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screen dots appearing in white areas at printer

Posted on 2012-08-28
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Last Modified: 2012-09-09
I created a photo image (a skyline) where the background was dropped out, then place in Illustrator, where a frame and type was applied, at last a press quality pdf was created, on my end the white area prints and reads at zero but on their end the white area prints with a dot.

They claim its in the file but no matter what I do I cannot re-create a dot in the white area other then changing the background color. The main images is a two color duotone with a white backgound no color no screen.

Wheesy
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Question by:Wheesy
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Expert Comment

by:ddhamm
ID: 38345902
We might need to see a PDF - it sounds like when the background got removed from the skyline photo, some small pieces could not have been removed.

Have you zoomed in really close to look at the background?

DeeDee
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Author Comment

by:Wheesy
ID: 38346469
No, it is completely removed,  I have ripped it on my end to several different devices, Rampage, copiers, and there is no screen, no dot. The  printer send back separations to me and there is clearly a screen image where the white areas are, but there is no screen in the transparent areas of the frame. meaning the picture does not fill the entire frame. Am only trying to duplicate the error so I know what I can and can not do with the files I send them.

Thanks
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Expert Comment

by:ddhamm
ID: 38346827
Well it is hard to tell what happened without seeing the files you sent to the printer (or a pdf of the artwork that you prepared for the printer)
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Author Comment

by:Wheesy
ID: 38348383
I must have reposted the pdf some where else, so here they are again. I see the shape of the screen box but I have not been able the recreate telling me what went wrong, I also know how I can fix it, but I still would like to find the error. . .any ideas would be helpful.

Thanks
My.pdf
Printer-seps.pdf
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Expert Comment

by:ddhamm
ID: 38348664
Your artwork looks like it would have a white background - I really don't know why the printer separations are showing it as having color. Probably something happened when the duotone was made. There may be some more technical way to remove the background (but I selected it and deleted it) and it looks good to me.

I made a photoshop file and removed the background, then made a .tif for you to place into your file. I will attach both - I think by removing the background it can't have any color in it - you could try replacing your image with the .tif file I am attaching to see if it works.

DeeDee
Duotone.zip
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Expert Comment

by:David Brugge
ID: 38348947
You are correct that the sky is solid white in the original pdf -- with the exception of a single pixel at 217 across and 79 pixels down that measures C-3% M-1% Y-1% K-0%, but that is nothing that would in any way cause a misreading of the entire sky area.

It looks to me like a conversion error from one color space to another. When you say that you created a duotone, I assume that that was in Photoshop? What format did you use to export it into Illustrator? And what color profile did you use?
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Author Comment

by:Wheesy
ID: 38349760
Thanks DeeDee, and D_Brugge

D_Brugge yes the duotone was created in ps. I just placed the eps in illustrator then I added the frame and type, save it as pdf with no color conversion no color profiles.

I also went else where and opened it up both on the mac side and windows, ripped into rampage, did seprations with few different color profile through arocbat and I sill keep the original file intact. I believe it is on their I just needed to check all my bases. Next step is to call and ask how they covert files and what where using for output.  

Thanks again
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Accepted Solution

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David Brugge earned 1500 total points
ID: 38356616
You are correct, duotones do not need profiles since they are handled as spot colors. I was curious to see if you went through any intermediate step.

My experience with Duotones is limited. I can only remember using them three times in my life and in each case I placed them in Quark. The only surprises that ever came were when I hadn't ordered a draw down on the ink/paper combination.

So yes, the question to the printer must be, "What did you do with my files?"

Please let us know the response.
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Author Comment

by:Wheesy
ID: 38357252
I'll keep you posted

Thanks
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Expert Comment

by:ddhamm
ID: 38357927
I agree, the file seemed to have been separated incorrectly - but then duotones are very difficult to work with in printing (it's hard to control the spot colors on them).  I too would love to hear what the printer's response is!

DeeDee
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Author Comment

by:Wheesy
ID: 38369416
Well I talked to the printer, and they state that in can't be on their end due to the fact they output thousands of files with no problems, also they cannot help me because they don't know photoshop. Needless to say I was a little frustrated. I don't pretend to know it all but after 20 plus years of pre-press experience I have some insight of the work flow. I do know am working with CS5.5 and or CS6 and they use CS3 placing my pdf in Indesign then ripping to their output device (Film). I can send a new file removing the white which I believe would help them but they would  be charging for a second output. As I said in prior posts I have tested the file on several computers and output devices my file does't not print with a screen in the white areas, in stays intact . . .

Wheesy
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Expert Comment

by:ddhamm
ID: 38369997
I think their output is very sensitive or high resolution (shows more detail than most of the pinters we use) and that is why the light gray is showing up.

Well I am pretty sure the arwork I sent would work -because i removed the background and replaced it with white, however, I hate to have you pay again at that printer. I wonder if you should use a different printer?

Or, instead of paying for separations only, possibly pay them to edit that image in a way that they can assure you the area will not print any color.

DeeDee
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Author Comment

by:Wheesy
ID: 38370427
Thanks for your input DeeDee but I read no gray or color in my file (my is white). Any color came from their output. I know how to fix the file thats not the problem, I think their output device is of  the older nature due to the fact I ran it though more that one rip up thats up to date with no screen in the white areas. The problem is that I needed film on this file and it getting harder to find anyone you still uses film.

Anyhow am still waiting on some more fee back, I'll post any news if I hear soon, however if I don't hear in a day or so, am  going to delet this post.

Thanks for your efforts!
Wheesy
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Expert Comment

by:David Brugge
ID: 38375164
>am  going to delet this post.

I think what you mean is that you will close the post (by selecting either your own answer or one of the others) The post will still be in the knowledge base should someone else come up with the same problem. Although there is no solution here, it is sometimes nice to know that you are not alone with a problem and to also know before hand that a solution is hard to find.


Yes, finding someone to output file is getting harder and harder. It sounds like the reason that these folks are still outputting film is because they are stuck in the stone age (technology wise). I would be very leery of a printer who "doesn't know photoshop."

And yes, I concur with you. There was no gray in the file. No matter what the sensitivity, 0 is still 0. The output had to be a conversion error. The question remains, what caused the error and how to avoid it in the future. If I can remember, I'll give a call to a couple of old school printers to see if they have experience in ripping duotones in illustrator. For the record, what pdf settings did you use?
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Author Comment

by:Wheesy
ID: 38375630
Am new to this sight so I thought I might have to delet the post if it was inactive and or no solution was found. . .

Exported a Press quality pdf Please let me know it you find any thing

Thanks
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Expert Comment

by:ddhamm
ID: 38379887
Thank you David!
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Author Closing Comment

by:Wheesy
ID: 38381071
Found no real answer to by question but good people will to help
Thanks
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