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Apple vs. Samsung...

Posted on 2012-08-30
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Dear fellow experts,
I'm sure many of you have heard about the violation of patient laws Apple holds against Samsung, and I'm sure you have opinions favoring either. Some might say that this is down-right B.S. (along with myself), but I would like to hear some opinions on the matter. But first, here is something to think about before posting your comments:

Apple iPhone:
Sure, it is the most popular phone on the market, and sure they made technology more "mainstream," but let's look at the direction Apple is going as of right now.

Apple has more legal battles than any other company (in the mobile phone aspect) and also the most bridges burned. For example, this lawsuit will potentially halt trust in business and production on the A5X chip that Samsung manufactures for Apple on the New iPad (aka iPad 3).

From a legal standpoint, Apple does have the upper hand holding the patients to features we all know and love. I can't imagine a smartphone where you can't use pinch gestures, swipe to unlock, or even a phone that doesn't look like a smartphone (trade dress). If we didn't have these features, we would appear very lame at work showing off a new app on a flip-phone. I'm sure all of you will agree, who wouldn't laugh at a "Zack Morris" phone if you saw one?

Funny how some Apple acolytes say, "Apple did it first," but oblivious to know that most of the features they actually didn't come up with. Some companies that did come up with awesome ideas ended up getting "gobbled up" by Apple. "Oh, they have a good idea...Let's buy them!" became a common saying on the Apple board meetings. Nothing is bad about that statement at all, it makes a lot of sense and is a great business strategy that every successful company does. After all, it's about making money. But you still can't say they did it first...

Samsung and Android phones:
Awesome as they may be for having an open source OS with many free apps everyone can enjoy, they are in clear violation of patient laws. Shame on them for stealing Apple ideas, right?! Wrong!

The patients that Apple holds on "intellectual property" are mostly bologna. Features and ideas they hold patients for have been around before Apple acquired them. For example, the "trade dress" patient they hold is for the look, shape and feel of the smartphone design, which has been around since the heavy Nokia era. Appeared to me that since no one held a patient, they decided to get one. Much like the way people tie their shoes; some use the bunny ears method, and some use the "loop, swoop, and pull." Apple saw that, and capitalized on the LSP patient.

Open source is the greatest invention ever! Responsible for the idea of free software, and the freedom to use/modify any part in an OS or application makes me happy in the pants. I can go on and on about this but for the sake of time, I won’t go too much into it. If anyone having a huge "brain-er" about open source, watch "Revolution OS" on Netflix. Long live Ubuntu!

Samsung makes very good hardware for the price (I'm way frugal). Their designs are elegant, sleek, and clean. Their clearity makes me want to get rid of my glasses and get lacy corrective.

Conclusion (most importantly, the fate of Apple):
My opinion is that Apple is burning every bridge they are crossing. Please don't get me wrong, I have equal loves for Apple, Android, and Microsoft's OS, but this lawsuit does make Apple look small. Sueing your competition out of the country doesn't make you a stronger company. It would actually make your competition stronger with the arguments you have made in court.

A designer of the iOS said someone gave her a Galaxy phone to play with, and she swore she thought it was an iPhone. Somehow, she thought this would help Apple's case, but in fact that said to the consumer "Why buy an iPhone if the Galaxy is half the price and looks the same?" Win!

If you feel Android and Samsung actually won this case and have similar thoughts as the paragraph above, I would also like to hear what you have to say. Thanks!
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Question by:Carlisle_Agent
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2nd earned 500 total points
ID: 38350869
If you steal the ideas rather than spend the money on research then ut makes sense that you can sell your product for less.
If these were two tiny companies fighting for survival it would be easy to say that the one stealing ideas from the other would be in the wrong, no matter how much their customers enjoyed the cheaper price and similar product. Should it make a difference that these are huge multinationals?
(typed on a galaxy s2)
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by:Carlisle_Agent
ID: 38351995
Totally my opinion:

"If you steal the ideas rather than spend the money on research then ut makes sense that you can sell your product for less."

