Link to home
Start Free TrialLog in
Avatar of purplesoup
purplesoupFlag for United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

asked on

Which philosophy is best to follow?

I wasn't sure the best way to word this. First it was going to be:
Which philosopher best explains the world?

Then I thought "explains the world" tends more towards history and economics, perhaps it should be "makes sense of the human condition"

Then I just wondered on "should we follow"

then I wondered about
Which thinker or group of thinkers would you want your child to follow?

or it could be which philosophy is closest to the truth?

Well any of these could be of interest really..

As some background, I was thinking that there is a lot of discussion - it seems - about God and atheism, but in fact a lot of religious and irreligious people live actually very similar lives: get a job, bring up a family, try to help others, enjoy your free time etc.

For a lot of people consumerism is probably the "philosophy" they follow - we can be fulfilled through what we consume, what we spend our money on...

What are the alternatives? Put your family first - well, family are important, but is there anything else? What happens when the kids leave home?

Politics, save the planet, help a charity?

Well, let's go back to the original question: which philosophy is best to follow?
Avatar of Paul MacDonald
Paul MacDonald
Flag of United States of America image

I advocate for Ferris Bueller:
"I don't believe in -isms."
"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy." - Albert Camus

What keeps you going?
Avatar of Member_2_276102
Member_2_276102

For the entire history of humankind, I'm not aware of a single significant problem of life that has been solved by philosophy.

Tom
Harmlessness
What do you want/expect to obtain in the end by following a certain philosophy?
How much and what are you willing to pay in order to fulfill it?


You know that Jesus Christ was asked a similar question?
No matter if you consider that Jesus lived for real or is a legend from an old book, what Jesus said in terms of philosophy, thinking influenced many people.
His thinking and philosophy of life is very important.
He answered:
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.Love your neighbor as yourself."
Avatar of purplesoup

ASKER

There are plenty of things that keep you engaged with the world and stop you killing yourself, that seems a necessary but not sufficient aspect of how we live - someone might enjoy hurting small animals while another wants to help the homeless, both avoid suicide but are they both equally valid philosophies?

Er, isn't "I don't believe in x" some sort of creed you are following? Again, doesn't seem to amount to much - they guy who enjoys hurting small animals probably doesn't believe in "isms".

What single significant problem of life has been solved? Suppose we say we now have a better material existence - that this is a problem of life that if not solved then at least is better than it was. Was this wealth not created through a system of belief ? Work hard, seek to understand the world, improve our ability to generate wealth.

Or suppose an individual has a significant problem of life - how can I live a worthwhile life? Surely many beliefs have "solved" that problem for that person, many people come across different philosophies of life that help them live a meaningful and worthwhile life.

Being harmless sounds fine - don't hurt others - it means we have gone beyond justifying the guy who spent his time hurting small animals - in fact in many ways it could be quite a profound thought, but it sounds like it needs to be unpacked a bit more. Would harming Hitler count? Is it an ends justifies the means harmlessness or no harm to anything?

Jesus Christ - religion if you like - now we are getting to the nub. Is there any better philosophy of life than a religious philosophy? I've addressed it to some extent in my question - is there really enough in any religion to guide us clearly? But if we don't go the religious route, is there actually any "guide to life" to inspire and help us?
There are many guides religious and philosophical.
It was a moment in my life when I found very profound Laotse with Tao te king.

But then, guide you to what? And help you in what direction? To become what, how? To obtain what?
What is the purpose, the end destination?

Religion has the purpose to re-connect you with God.
Philosophy has the purpose to understand/explain the world.
Well I was just curious to see what was out there.

I don't really buy the "don't follow anything" line because *clearly* people do follow something, they can't agree with everything other people do and they must make choices themselves.

A lot of people today might be clear about what they're against, but I don't see a lot about what they are for - maybe that's just because the world is too confusing and no one wants to claim any sort of understanding of it all. I was watching a guy called Tim Freke on TV last night saying if you don't experience life as a total mystery you really haven't got it, but that didn't stop him having some sort of response to that in terms of how to live.

I do read different philosophers etc, and it just seems to me a real puzzle that no one seems to be able to point to a modern thinker and say "that guy really expresses what I think" - is there any thoughtful person around at the moment who can put their finger on what is important and valuable in life?

