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Add SBS2011 to existing SBS2003 server

Posted on 2012-09-04
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Last Modified: 2012-09-17
I want to add an additional server to an existing sbs2003 server, which currently servers files, SQL and mail. The new SBS2011 server should take over the SQL part, and be accessible simulateously. Once that is ready, it should take over the mail as well.
The mail is currently retrieved from an external box (an catch-all mailbox). On the new server the mail will be send directly.
How I should get this to work without the combination with the existing SBS2003 server I know.  What should do and not do, to get them working together?
- Can I install the new server offline, give it the same domain name, and once on site, connect? I want to do as much as possible before joining.
- What is the correct procedure to combine these servers?
(Moving SQL is not the isssue, the issue is, not to disrupt the existing server, and add the new with the same access as the old one.)
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Question by:ebrink
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by:Krzysztof Pytko
ID: 38362593
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by:djsharma
ID: 38362608
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by:ebrink
ID: 38362615
No.
There is no replacement.
The current SBS2003 server will still do its work.
The new SBS2011 server takes over its SQL service, including databases.
Files, exchange etc will remain on SBS2003.
In the future SBS2011 will take over exchange.
The the SBS2003 is than available for files, internet access and printer access.
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ronnypot earned 500 total points
ID: 38362700
You cannot run 2 SBS servers in a single domain. The SBS server needs to hold the FSMO roles and if the SBS server does not hold those roles it will automatic turn off every hour.

Only possibillity to run 2 SBS servers is during a migration you have 21 days to complete this before one server start shutting down. So what you would like is not possible.
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by:iconnectu
ID: 38362713
But you can add an Win2k8 R2 Server with SQL installed to the existing SBS. SBS is limited to only one DC on the same domain.
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by:ronnypot
ID: 38362722
@iconnectu, there is no limitation on the number of DC's with SBS the limitation is that the SBS server needs to hold all FSMO roles, but you can add as many DC's as you like.

This is a commonly made misunderstanding.
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Author Comment

by:ebrink
ID: 38362734
I'll change my plan.
Case closed for now.
Thanks
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by:David Atkin
ID: 38363150
As per ronnypot's comments:

"You cannot run 2 SBS servers in a single domain. The SBS server needs to hold the FSMO roles and if the SBS server does not hold those roles it will automatic turn off every hour.

Only possibillity to run 2 SBS servers is during a migration you have 21 days to complete this before one server start shutting down. So what you would like is not possible."


He is correct, SBS is meant to be at the root of the Domain and cannot be added as an additional server except for a short time during a migration.

If you are going to do a migration, the Microsoft Migration guide can be found here:
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=14570
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Assisted Solution

by:Lee W, MVP
Lee W, MVP earned 500 total points
ID: 38363846
Keep in mind, if you add a server running 2008 or 2008 R2 (or 2012) to the domain, you'll ALSO have to buy CALs for each user accessing it.  Further, SQL running on Server 2003 will PROBABLY NOT run on Server 2008 R2, so you'll need new SQL Licenses/edition, which may force an upgrade to the software you use SQL with... Basically, you need to contact the vendors of all your software and confirm compatibility if you want to upgrade/move any particular products off the SBS 2003 system or you could end up spending a LOT of money unexpectedly.
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Author Comment

by:ebrink
ID: 38379050
I am preparing now to completely replace the existing server.
However, the statement: "There can be only one SBS server in a single domain" does not match the "scalability" feature of e.g. SBS2011.  Microsoft states:
Take Advantage of a Scalable Platform that Grows with the Business. As your business needs change, Windows Small Business Server 2011 Standard grows with you and meets your changing demands with a highly scalable platform. Easily add users, servers and applications, or expand into other Microsoft technologies as business needs evolve
Therefore there must be a solution to add an extra SBS server to the domain.
And one of them must give access to both.
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Assisted Solution

by:Alan Hardisty
Alan Hardisty earned 500 total points
ID: 38379186
The limitation with SBS (as has been stated) is that the SBS server HAS to hold all 5 FSMO Roles for the domain.  Therefore two SBS servers cannot both hold ALL 5 roles as they will both want to hold the roles and thus a fight will ensue.

The ONLY time you can have 2 SBS servers on the same domain at the same time is during a migration where MS give you 21 days from the start of the migration to complete it.  Beyond that, one SBS server will shut down hourly.

You can have two SBS server on the same network as long as they do not form part of the same domain.

You can add other servers to an SBS domain, but they just can't be SBS servers.
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Author Comment

by:ebrink
ID: 38379309
This is really no solution, but will close the case.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 38379312
Sometimes the solution is that you can't do what you want to do and in this instance, that is the answer.  Sorry - but we don't make the software so if you don't like the answer, please take the issue up with Microsoft.

Alan
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 38379455
Comments that have something relevant to add and address the actual question that I think should be part of the answer are:

http:#a38362700
http:#a38363846
http:#a38379186

Alan
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Assisted Solution

by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy earned 500 total points
ID: 38380069
Therefore there must be a solution to add an extra SBS server to the domain.
And one of them must give access to both.