There is a reason that Apple is one of the most profitable organizations; charging big bucks for their products. I'm sure there is more to the cost-effectiveness.

Production cost:
ipad 3 16gb wifi only - $320  sells for $499
ipad 3 16gb wifi w/3G - $360  sells for $629
add $16 for difference in 16gb-32gb...

asus transformer infinity 32gb wifi only - $380  sells for $499
samsung galaxy tab 2 16gb wifi only - $380 sells for $499

Coming from different companies that have about the same budget in R&D.
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by:bayoubeast
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I definitely agree they're burning bridges, I heard most recently that Motorola/Google is suing Apple because of all the patents that Apple is infringing on.  Seems like they have just as strong a case as Apple had against Samsung.

I think it's all ridiculous, and the whole patent/copyright system needs to be redone.  I'm a huge android/open source fan, too.
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by:Carlisle_Agent
ID: 38352396
Motorola actually holds patents on email notifications, media players and location reminders. Oh, and Siri is based on voice recognition that Motorola has too. They are also responsible for the mobile computing technology that brought us the good ol' PDA's, which are similar to the tablets from an engineering standpoint. That brings me back to Apple's "we did it first."

Good to see a fellow fan. The acronym OS shouldn't stand for operating system, but open source!
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by:bayoubeast
ID: 38352485
I haven't really heard from any Apple fans about any of this yet.  It'd be cool to see a civil conversation from both sides, but that's pretty rare on the internet.  I know my friend is an Apple fan, but he didn't really care about it.

Not sure how valid this is, but looks like the Galaxy S3 has been out-selling the iphone since the final verdict: http://thedroidguy.com/2012/08/apples-recent-victory-ultimately-benefiting-samsung-samsung-galaxy-s-iii-sales-outselling-iphone-since-final-verdict/
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I don't really understand being a fan of one or the other. I have a galaxy because it was on offer when I went looking for a phone and an iphone was definitely more than I wanted to spend.  I'm sure both companies charge as much for their products as the market will support no matter what the production costs. If they doubled the price of the samsungs they would probably lose sales to apple so by keeping prices low they are able to sell enough to make their money. Probably without stepping on apples toes as in my case I was not going to get an iphone so it wasn't a lost sale, just a gain for samsung.
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by:speed_54
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ID: 38356792
There is no arguing that Apple is one of the most successful companies. I mean it has been reported that Apple is richer than the US government. Yes Samsung and Android have the majority of smartphone sales, but the gap is closing. (http://www.zdnet.com/comscore-android-still-mobile-king-apples-growth-spurt-7000001985/).
Consider this. Android is being licensed to more and more manufacturers, which means the percentage of smartphones with Android gets larger. Quoting from the article "Apple is shown again to outpace every other platform vendor in the mobile space. It saw a rise by 1.7 percent, while Android only managed 0.6 percent."
So as much as people don't like them, Apple must be doing something right.
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>must be doing something right
Yes, they make and sell a very nice ptoduct, one that most people would like to own. It's not all about status symbols, the iphone not only replaces your camera, pda, walkman, telephone and satnav and does those jobs better, but it gives you access to the internet wherever you are and it is a nice size and shape.
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by:PhoenixUnlimited
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I can't imagine a smartphone where you can't use pinch gestures
I find it unimaginable that anyone would be able to patent a pinch gesture. Wouldn't this be the simplest reverse engineering project ever!

Much like the way people tie their shoes; some use the bunny ears method, and some use the "loop, swoop, and pull." Apple saw that, and capitalized on the LSP patient.
In Apple's defense, any of the other manufactures could have done the same. Then Apple would have been on defensive mode. However, I think Apple's competitors need to appeal their infringements on this patient because it is ridiculous for Apple to say, "if your phone is flat and thin, then we'll sue." In Canada, the courts would most likely favor the defendants in such a law suit & would likely penalize Apple for even suing at all.