I take your point about religion and I really don't have a problem with someone saying they follow a particular religion, my point is that these religions were created in a totally different sort of society and often these religions don't really make a lot of difference to how people live today.
Beside the philosophers that you read, did you ever try (at least by curiosity) to read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?
Read it 2-3 times, because you will not get the important ideas first time and then you will understand different the idea of existence and purpose.
You do not have to become a religious guy, bur I have seen too many people claiming that Jesus message is just simple wise message without reading the books.

I tell you that because I met enough people with life changed 180° by taking the advices from Gospel in serious - as a true life guide and not just as philosophy of life.
Alright then. The thing you've got to watch out for is not to fall in to the trap of reading philosophy just to get good at it. That won't help you if you're looking for something to live by. Philosophy is to be found in just about every decent work of literature, so my advice is to read good books. Here's a list to start with:

Marcus Aurelius Antoninus
Confucius
Charles Dickens
Viki thanks for your suggestions and I do enjoy reading the gospels I have read them all many times. My curiosity behind the question is why are there no contemporary teachers - or are there?

It was interesting that the initial responses were "don't follow anyone" - perhaps, as I suggested earlier, people think life is so complex we all need to make it up as we go along.

Jason210 - this sort of fits in with your suggestion. Maybe the way to do it is to just read various wise/worthy people and pick up what we can from them. I guess this is what a lot of people do - their "philosophy" is just some accumulation of what they have picked up over the years. After all, we must read a thousand times more than our ancestors - even when books were invented they weren't as cheap and accessible as they are today.

But this fragmentation and failure to commit to any particular thinker is interesting. Why is it that no one seems to be able to really come up with a good philosophy of life today that makes sense to a sizeable number of people?

After all, we have a lot more data available today, we know a lot more about other people, other cultures - why hasn't all this data fed through into some wise way of living?

If reading worthy books will give us the right philosophy of life, why can't it be described? Why can't someone who has read all these books tell us what it is about them that makes them "decent".

I'm sure people will say you just have to have the experience of reading them - what you get from them can't be summarised, but that is even more interesting isn't it? Why can't it be?

Actually Alain de Botton makes this point in his recent book "Religion for Atheists" (which you can get a 15 minute summary of in his TED talk here: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0.html) that education assumes that if we teach people about art, science, maths, literature etc they will somehow know how to live - how to face death, how to care for people, how to have a successful marriage - but he points out this just isn't the case, education doesn't magically teach you how to live.

So if Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, Confucius and Charles Dickens are the three people who best teach us how to live, what is it about what they say that makes them so important?
"My curiosity behind the question is why are there no contemporary teachers - or are there?"

What do you mean?
Contemporary teachers of Gospels or of new teachings?

There are both. Will always be. There is only one problem: which one to choose belongs to authority of teachings. When Gospels are inspired by God then who can be above?
>>When Gospels are inspired by God then who can be above?

That statement assumes, of course, that the Gospels are inspired by God.  If one does not assume this, then the statement is essentially meaningless.
But this fragmentation and failure to commit to any particular thinker is interesting. Why is it that no one seems to be able to really come up with a good philosophy of life today that makes sense to a sizeable number of people?

Because if you choose one you exclude the others - and in my view the best way to get to grips with the philosphy of life is to see what all the best thinkers say about it.

I don't know why I mentioned those three books. They came off the top of my head. I do recommend you read Marcus Aurelius. I read that book when I was young and it was very sound. I am still astounded at the profound truths of his writings, given the time they were written. This particular line seems apt:

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.

Here's another:

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

Confucius for his wise sayings, Dickens for his satire and characture of humanity. In fact, there are many good television adaptations of Dickens and other authors - the BBC ones are particularly good.

Another author I suggest you read is Robert Louis Stevenson - try his essays. Leigh Hunt was also a favourite of mine, and if you are American, then you may want to read Emmerson.
You are looking for words of guidance.

The best word is the Living Word.

John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

If you are really looking for guidance words with real effect in your life in the same way as a thirsty man needs water then:
John 7:
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”


But be careful, about the Word is said:
Luke 8:
5 “A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. 6 Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.”
Jason210 - thanks for your suggestions, they were good quotes - I wonder why two of your suggestions were so old - it seems the ancients were ok with telling us what to do, but more recent people are happier telling us what not to do.

Dickens is a good example - he is good at pointing out the bad stuff, clearly when you look at the world of Dickens you can see something has gone horribly wrong - but what is it? What do we do to change it? What is the problem - is it capitalism? Religion? Upbringing?

Karl Popper said it was easier to eliminate the bad in society than promote the good, because we can more easily agree on what has gone wrong than what might be good for us in the future.

