Does Obama deserve a second term?

Does Obama deserve a second term?

(I say hell no)
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EricLynnWrightAsked:
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bergertimeCommented:
Of course not.  If for no other reason Obama hasn't created a stable environment for business.  As much as some people hate business, it's what makes the world go around.  Right now, I have no idea where I'll get my healthcare in 2 years.  Is is gonna go up by 50% or will it only go up by 30%?  I have no idea and neither do my employers.  

Let me ask a question, you have two motos to live by

1.  It's not your fault that your lazy, here let me spread the wealth around, I'll take from the hard worker and give it to the lazy worker as it's only fair.  After all he didn't build it, it's a group effort and everyone should get their fair share, and by fair share I mean everyone should be rewarded however I see fit.

or.....

2.If you work hard you get to reap the rewards.  Working hard and being successful is something to be embraced, not demonized.  

The only reason I could see for voting for Obama is I would be hoping to get some of that Obama cash he keeps promising.  Let me ask this, if the healthcare mandate is truly a tax, wouldn't that make Obama the biggest tax and spend president in history?  Or would it be tax and waste?  I guess it depends on how you view the "Summer of Recovery"
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Deserve? I don't care who deserves what. I care who I think will do a better job for the country out of the two candidates running.

I'm still not decided on this to be honest. The debates will tell me a lot.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>> The debates will tell me a lot.

The last 4 years tell you nothing?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Sure they do. Good and bad. It doesn't mean I think Romney will do better. He will have good and bad also.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
Excellent response, bergertime.


Anthony,

How many more have to be on food stamps before you get the hint?

Food-Stamp Use Climbed To Record 46.7 Million In June, U.S. Says
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bergertimeCommented:
Oh yeah and a vote for Obama is a vote for gridlock.  If you think the repubs will lose the house, your crazy, and I bet they will take the senate.  The only thing Obama will be able to do is play golf and if he follows Clintons lead, get BJ's in the Oval office.  THat's what I always find so crazy, Clinton was neutered for his second term, and dems are like he's the greatest president every, yea......he couldn't do anything.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>2.If you work hard you get to reap the rewards.  Working hard and being successful is something to be embraced, not demonized.  

This I believe.

>>1.  It's not your fault that your lazy, here let me spread the wealth around, I'll take from the hard worker and give it to the lazy worker as it's only fair.  After all he didn't build it, it's a group effort and everyone should get their fair share, and by fair share I mean everyone should be rewarded however I see fit.

This however is not the alternative to that. There is a level in between these that democrats work in. This is the extreme that Republicans like to toss out there just like the extreme that Republicans want the poor to starve and go hungry is tossed out by Democrats. Republicans aren't that bad either.

>>How many more have to be on food stamps before you get the hint?

Food stamps help a lot of people if they are used short term. Growing up my mother used them short term and they helped out. The problem is those that remain on them. Also the problem is all the fraud, as with any government program. Eradicating them is not the answer.

>>The only reason I could see for voting for Obama is I would be hoping to get some of that Obama cash he keeps promising.

No. The reason to vote for anyone to me is who is I honestly think is going to help the country the most.

>>Oh yeah and a vote for Obama is a vote for gridlock.

That's inevitable either way. Congress will always be Congress.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>Food stamps help a lot of people if they are used short term.

Not under Obama.  Participation continues to go up.  Why would anyone support a president promoting dependence?


>>The reason to vote for anyone to me is who is I honestly think is going to help the country the most

4 years later and look where we are.  Gas prices have doubled, unemployment at 8.3% (really higher and especially so for blacks), foreclosures on the rise, food stamp participation is at an all time high.


>>That's inevitable either way.

Berger is right.  Republicans will likely have both chambers.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>Not under Obama.  Participation continues to go up.  Why would anyone support a president promoting dependence?

I never said I support everything Obama does. I'm not in favor of this rise at all.

>>4 years later and look where we are.  Gas prices have doubled, unemployment at 8.3% (really higher and especially so for blacks), foreclosures on the rise, food stamp participation is at an all time high.

Gas rose under Bush just as bad. Unemployment jumped from the crash of 2008 so that was a large factor. Foreclosures skyrockets in 2008 from the crash. Already addressed food stamps.

>>Berger is right.  Republicans will likely have both chambers.

I disagree that this is a given. I think will still be split.


I never get on here with the Obama is our savior rant but he isn't also the devil that conservatives make him out to be. He is moving the country in a direction he feels is right. Romney will move in a direction too. Neither wrong or right. Just different. All one way or the other is bad and will take a balance on issues. The debates and the coming weeks will really show those things better than everything up to this point.
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bergertimeCommented:
AR, I agree with you for the most part.  And I think this forum has really turned into, I'm right and you're stupid type of forum, it's a shame, because it used to be pretty good.  I agree they all move us in directions, the question is "Is the direction you're in now better than 4 years ago?".  I don't know anybody who can truly say yes to that except maybe the health Insurance providers.

Is my heathcare better?  Not no but hell NO!  I made an appointment for my wellness check up.....over a month wait.  4 years ago, I almost always got in the next day.  I got a staph infection on my ankle, again...over a month!

