?
Solved

Equal outcomes or equal opportunity?

Posted on 2012-08-14
13
Medium Priority
?
80 Views
Last Modified: 2012-08-15

With whom do you agree?



Paul Ryan:  We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes


Obama:  A New Vision Of An America In Which Prosperity Is Shared
0
Comment
Question by:EricLynnWright
  • 5
  • 4
  • 2
  • +1
13 Comments
 
LVL 17

Assisted Solution

by:Anthony Russo
Anthony Russo earned 68 total points
ID: 38291988
I agree with equal opportunity. I just don't agree with the way Paul Ryan chooses to get there. It cannot be all or nothing though. Our society cannot leave those to starve because they did not work as hard as those that prosper.

Balance. There's that word again.
0
 
LVL 29

Accepted Solution

by:
leonstryker earned 68 total points
ID: 38293453
>Our society cannot leave those to starve because they did not work as hard as those that prosper.

Why not?

I am willing to lend a hand to someone who missteped, but not to support them for the rest of their life at my expense.
0
 
LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:Anthony Russo
ID: 38293475
>>Why not?

As illogical and economically dumb as it might seem to keep supporting those that don't support themselves, it has a good 'feeling' to it for society.

Agree or not, society likes to have a good feeling and it will do what it takes to keep that.
0
Free Tool: Subnet Calculator

The subnet calculator helps you design networks by taking an IP address and network mask and returning information such as network, broadcast address, and host range.

One of a set of tools we're offering as a way of saying thank you for being a part of the community.

 
LVL 3

Author Comment

by:EricLynnWright
ID: 38293502
>>Agree or not, society likes to have a good feeling and it will do what it takes to keep that.

Society has every right to do it.  But the government should not steal the hard earned money of producers and give to those who CHOOSE deadbeat status.
0
 
LVL 29

Expert Comment

by:leonstryker
ID: 38293521
>Agree or not, society likes to have a good feeling and it will do what it takes to keep that.

Societies change. The "good feeling society" is a rather new thing we imported from Western Europe in the last 100 years. It seems to be a curse of affluence. But have no fear, it appears to be a self-correcting trend. As soon as the society squanders its wealth, its attitudes adjust to a survival mode ... or it is destroyed.

Parallels to the Roman Empire are getting uncanny.
0
 
LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:Anthony Russo
ID: 38293551
>>Society has every right to do it.

But they wont do it on their own. That's why the government does it.

>>But the government should not steal the hard earned money of producers and give to those who CHOOSE deadbeat status.

There are more in that status than there are people with the ability to help them that will volunteer to do so. I see your point of it not being fair, but it is felt by most of society "the right thing to do" so that is what government does.

This illustrates the point pretty nicely I think:

From this comedy site, but relevant: 5 Shocking Ways You Overestimate Yourself | Cracked.com : http://www.cracked.com/article_19177_5-shocking-ways-you-overestimate-yourself.html

#4. We Think We're Nicer Than We Are

Imagine that tomorrow you run across a person in need -- say a co-worker loses everything he owns in a fire, and everybody is making donations to help him out. In your imagination, how much would you give? Now cut that amount in half. That's how much you'd give if the situation actually presented itself.

See, no matter how much we make self-deprecating jokes or talk about how we suck and play the role of the lovable loser, experiments show that deep down, we think we are nicer and more generous than we actually are. Psychologists have long known that people tend to think they are more altruistic than the world in general, but researchers weren't sure if that was because we overestimate how great we are or because we underestimate everyone else. Hint: It's the first one.

Which brings us to the hypothetical situation above. A study at Cornell found that over the course of two experiments, of the participants who said they would donate to a charity (a staggering 80 percent), only half actually did when given the chance. Those who did donate gave only half as much as they previously said they would.
But, strangely, the amount of money donated in reality was close to what the participants predicted others would contribute. In other words, we have a pretty accurate idea of how selfish the rest of the world is, but in our imaginations, we don't perceive ourselves as being members of "the world." We all picture ourselves as members of an "elite moral minority."

It wasn't just with money, either. Another study involved predicting whether subjects would take on a complex task rather than an easy one when they knew somebody else would get stuck with the task they didn't take. Most people thought, "Of course I'll do the harder task! It's only fair," but when actually presented with the task, they were far more likely to pawn it off on the other person ... even if they were told that person was a 10-year-old girl. Buckle your ass down, little Suzy!
0
 
LVL 29

Expert Comment

by:leonstryker
ID: 38293737
>I see your point of it not being fair, but it is felt by most of society "the right thing to do" so that is what government does.

The problem is when the government determines what is "the right thing to do". This is the root of Socialism. Works great until you run out of other peoples monies.
0
 
LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:Anthony Russo
ID: 38293759
>>The problem is when the government determines what is "the right thing to do".

I agree. Nazi Germany thought it was doing the right thing too.
0
 
LVL 2

Assisted Solution

by:beetos
beetos earned 64 total points
ID: 38294102
Nazi Germany?  Root of socialism?   Stealing from the Producers?

You guys need a glass of warm milk and a nap - you're letting your boogeymen fears get the better of you.
0
 
LVL 29

Expert Comment

by:leonstryker
ID: 38295653
>You guys need a glass of warm milk and a nap - you're letting your boogeymen fears get the better of you.

I would get one, but you keep slaughtering the cows to reduce the quantity of methane in the ozone.
0
 
LVL 3

Author Comment

by:EricLynnWright
ID: 38296025
>>But they wont do it on their own. That's why the government does it.

I personally give more of my income to charity that Joe Biden.  Liberals are generous with other's money.
0
 
LVL 17

Expert Comment

by:Anthony Russo
ID: 38296052
>>I personally give more of my income to charity that Joe Biden.  Liberals are generous with other's money.

And if everyone that could donate to charity as much as you do would do it, then we wouldn't have a problem. However that isn't what happens.

On the other side if less people needed the help, then we also wouldn't have the problem.
0
 
LVL 2

Expert Comment

by:beetos
ID: 38296802
I would get one, but you keep slaughtering the cows to reduce the quantity of methane in the ozone.

Count sheep instead!   Besides that's not even true - we love that fresh dairy air!
0

Featured Post

Free Tool: Site Down Detector

Helpful to verify reports of your own downtime, or to double check a downed website you are trying to access.

One of a set of tools we are providing to everyone as a way of saying thank you for being a part of the community.

Question has a verified solution.

If you are experiencing a similar issue, please ask a related question

Learn more about the importance of email disclaimers with our top 10 email disclaimer DOs and DON’Ts.
Get an idea of what you should include in an email disclaimer with these Top 5 email disclaimer tips.
When cloud platforms entered the scene, users and companies jumped on board to take advantage of the many benefits, like the ability to work and connect with company information from various locations. What many didn't foresee was the increased risk…
Kernel Data Recovery is a renowned Data Recovery solution provider which offers wide range of softwares for both enterprise and home users with its cost-effective solutions. Let's have a quick overview of the journey and data recovery tools range he…
Suggested Courses

578 members asked questions and received personalized solutions in the past 7 days.

Join the community of 500,000 technology professionals and ask your questions.

Join & Ask a Question