I still think your angle of don't follow anyone because you might exclude some is missing my point a bit. I can see that today generally we do consume all sorts of ideas from every source - we read books, watch TV and films, chat, use the internet etc.

It seems to make sense to be open to ideas from every angle - we have so much information coming at us. Yet to be able to process all that information we need some sort of work-in-progress of a philosophy. It is too easy to just let it all wash all over us and not attempt to do more than give a gut reaction to "I like it" or "I don't like it".

If we want to engage with ideas we need some we think are true and worthwhile, some sort of measure. My question really is - what is the conclusion of it all?

"the best way to get to grips with the philosphy of life is to see what all the best thinkers say about it"

my question is - and who has done this and come up with an answer? What do all the best thinkers say about it? Surely there must be someone who is making positive suggestions?

I guess there are, but they fall into three categories:
- self-help books - I don't know if Scott Peck is quite in this category, he seems to be giving some sort of guidance - but usually they have some sort of quasi-mysticism that many will be uncomfortable with;
- philosophers - there are plenty of modern philosophers such as Sartre, Camus, Heidegger, Nietzsche etc but is anyone really trying to put into practise what they teach?
- politicians - our purpose is political, which is all well and good but doesn't really get to us as individuals, although it can address what our values are - do we want a consumer society built on constant growth that is leaving nothing for our children etc?

There are also two groups who aren't - to my mind - really saying much, although they can appear as if they are:

- religions - every religion has so many different shades they end up being all things to all people, you can't ask a religion how to live because there will be a million different answers;
- atheists - although they are very vocal about the evils of religion, they don't seem to me to be teaching anything positive - it seems if we somehow remove religion everything will be great - that isn't really a philosophy

So viki2000 - I really appreciate what you have sent, the gospel of John is a wonderful poem, Jesus in the other gospels tells some fascinating stories, this is really more art than philosophy - it is like showing me an amazing painting or even a beautiful sunset. Our lives would be less if we didn't have these things, but they aren't teaching a philosophy of life, they are showing us what can be valuable in life.

There are plenty of things we need to value in life, but is there a philosophy for today that teaches clearly how to live ?
SOLUTION
Avatar of viki2000
viki2000
Flag of Germany image

Link to home
membership
This solution is only available to members.
To access this solution, you must be a member of Experts Exchange.
Start Free Trial
"the best way to get to grips with the philosphy of life is to see what all the best thinkers say about it"

my question is - and who has done this and come up with an answer? What do all the best thinkers say about it? Surely there must be someone who is making positive suggestions?

I guess there are, but they fall into three categories:
- self-help books - I don't know if Scott Peck is quite in this category, he seems to be giving some sort of guidance - but usually they have some sort of quasi-mysticism that many will be uncomfortable with;
- philosophers - there are plenty of modern philosophers such as Sartre, Camus, Heidegger, Nietzsche etc but is anyone really trying to put into practise what they teach?
- politicians - our purpose is political, which is all well and good but doesn't really get to us as individuals, although it can address what our values are - do we want a consumer society built on constant growth that is leaving nothing for our children etc?

Plenty of people have done it and come up with an answer, but no-one seems to have done it on their own. Funny thing is, everyone seems to have developed their answer on the ideas of other people who also came up with answers. Perhaps it's because other people's ideas are never satisfactory. Their answers may contain some general truths, and we can follow them for a while, but they are tailored made for them not us. It's ok to read what they say, and try to understand and follow it, but at the end of the day, your individuality is part of the equation. Which makes me think of, and recommend, CG Jung, if you want to go deeper.

I think you have to come up with your own answer, like they did. When I consider my own life, there is one word phrase that springs to mind whenever I'm doing some work. "Is this beneficial?" Not just to yourself but generally, in terms of the earth and everyone in it, is your act beneficial? This is a useful way of thinking about actions.  It makes you ponder how products are produced, and who or what might be losing out as result of that, and who benefits. In today's world of capitalism and politics, this idea is expressed in CSR and sustainability. Greed is not beneficial - to anyone. Balance also comes into it.

For me, the key to existence is knowledge, and the ultimate knowledge is knowledge of the Self.  If you begin this line of enquiry, then it gives a sense of purpose and direction in your studies.

http://thyselfknow.com/

Viki's mention of the Bible is not to be ignored. Jesus has some very practical and sound advice on how to live a good life.
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
Link to home
membership
This solution is only available to members.
To access this solution, you must be a member of Experts Exchange.
Start Free Trial
Thanks both of you, I think we've probably reached a logical conclusion and while I know these philosophy questions never really end, I'll split the points, hope you are happy with that.

