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Biden vs. Ryan

Forget about Obama and Romney (assume they both withdrew for whatever reasons). If the presidental race was Biden vs. Ryan who would make a better president? Why?
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leonstryker
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leonstryker
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3 Solutions
 
EricLynnWrightCommented:
The biggest issues I see facing the country are the national debt, unemployment, energy dependence, and potential chaos in the middle east (Iran/Israel).

Debt:
-Biden serving under the biggest spending president in US history.  Part of an administration pushing the country to fiscal collapse, one that's never had a budget.

-Ryan proposed a budget plan, calls for entitlement reform, and cuts in spending.


Unemployment:
-Biden serving under a socialist leaning administration that has yet to net one new job.  Real unemployment at 15%, official unemployment at 8.3%.  Biden favors higher taxes on those who actually produce in the country.

-Ryan, in a complete 180 of Biden, advocates history proven free market policies.


Energy dependence:
-Biden opposes drilling for our own natural resources.  Proposes adding additional regulations that produce higher costs to consumers.

-Ryan proposes increasing domestic production, less regulations, increases in exploration


Middle east :
-Biden part of the most anti-Israeli administration in US history.  Naive in thinking diplomacy with Iran will work.  Biden in favor of military cuts, making the US weaker in an overly dangerous world.

-Ryan proposes to ease defense spending cuts.  Takes a pro-Israeli approach.


Finally, Giuliani is right on the mark.
I mean, this guy just isn’t bright. He’s never been bright. He isn’t bright. And people think, ‘Well, he just talks a little too much.’ Actually he’s just not very smart.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Pretty straight split right down the party talking points Eric.

I don't like a lot of what Ryan wants to do, but Biden seems like too much of a Schmuck to be president. I'd go with Ryan on this one.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>I don't like a lot of what Ryan wants to do,

such as...?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Financially I think he is obviously a better pick, but his social stances more than bother me. Of course the conservative way is to think money and the liberal way is to think social.

I vote for a person in comparison to the person they are running against. Ryan over Biden I think is the right choice. If a better democrat was running, then I probably would pick them over Ryan.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>If a better democrat was running, then I probably would pick them over Ryan.


So you'd rather the country go down the tubes financially just so a woman can murder her baby or have schools require kids read "Jill has two mommies"?

(serious question)
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>So you'd rather the country go down the tubes financially just so a woman can murder her baby or have schools require kids read "Jill has two mommies"?

No. Just as I would rather not have raped women and 13 year old victims of incest have to bear those babies. You want to use extremes, then so will I.

I wouldn't vote for someone who honestly "requires" Jill has two mommies be read in school. I on the other hand would be more against requiring a school to teach religion in a science classroom.

While you bring up Jill has two mommies like the President or VP initialized a movement to have it be a school requirement, you know it was just some left wing over-zealous group. Just as I know the right-wing over-zealous groups are pushing the crappy creationism in the schools as science.

The reality is that both these guys are not that extreme in either direction. Biden can be a bufoon a lot of times but he knows more about running the country than Ryan does (go ahead and link to articles to refute this, it's an off the cuff line as I haven't researched him honestly but you get my point). Ryan can seem a heartless guy for only the rich, but he is way better at managing the budget I'm sure than Biden.

Over the course of the election period I would research and learn all I can about the two of them from a variety of news sources of both left/right persuasion, and then make a choice based on who I think is going to do best for this country.

How many of you would do that, or do you just vote down your party lines no matter what the talking head says?
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beetosCommented:
Well Biden would certainly be the more entertaining President!

I'm sure all the late night hosts, pundits and comedians would LOVE to have Biden for Pres.

Ryan, while he preaches the economic philosophy conservatives love to hear, would likely destroy the social safety net in this country and accelerate the transfer of wealth to the top 1% while decimating what's left of the middle class.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>or do you just vote down your party lines no matter what the talking head says?

No way I'd vote for a democrat and no way I'd throw away a vote for a candidate that couldn't win.  I'm stuck Republican.


>>Over the course of the election period I would research and learn all I can about the two of them

What else do we need to know about Biden?  Racist, left wing, idiot.

>>Well Biden would certainly be the more entertaining President!

I prefer my president to not be entertaining.


>>would likely destroy the social safety net

I think you mean preserve.  Liberals tend to believe there's an unlimited supply of money.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>No way I'd vote for a democrat and no way I'd throw away a vote for a candidate that couldn't win.  I'm stuck Republican.

