on Barack Obama.

Examples

 - Obama screws up number of states in a soundbite - Conservatives jump all over him. Dems let is slide as it happens to everyone.
 - Rick Perry loses his train of thought in a debate - Conservatives let is slide as it happens to everyone - Dems all over him.

I'm sure you all remember these incidents so I wont bother with links.

It's the reason I'm Independent. I judge for myself.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37816096
You're not truly independent, you certainly favor the Dems if you think voter fraud is equivalent between the two parties.

The mob and union leg-breaking has never won an election for Repubs; it's happened thousands of times for the Dems, including local elections, not just federal.

What you're saying about Repub voter fraud vs Dem voter fraud is like saying since a few American soldiers killed prisoners in WWII, we were just as guilty as the Nazis.  That's just ridiculous.


Btw, I'm NOT a Repub, I'm a LIBERTARIAN.

I want much more freedom, and thus vastly less govt, esp federal.  More than half of what the fed govt does should be stopped immediately.

For example, I think drugs should be legalized, to end fascistic state tactics in the "drug war".  
Unlike Obama and Clinton, I've never done drugs and will never do drugs, but the individual should have the choice.  And it would end the gang wars and we could treat the people who need it, who could ask for help w/o worrying about the law.

No govt money/backing for housing loans, student loans, no mortgage deductions (the govt shouldn't discriminate against renters), NO business subsidies (farming included), sugar tariffs and subsidies should be ended (which double or more the price of sugar for Americans), etc..  

Of course legitimate business deductions should be allowed for ALL companies, including OIL companies, even though Dems demagogue against it.  Dems want to artificially inflate the price of fossil fuels, which is regressive -- so much for them "caring" about "the 99%" -- and is, again, NO BUSINESS OF THE FED GOVT.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37817341
Interesting Scott. So as a libertarian do you support Ron Paul?

And you downplay the GOP fraud but they can't even do their own primary among their own party without fraud:

http://youtu.be/RU3HnDovu9I

How the hell do they even justify this kind of thing. And it is in most states that they run their primaries/caucuses/straw polls.

Face it. The fraud is everywhere. To think the Dems do it more than the Repubs is just ignorant. They all do it.
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by:ScottPletcher
ID: 37817601
>> To think the Dems do it more than the Repubs is just ignorant. <<

No, that's factual.  Google it you'll see.  VASTLY more cases for Dems.


>> So as a libertarian do you support Ron Paul? <<

Yes.  I voted for Paul.  I don't agree with him on absolutely everything, but he's orders of magnitude better than anyone else running.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37818060
>>Just do a Google for "voter fraud" -- PLENTY of examples.

Most of the examples in my results are for GOP voter fraud against Ron Paul in the Republican primaries.

>>Yes.  I voted for Paul.  I don't agree with him on absolutely everything, but he's orders of magnitude better than anyone else running.

I agree. If he wasn't getting shafted with all the Republican voter fraud I would probably be voting for him myself.
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