"Why buy an iPhone if the Galaxy is half the price and looks the same?"
And I guess that is the answer to why Apple is being so aggressive. Apple has a short window of time to maximize its market share with its seamless syncing between devices. Apple wants to rule the market place with MacBooks, iPads & iPhones being thought of as one device split into three parts. Slow the production of Samsung phones, create an incredible drag on the production of Android devices and sell, sell, sell before Microsoft catches up to the same business model of 3 syncing devices.

I think the 20tweens is Apple's decade. They are proving themselves to be the smartest ones in the room. Excellent branding, proactive business plan and cornering the market in such a way they can easily defend against any accusations of monopolizing the market.
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by:speed_54
ID: 38358016
I think that Apple has done the most splendid marketing job and also created for themselves a position of power. In days past they stamped out the competition from making Mac clones, unlike IBM who then had a monopoly on their hardware and allowed cheap knock offs to be made. So as a consequence we have a proliferation of pc manufacturers all producing similar products with the same look and feel (same as the current market of android smartphones and tablets) all fighting for a piece of market share, while Apple has exclusivity creating products that stand out from the masses. This I'd suggest is the reason why so many companies are trying to make that look and feel like Apples products - to get some of Apple's pie. This is why the general public clamors for the next Apple product release - so they too can stand out from the crowd.
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by:Carlisle_Agent
ID: 38365361
It's true; Apple does have a great marketing staff. 3 things need to happen until I start believing in Apple. I would love to have a U.S tech company I would actually be proud of.

1: They need to stop outsourcing to other countries creating jobs in the US. They have the money to fund manufacturing. Why not invest? I'm sure the economy would thank you.

2: They need to cut the cost of the products itself. Ridiculous how greedy they are when it comes to profits (shown in previous comment about production cost). I would gladly consider switching from Windows/Linux.

3: Stop trying to sue everyone out of existence. Obtaining patents on ridiculous details is just sad.

@PhoenixUnlimited,
"In Apple's defense, any of the other manufactures could have done the same."

Could have, but will not! Reputations are on the line. This just tells other companies that Apple is weak. Simular to a dying animal, your squeeling to the vultures that dinner is ready. If you want to be a well respected technology company, don't pull b*tch stunts. Don't give other countries another reason to hate the U.S.
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by:speed_54
ID: 38366498
>>1: They need to stop outsourcing to other countries creating jobs in the US. They have the money to fund manufacturing. Why not invest? I'm sure the economy would thank you.
that's true but it's the cost of labor that drives manufacturing. Most first and second world countries workers are too expensive.
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I'm in the UK so I think it would be nice if they opened a factory or two over here.The pr
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Grr posted before i was done


The price would definitely increase if they did, and I'm not sure what nasty chemicals get pumped out of those factories so maybe keep them somewhere else. The cost of making them nice safe places to work and a clean output would make the cost of the product prohibitive.
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by:Carlisle_Agent
ID: 38372126
I think you missed my comment about production cost RobinD. The price per unit is a bit over the top in terms of profits. It would not make the price of products go up since they make quite a bit of money off each unit.

iPhone 5: Have you seen this? Not a big improvement in terms of hardware, and it is the same price at release of the iPhone 4s. I'm sure they will start saying Apple came up w/ quad core processors first, 4 months after the Samsung Galaxy III because no one has patent it yet... Premium price for a 4 month late technology, now com'mon!
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I saw your point. They will continue to make as much from sales as they can. As long as there are people buying then they know the price is not too high. They will (All companies) continue to find the cheapest production methods and the highest sales areas to maximise their profits. They didn't set out in business to be fair and nice about things, perhaps if they did we would never have heard of them. I can't see them deciding to open factories in the US or Europe just because there are people out of work and it would help. They could argue that they are already doing their bit by providing employment in poorer countries.
The price they charge is based on what people will pay rather than cost price. If cists become too large a part if the
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Sorry. silly lttle post box on mpbile interface wont let me edit once i step off the line.