It is sad that you have decided to give away your ability to reason and think for yourself. To blindly do what someone tells you to do is the real first step towards slavery, despite how much you think democrats might be leading the country that way.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>It is sad that you have decided to give away your ability to reason and think for yourself. To blindly do what someone tells you to do is the real first step towards slavery, despite how much you think democrats might be leading the country that way.


I'd be glad to vote for a democrat if you can show me one that believes in the Constitution, rule of law, lower spending, balanced budgets, etc....
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Yea, I get that. However there are occasions where there is an idiot running on the republican side, and a good, smart, moderate democrat running. To not give that person even consideration over the idiot, even if they don't agree with all your ideals, turns you just into a blind lever puller. Semi-trained monkeys can do that too. Why let yourself be reduced to that?
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>However there are occasions where there is an idiot running on the republican side, and a good, smart, moderate democrat running. To not give that person even consideration

In that event, I would consider someone like Lieberman.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
So is Eric now an Independent, thinking-for-himself voter????
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
I'm going to vote for the most conservative candidate that can win.  If that's a Democrat, then I guess I'd vote for him.  Rarely, if ever, is that the case.
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leonstrykerAuthor Commented:
Interesting side note, it appears that Biden will be heading to Tampa next week at the same time as the Republican Convention. I believe his job will be to grab attention anyway possible even if it is by making even a bigger fool of himself. Pretty low in my opinion, considering that up to now it has been an unstated agreement that both parties stay out of each others Conventions.

Just another way this election is turning uglier and uglier.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>Biden will be heading to Tampa next

Wonder if he thought there was a KKK convention?
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>> it appears that Biden will be heading to Tampa next week

Republican Convention Threatened by Storm


I can only assume that God does not want any racist, anti-American, big spending liberals at the convention.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>I can only assume that God does not want any racist, anti-American, big spending liberals at the convention.

Tropical storm Isaac, which is gathering strength in the Caribbean, could strike Florida, hurricane forecasters say, triggering concern it might force a postponement or cancellation of the Republican National Convention in Tampa next week.

Or maybe it means God don't want the GOP to have their little convention.



But in reality it just means that:

Hurricanes start when warm, moist air from the ocean surface begins to rise rapidly, where it encounters cooler air that causes the warm water vapor to condense and to form storm clouds and drops of rain. The condensation also releases latent heat, which warms the cool air above, causing it to rise and make way for more warm humid air from the ocean below.

As this cycle continues, more warm moist air is drawn into the developing storm and more heat is transferred from the surface of the ocean to the atmosphere. This continuing heat exchange creates a wind pattern that spirals around a relatively calm center, or eye, like water swirling down a drain.

Converging winds near the surface of the water collide, pushing more water vapor upward, increasing the circulation of warm air, and accelerating the speed of the wind. At the same time, strong winds blowing steadily at higher altitudes pull the rising warm air away from the storm’s center and send it swirling into the hurricane’s classic cyclone pattern.

High-pressure air at high altitudes, usually above 30,000 feet (9,000 meters), also pull heat away from the storm’s center and cool the rising air. As high-pressure air is drawn into the low-pressure center of the storm, the speed of the wind continues to increase.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
Another thing we may see with Biden is the continued outsourcing of jobs, just as is done with his current boss.



Biden’s ‘good friend,’ donor receives $20M federal loan to open foreign luxury car dealership in Ukraine
In late July, John Hynansky — a longtime friend of Vice President Joe Biden, and a major donor to Biden’s campaigns as well as President Barack Obama’s — was awarded a $20 million taxpayer loan to build a foreign-car dealership in Ukraine.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>Biden’s ‘good friend,’ donor receives $20M federal loan to open foreign luxury car dealership in Ukraine

<SARCASM>That's right! Only Democrats are giving special favors and paying off their friends and big doners. I'm sure no Republican would ever do something like this? Those politicians are just honest good people.</SARCASM>
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>Only Democrats are giving special favors and paying off their friends


It would be like Michael Jordan playing a blind paraplegic 1st grader in a game of basketball.

Guess who's MJ?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>It would be like Michael Jordan playing a blind paraplegic 1st grader in a game of basketball.

I don't get this analogy at all.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>I don't get this analogy at all.

To use a joe biden: "come on, man"

I can post links all day long showing Obama paying off unions and political donors.  It's not even close to compare them to Republicans.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>I can post links all day long showing Obama paying off unions and political donors.  It's not even close to compare them to Republicans.

Right back at you: "Come on man!"