As we were having this discussion I thought that probably the reason a lot of people won't worry about these sort of questions is because the answer is given already - consume!

Consumerism says we find meaning in our lives through discovering desires and then buying things to meet them - indeed the purpose of society is to create more and more desire, to commercialise as much of life as possible.

It seems the ideal today is to get a computer to monitor our purchasing in order to more accurately feed us with what we want to buy.

The Alain de Botton talk on Atheism 2.0 is perhaps the final stage of religion, as consumerism asset strips religion of all identifiable desires and repackages and resells them back to us.

Even the desire to escape the matrix of consumerism can be packaged and sold to us...
oh yeh - I've always been a bit suspicious of "know thyself".

Does it mean "I'm a middle-aged white man with an interest in computers and football etc etc"

or

does it mean "my soul is immortal" or "the self is an illusion"

i.e. some people use it as just being honest with your own personality, your own strengths and weaknesses, others are just teaching some metaphysical truth about what the "self" is...
Thanks for the points.

Nice remark at the end there.

Regarding knowing yourself. It can mean both, although the first example was too superficial. Taken a step further it means knowing your strengths and weaknesses, and what you can and cannot realistically achieve. This is a matter of increasing self-awareness.

i.e. some people use it as just being honest with your own personality, your own strengths and weaknesses, others are just teaching some metaphysical truth about what the "self" is...

Implying that those talking about metaphysical truth are dishonest? I would agree that many so called "gurus" are perhaps dishonest in this respect, but people can be and often are dishonest about their personalities too, as we see in perosnality tests where people have tendency to project what they imagine themselves to be, rather than what they really are. Or think of the image you try to project on a date, or at a job interview. Dishonesty can sometimes almost be unconscious...

I would say that endeavouring being true to oneself is another great thing to live by.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.
Thank you for the points.
No matter what philosophy of life you will choose please have in mind one more remark:

Matthew 16:26
“What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?”
Had a thought yesterday evening - inner guides such as Jesus (or I guess you could have Marcus Aurelius, Confucius and/or Dickens) probably help people to be honest with themselves - if you are having a conversation with your inner guide you may well be more honest with them than you would be with yourself, and so discover the deeper levels of self-awareness that produces self-knowledge.
Yes, if the purpose is to become a better person, to have Jesus character, to follow His commands. Then you read His words, you understand them , you accept them, you follow them and you meditate in your heart over them.

There are people that may think: "Jesus! Tomorrow I will show you that I am stronger than you, that you are only a legend, a story. I make a plan tonight and tomorrow I will steal from that church, I will kill that person...and you cannot stop me". This kind of inner thinking is obviously not constructive. Important is to have the proper guide as reference, not only to meditate.

From old times, Old Testament, is given the next advice:

Joshua 1:8
"Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful."
I watched 'Hitler's Children' last night, about children and grandchildren whose parents and grandparents were leading Nazis during WW2. It was fascinating how they dealt with the knowledge - in a sense of course it was nothing to do with them, as individuals they had no role in the war as they were not even alive then, but just knowing they were related to someone who had done evil acts made a terrible impact on the lives of those featured on the program.

So in a sense here these people did "know themselves" or had "found their soul" - but it was contaminated with a terrible stain, and now they had to decide what to do about it. One brother and sister had themselves sterilised so the family could die out after them. Others went to live in remote parts of the world cut off from everyone.

But two characters in particular were fascinating.
A man whose father was a Nazi had written a book about the evil his father did, and went round to schools and other groups doing readings to let them know what happened. He said he tried to find one good thing his father had done - someone he had helped - but so far he had found nothing. At the end of the program his daughter said how much she valued what he had done - she said that  he had protected her from the evil, because he had dealt with the history of the family she felt she did not have to. He was very touched by this.

The other guy was the grandson of the commander of Auscwitz - he had contacted a grandson of someone from the camps (who was Jewish) and together they traveled to Auscwitz (neither had been there before). While there he stood in front of a whole room of relations of victims in the camp who were also visiting, he stood there crying over the guilt he felt. A old man who was a survivor came up to him and hugged him - it was very moving.

I don't know if there was a particular creed or philosophy followed by those two - they didn't ask - and I'm not sure there is anything that tells you want to do in those circumstances - but somehow they had been honest with themselves and found how to do the right thing.