If costs become too great a percentage of the posible sales price they will make and sell a different product.
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by:Carlisle_Agent
ID: 38374225
Let's be frank, Apple is only good to people that don't want to think. They look pretty, they work most of the time, and they are going to sell no matter what it is that they are selling at this point. Anyone who knows marketing, IMAGE is what sells no matter what price you put on it.

I saw an article the other day in the paper saying some actress I don't care about, bought a purse that cost several thousands of dollars. Can it really be worth that much for a handbag? I thought to myself, "Why is this news?" Then I thought, "Well, the people that want to hear about this kind of stuff watch too much T.V and grow less intelligent everyday for doing so. Take the Kardashians. Nothing they could possible say is interesting nor has anything of intellectual value..." Then I hear people want an iPad because they saw what's her face using one on T.V. Sad day for the evolution of the human mind.
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I'm sure popular people on tv are given products to use by the companies just so they get the promotion. It's not a new idea. I try not to be brand concious and certainly not to be a fan of any brand name. I like things that work well and I am happy to tell other people about them, but only if they ask.
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Posted again before I finished. Perhaps tv isn't the great information provider that it used to be. People now have the internet to turn to for hslf their entertainment and for any trivia or interest as soon as an idea takes form. We used to argue ovet trivial questions for a week or more until someone went to tje library and looked it up. That time lag no longer exists and so maybe tv fills a different space now, one of reality drivel and pictures, but holds no serious opinons any more as people can get their facts elsewhere.
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I saw a picture of a radio-cassette recorder today with the caption 'You used to listen to the radio for the whole day just so you could record your favorite track. Onto a tape!'

The point being that you can find it on youtube or elsewhere and download it faster than you can actually listen to it now, and with a smartphone can do that almost anywhere.
It's pretty good living here in the future.
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by:Carlisle_Agent
ID: 38395127
Update: iPhone 5 recently announced. What a joke.

http://gadgetbox-discuss.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/09/12/13829615-apple-announces-iphone-5-new-ipods#comments

2 years behind in technology and at least 6 months behind in hardware. Still, people will be lineing up at the Apple store to buy this. Friends and myself come to call Apple fanboys "Derp-users."
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by:speed_54
ID: 38397200
just wondering where this factoid comes from: "2 years behind in technology and at least 6 months behind in hardware"
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by:bayoubeast
ID: 38397218
I've been trying to figure out how good the A6 processor is compared to the galaxy s3, but keep finding conflicting articles...  So far all I know is that the A6 is "twice as fast" as the iphone 4s (which was a dual core).  So I'm guessing its pretty even with the s3.  

If that's true, I can see how they're 6 months behind in hardware.
Also, haven't been able to find how much RAM it has either...
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I read that it is very very thin.
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by:Carlisle_Agent
ID: 38409532
@speed54
Motorola developed the voice recognition software about 2 years or more before Siri came out, and they also hold the patents. 4G is a new thing for Apple, but that technology has been out for a couple of years now.

Hardware wise, they have been behind the loop for things like quad core processing/ video (Tegra3/A5X), megapixel on cameras (up to 8mp), high resolution screens (launching quad core video along with screen definition), size and weight of the device, and most recently bigger sized screens for that matter.

Without looking into any specific dates to back up my claims, but these are estimates of my observations.
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I've always considered sharing to be the best way to go with IT. Those that do the best with it will prosper. This site for instance is all about sharing ideas and solutions. If industry only worried about making and selling the best product then we would all benefit, but greed and secrecy cause good ideas to be squashed and smaller companies to be trampled in an effort to steal a marketplace rather than earn it. A bit of openness would stop people having to worry about prior claims on something they want to use to improve peoples lives.
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by:Carlisle_Agent
ID: 38417806
Fun topic. Thank you everyone that responded. Would have been nice to hear an Apple fan comment on the subject.
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