Do you honestly believe your Republicans are in the slightest bit different about paybacks and kickbacks than Democrats? I assure you there are an equal number of corrupt politicians on both sides of the aisle. You can find more Obama things now because he is president now. Don't be so naive.

If you believe in Republican values and goals over Democrats then fine. Don't put them on some kind of pedestal though that they do no wrong or even less wrong. They are all politicians playing the same game.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>You can find more Obama things now because he is president now.

(1) He campaigned against this. (2) It's extremely lopsided.  Not even close.



>>Don't put them on some kind of pedestal though that they do no wrong or even less wrong.

Didn't say that.  But to EQUATE them to Democrats is off the charts incorrect.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>(1) He campaigned against this.

Of course he did. He was selling Hope and Change. He of course is going to change corruption and kickbacks in his campaign.

>>(2) It's extremely lopsided.  Not even close.

How would we even know that. 5 years ago the Internet was not what it is today with social sharing and everything everywhere. Bush could have done just as much in his 8 years as Obama does now. There is not going to be as much info out there to find though as info wasn't as freely shared around as it is today.

>>But to EQUATE them to Democrats is off the charts incorrect.

You can't count the President or VP or Sec of State and offices like that because they get more focus. But I'm sure I could find as many crooked Republicans in congress as you could find Democrats. I really don't want to bother though but there is equal crappy kickbacks, favors, swindling on both sides of the aisle. Just as there are equal gaffes, idiots, and jerks on both sides.

They have different policies and push for different things, but as far as being politicians and the way they operate, there is little to no difference in left or right side.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>They have different policies and push for different things, but as far as being politicians and the way they operate, there is little to no difference in left or right side.


Absolutely false, but I would love to see you back those comments up.  

Obama's whole presidency has been circled around payoffs to unions and donors (BIG MONEY).  Most dishonest, corrupt administration in US history.  Blows my mind how anyone with an ounce of sense could pull the Obama/Biden ticket...well, unless you're in a union and need to be paid off.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
You honestly believe that Bush didn't have payoffs and favors and crap to his big doners and friends. You think if Iraq wasn't sitting on an ocean of oil that he would have gone in there like he did?

I assure you could find a ton more Obama stuff because today the Internet lets us find tons more information. I assure you the next President will have just as much corruption and stuff as Obama now. Also you will find an equal amount for the one after that and so on. Going backwards there was nowhere near the ability for average people to find out so much about what is going on. Today and going forward it is simple for those that look for it.

You can live in your little bubble of "my party are the good guys" but I don't buy it. Both are the same. Neither good nor evil. They help their friends, their doners, and themselves . They have an agenda of policies in how they want to see the country run and that is where they differ, but both think they are doing the right thing for the country, and are just politicians.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>You think if Iraq wasn't sitting on an ocean of oil that he would have gone in there like he did?

Every Dem voted for the war, except Ted Kennedy.  And where's the oil?


>>Both are the same.

You can't equate them.  Like saying everyone runs, olympic athletes run, therefore everyone is an Olympic athlete.


>>You honestly believe that Bush didn't have payoffs and favors

Bush didn't buyout GM and highly favor the unions.  Bush didn't payroll political donors that front as solar companies.  Bush didn't use the stimulus as a union slush fund or fund to pay off stations favorable to his policies.  I can keep going.

Labor Department spent $500G in stimulus on green-job ad blitz on Olbermann, Maddow
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beetosCommented:
You honestly believe that Bush didn't have payoffs and favors and crap to his big doners and friends. You think if Iraq wasn't sitting on an ocean of oil that he would have gone in there like he did?

Possibly.   Remember there's another group with ties to the Bush administration that got a HUUUUUUUGE payoff from that war:   Cheney and his good friends at Haliburton.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Have you missed the point that you can find a ton more on Obama than Bush because of the availability of information today? We don't know what the hell Presidents did before Obama as we only had the mass media to get our information from. There was no research that could easily be done. No investigating sources of stories. At least not for the common person to do. I know everything said of what Obama has done. I know everything said of what Bush has done. There is more on Obama because it is more available.

Try this for an equal test. Find an alphabetical list of all of Congress today split into Democrats and Republicans. Pick the 5th 15th 25th 35th and 45th names on each side and see what crap you can find about them. I'm sure they will be equal.

Comparing Presidents of different information eras is not equal ground.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>Cheney and his good friends at Haliburton.

Apparently you missed Obama giving Haliburton no bid contracts, and you missed the fact that Cheney gave up interest in the company once signing on to be VP.