Since ebrink seems unsatisfied, I thought I'd add something to his comment quoted above...

If your organization grows, there is never a reason to add an additional SBS when one already exists.  SBS has a limit of 75 users maximum, and is capable of easily handling the needs of those users for its core functions (Exchange, SharePoint, Active Directory, File Server).  If you grow beyond 75 users you must remove the SBS from your network by migrating to stand-alone server products.  If you need additional server capacity for other tasks such as SQL or additional file storage, etc, you can easily add a standard Server 2008 R2 to your domain.

So in your case, you can either add an additional Server 2008 R2 to act as your SQL server and keep your SBS 2003.  OR you can migrate your SBS 2003 to SBS 2011 with the premium add-on.

Details of your options are provided here:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sbs/gg981878.aspx

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 38380074
oh, and by the way... the quote you put above regarding scalability was written for SBS 2011, not SBS 2003.  SBS 2003 had a method to upgrade to stand-alone servers using an add-on transition pack.  However that product was discontinued a number of years ago because the newer versions of SBS transition more easily.

Jeff
TechSoeasy
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Author Comment

by:ebrink
ID: 38397283
Moderator,
I closed the case with C-grade, because there is NO solution presented: Not one as I sought, and no alternative. There must be an modus, in which SBS2011 controls the domain,
and accepts the SBS2003 server as an assistent, hosting older applications, providing users access to it. C-grade means: Quality of the solution is sufficient. If there had been an D-grade, meaning "Unsolved" I had selected that. I awarded those, who gave arguments why the case is unsolvable. Indeed: In my opinion the answers are incomplete: They just choose the shortest way: You can't do that.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 38397294
ebrink - No solution was presented because what you want to do - have two SBS servers on the same domain - isn't possible.  If you don't like it - write to Microsoft and complain.

That is how they have configured the software and just because you want to go against their license agreement doesn't mean our answers are not valid or 100% correct and worthy of anything other than a Grade A.

If you go to a Garage and ask them to fit a 10 litre V12 engine into a mini because you want the speed the engine will give you and the low body-weight of the mini's body and they tell you that it can't be done - are you going to argue with them too or accept that they might just know what they are talking about?

You came to EE for advice and you have been given the best advice.  Sorry if you don't like the advice - but it is what it is and it is accurate advice.  You can't have two SBS servers on the same domain except during a migration - end of story.

If you don't believe me / us then build a network with one SBS server acting as the primary server and then try introducing a 2nd SBS server into the domain and see what happens.

If you can make it work - I'll send you my salary every month for the rest of my natural working life, but I know that I will be able to happily keep on spending my salary, or at least my wife and kids will.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 38398205
@ebrink -- are you seriously only 14 years old?

I wonder.... if you went to the doctor and he told you that you had cancer, you would certainly get a second opinion.  After you got that second opinion, or even a third, forth or fifth, would you look your doctor in the eye and claim that its not possible for you to have cancer because you don't want to have it?

I'm starting to believe that is exactly what you would do -- even though you're only fooling yourself.  

Instead of arguing your point that you don't like the answers provided, why don't you look at some of the positive suggestions you were given.  Because ultimately, the goal in providing IT solutions is to provide solutions to business problems.  The problem you have proposed is not about trying to get two servers to work together... its about how to keep a business running smoothly as their primary server has gotten older.  Focus on how to BEST solve THAT problem and you'll most likely find that there is some great information thats been provided to you above.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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Author Comment

by:ebrink
ID: 38398689
As far as I can find out from your answers, and others from the microsoft forum,
it is necessary to reduce the SBS2003 server to a member server.
So: Is it possible to take of so many roles from the SBS2003 server that it wil act as a member server for SBS2011? May be it will end up as a file server only.
If that is the case, I think I can better eliminate the SBS2003 server, and accept some more disruption during the switchover.
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 38398700
You are not allowed to use an SBS server as a member server by uninstalling the parts you don't want.

If you want to use the SBS 2003 hardware as a Windows 2003 server - you need to buy a copy of Windows 2003 Server.

The SBS licence agreement is what dictates this unfortunately.
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by:ronnypot
ID: 38398711
You can remove all roles from the SBS server and maybe it will function as a files server BUT it is against the license agreement of SBS and you need to buy a separated Windows Server license for the server.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 38398798
If that is the case, I think I can better eliminate the SBS2003 server, and accept some more disruption during the switchover.

If you read what I had written above, you would see that I pointed out that this is your main objective... to avoid disruption to the business.

It may surprise you that migrating from SBS 2003 to SBS 2011 is possible WITHOUT any disruption to the business -- so long as you follow the documentation.  (Which I linked above for you).

Attempting to have two SBS's on your network will most definitely cause a disruption to the business which is exactly the opposite of what you are wanting to do.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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