And apparently you missed this:
Obama Administration Steers Lucrative No-Bid Contract for Afghan Work to Dem Donor




>>Comparing Presidents of different information eras is not equal ground.

Should be easy to find Bush data as opposed to Obama.  90% of the media is liberal and covers for him.




>>Try this for an equal test.

Obama has Obamacare now.  Just as he's done with the waivers, you can guarantee he'll punish and reward based on politics.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>Apparently you missed Obama giving Haliburton no bid contracts, and you missed the fact that Cheney gave up interest in the company once signing on to be VP.

You think he broke ties completely and had no friends there? Really?

>>Obama has Obamacare now.  Just as he's done with the waivers, you can guarantee he'll punish and reward based on politics.

And this has to do with "Try this for an equal test." how?
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>You think he broke ties completely and had no friends there? Really?

He probably shot one for all I know.  But he didn't gain financially.



>>And this has to do with "Try this for an equal test." how?

Healthcare is 20% of the economy and Obamacare is complete piece of total shit (sorry to insult shit).   So many ways to reward political donors.
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beetosCommented:
He probably shot one for all I know.  But he didn't gain financially.

Oh no, Cheney didn't gain power, influence, favors, or finance in anyway because he's an angel and not like other politicians right?    But I'm sure you have the utmost confidence because if there's one thing Cheney's known for, it's transparency.



Healthcare is 20% of the economy and Obamacare is complete piece of total shit (sorry to insult shit).   So many ways to reward political donors.

You mean like all the kids who are now covered?  All the kids who can stay on their parent's plans till they're 26?   All the people who lose their jobs due to illness or accidents who will be able to afford the insurance that they lost when they lost their jobs so they can over their accidents or illnesses?   Or maybe the people with "pre-existing" conditions who can now get insurance?  

You're right - pure shit.   Speaking of - didn't YOUR candidate enact almost the SAME EXACT THING when he was governor?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>He probably shot one for all I know.

Exactly. We don't know because everyone didn't know everyone's business in that era. Today you would sure as hell know every bit of it.

>>But he didn't gain financially.

He gained with his friends. They gained financially and he gained favors. You really think he had no special interest to Haliburton?

>>Healthcare is 20% of the economy and Obamacare is complete piece of total shit (sorry to insult shit).   So many ways to reward political donors.

And I repeat: And this has to do with "Try this for an equal test." how?

Compare equal senators from an alphabetical list. That would be fair grounds.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>Oh no, Cheney didn't gain power, influence, favors, or finance in anyway

>>He gained with his friends.

Is this what they're saying on the Daily Kooks web page?



>>And I repeat: And this has to do with "Try this for an equal test." how?

Do I really have to spell this out?  Obama now has a major influence over 20% of the economy.  (HINT: unions and those in Pelosi's district that get all the waivers).



>>Speaking of - didn't YOUR candidate enact almost the SAME EXACT THING when he was governor?

I don't live in MA.



>>You're right - pure shit.  

If you want to bankrupt the country, Obamacare is the way to go.  If you want the cost of medical treatments to go up, then Obamacare is for you.  If you want employers not to hire, then Obamacare is what you need.
CBO to employers: Obamacare has $4B more in taxes than expected
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beetosCommented:
Is this what they're saying on the Daily Kooks web page?


You tell us - that seems to be your home page!
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>Is this what they're saying on the Daily Kooks web page?

You need a web page to tell you that if someone works in a high level with a company for years,  they would have friends in high places there and interests? Wake up man!

>>(HINT: unions and those in Pelosi's district that get all the waivers).

Yea, I get your point of what you are saying but it in no way counts as some kind of test of equality of the morals of democrats and republicans as you are not testing any republicans in equal standing, (since we have only one president).

My test that I laid out would be a fair test of both sides. I for one don't want to bother, but if you are the one stating the claim that one side is more worse than the other, feel free to test it.
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beetosCommented:
Give it up Anthony, ELW has never been one to care about facts, science, or empirical data.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>My test that I laid out would be a fair test of both sides.

There is nothing to test.  The facts are in our face.  If you're a union, deadbeat but can still vote, or a political donor, this administration will, without a doubt, reward you.



>>ELW has never been one to care about...science

Aren't you the one that believes in the phony man-mad global warming nonsense?
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beetosCommented:
Aren't you the one who believes all conservative candidates are saints?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
I'm the one who believes data and evidence under equal and fair conditions.
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beetosCommented:
There's no data or evidence of that!
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>There's no data or evidence of that!

Of what?
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>Of what?

Anything he says
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beetosCommented:
I'm the one who believes data and evidence under equal and fair conditions.

My mistake,  I thought this post was from Eric.

I apologize to both of you.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>I apologize to both of you.

All in fun, man.  Never need to apologize.


One thing I know is that of all the picks in 2008, the democrats gave us probably the worst of the bunch.  It's hard to say if this would've happened under a Biden presidency:
American incomes declined more in the three-year expansion that started in June 2009 than during the longest recession since the Great Depression, according an analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data by Sentier Research LLC.


SOURCE
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beetosCommented:
That's a bit misleading Eric, as the shit hit the fan in 2008.   It would have happened under any President.  

Time and again you ignore the cause of the recession and just blame Obama for the results.  

Further, incomes haven't declined for the top 10%, they've actually increased due to changes in tax policies that favor the wealthy.


One thing I know is that of all the picks in 2008, the democrats gave us probably the worst of the bunch.

Are you saying Palin wasn't the worst of the bunch?
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>Time and again you ignore the cause of the recession and just blame Obama for the results.

I don't blame Obama for the housing crisis, yet the policies he believes in are what caused it.   It's simple - can't give loans to those that can't pay.

Obama just made things worse.


>>tax policies that favor the wealthy.

You mean policies that let them keep the money they worked hard for and earned.


>>Are you saying Palin wasn't the worst of the bunch?

If you listen to the media and its constant pounding, then, yeah, she might have been the worst.  But if you look on ideas and policies, she's perfect.

Where's the pounding of Biden and his idiotic comments?
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beetosCommented:
I don't blame Obama for the housing crisis, yet the policies he believes in are what caused it.   It's simple - can't give loans to those that can't pay.

That's where you're wrong - the cause of the housing bubble and the devastation it caused to global financial markets was deregulation that allowed banks to grow to "too big to fail" status, and engage in risky investment trading including derivative loans.   Seeing the profit in this, a whole industry of predatory loans sprang up, steering borrowers into risky adjustable loans that were designed to fail rather than traditional fixed loans that they would have been able to afford.


You mean policies that let them keep the money they worked hard for and earned.

No.   This is the conservative lie that we all have equal opportunities and therefore should all pay the same in taxes.   Why does Romney, who makes millions every year, pay a lower tax rates than a manual laborer who makes less than $100k?  

Where's the pounding of Biden and his idiotic comments?
 

On every news channel every time it happens.   The problem with Palin is that she's all snark, completely vindictive, distanced from reality, and was completely incompetent to hold the office of vice president.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>global financial markets was deregulation

Incorrect.  Too much regulation.  It's simple - banks were forced to make loans to those who couldn't afford it.  Banks sold the notes to fannie/freddie.  Loans went bad, tax payers lost millions, houses sat empty, property went down.  Then we put a community organizer in office.


>> Why does Romney, who makes millions every year, pay a lower tax rates than a manual laborer

Why does Romney have to contribute more of his money to Obama's union slush funds or Solyndra?  He pays more than his fair share.  A lot of his lower rate is due to the type of income and the fact he donates a lot to charity (something liberals don't do).


>>The problem with Palin ...distanced from reality

In liberalville, I bet she is.  She doesn't believe there's an endless source of money and that we can keep spending with no consequences.  


>>was completely incompetent to hold the office

Not going to play that card, are we?  You voted for a community organizer with ZERO experience and shady associates.  Compare that to a governor.
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beetosCommented:
Not going to play that card, are we?  You voted for a community organizer with ZERO experience and shady associates.  Compare that to a governor.

It's not a card, it's the truth.  She couldn't even debate, all she could do was act.  The gullible voting sheep you always deride ate it up - but they were Republican voters.

You mean a US Senator compared with a governor of a state with the population of a small city who quit after serving 1/2 of a term.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>She couldn't even debate,

She kicked biden's ass in the VP debate.  



>>You mean a US Senator

I have pimples on my ass that have been there longer than he was a senator.   He'd never been responsible for anything, never been held accountable, never had to show results.  


>> a governor of a state

responsible for a budget, accountable, executive experience.
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beetosCommented:
So you'd be comfortable with Palin as President?
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
>>So you'd be comfortable with Palin as President

Without a doubt!

I guarantee we'd have much better results now had she been president in 2008.  

I think i'll open up this as a question.
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EricLynnWrightCommented:
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