Has my pay increased the same as inflation?  No, it hasn't.  What about the value of my house?  It's been 4 years.......what's better?  Please tell me, not some abstract bullshit, but real meat and potatos stuff.  Should I quit my job and try and start a small computer business?  Not at this time, with this economy....it's been 4 years.  Our mainframe programmer has been a contracter here for 10 years, finally had to come ask to be an employer to get health insurance, it was eating him up.  So what do we get?  An insurance handout.  Everyone has to buy it.......but get this, they can only charge 20% profit, so 80% has to go to cost.  So let me see if I understand this.  The more their cost go up, the more they make?  So they have NO insentive to keep cost down, in fact they have every insentive to make cost go up.  Sounds like a plan written by a lawyer.  Nice direction,  :(
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>Has my pay increased the same as inflation?  No, it hasn't.  What about the value of my house?  It's been 4 years.......what is better?  Please tell me, not some abstract bullshit, but real meat and potatos stuff.  Should I quit my job and try and start a small computer business?  Not at this time, with this economy....it's been 4 years.

Inflation has always been a hit. Since I was a kid in the 70's people say wages don't go up in relation to inflation. Nothing new there and that don't rest on POTUS shoulders alone. Upset not getting a raise enough at work and blaming the government sounds pretty liberal to me? Don't conservatives take that responsibility on their shoulders usually?

Housing has been from the 2008 crash. It is just bottoming out now and supposedly would start rising in next 2 years. again not something that rests with POTUS as much as the economy in general. He influences, but booming economy wouldn't have changed much in the value of homes to be honest.

Yes start the business. It will succeed or fail based on your efforts and your efforts alone. The economy don't mean crap to a small computer business. The emerging mobile market means 1000% more to the computer industry than whatever the hell the economy does.

Speaking of which, Smartphones and tablets (both luxury items) are selling how fast? How is everyone suffering so much as conservatives state, but this frivolous purchase is booming over the last 4 years like crazy? Maybe people aren't suffering so much as Conservatives state over the past 4 years and all the unemployment numbers we hear are inflated or deflated depending on who is reporting them for their own agenda? What a shock! There's some meat and potatoes. Apple and Samsung don't make one damn thing that people need but they are booming over the past 4 years. Country can't be doing THAT bad then.

In all honesty "Are you better than you were 4 years ago?" is the question everyone asks who is running against the opposing party. Obama asked it 4 years ago (only he said 8 years). Bush asked it after Clinton. Every Governor asks it about the opposition in their state who might be in power when they run.

That question has as much meat to it as "I Accept" on the TOS for all the web services we use that we don't read.
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bergertimeCommented:
Upset not getting a raise enough at work and blaming the government sounds pretty liberal to me? Don't conservatives take that responsibility on their shoulders usually?

 No, it's gov't standing in the way of progress.

Yes start the business. It will succeed or fail based on your efforts and your efforts alone.

So you disagree with Obama on 'You didn't build this.".

Oh, wow, I never thought I would hear someone base their view of how the economy was doing based on iPad sales.  Everyone relax, the economy is booming....don't believe it, check out iPad sales.

Obama himself said he sould be a one term president if he didn't fix the economy and today, he says he gets an incomplete on the economy.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>No, it's gov't standing in the way of progress.

What out man. Eric is going to jump all over your liberal excuse now.

>>So you disagree with Obama on 'You didn't build this.".

Yes I do. I never said I supported that line.

>>Oh, wow, I never thought I would hear someone base their view of how the economy was doing based on iPad sales.  Everyone relax, the economy is booming....don't believe it, check out iPad sales.

Did you ever hear the old saying "As GM goes, so does the country?"  Pretty much meaning that if General Motors was doing good, then the country was. Today that company is Apple. In addition Apple's primary 2 products, the iPhone and iPad are complete luxuries. Also all the Samsung smartphones and other similar products from other companies. They are all booming because they are selling through the roof. If the economy was as bad as the Republicans make it out to be, these wouldn't be selling like they are.

I know the economy is not flourishing, the tragedy that Obama has turned it into is nothing more than a soap opera from the republicans to make him look as bad as possible. Both him and Romney have a plan. They are different plans. Obama's plan is in a direction conservatives do not like, but it isn't destroying the country as conservatives believe it is.

I'll be voting based on whose plan seems to be best for the country come October, and how much the candidate seems to honestly look to stick to that plan instead of backing their corporate pals.
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bergertimeCommented:
Good points.  the only exception I would take is the "As GM goes....".  The reason this was true back then is so many people were employed by GM and GM spiderviened into all other industires.  That's not true of Apple.  In fact apple products get made in China.  Back in the day, if GM was doing well so was the country because it was driveing the economy.  Apple is not the same, it doesn't drive the economy.  Make sense?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Excellent point. Apple signaling how the country is doing is not like GM in that it is a different signal. GM signaled employment. Apple signifies disposable income. It is still a signal though, and apparently lots of people have lots of extra money.
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bergertimeCommented:
AR, I think we can agree to agree for the most part.  Your point is the reason I always had such a hard time with the OWS movement.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Agree bergertime. I was no big fan of OWS either. I got their point, but bad showing.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Here is a good reprsentation of why all that debt and spending that conservatives cry about really doesn't resonate with the mainstream:

https://plus.google.com/111396705647796704246/posts/5Jp4p9tKTnn

Sometime soon, these countries will realize that they are in debt by a larger figure than there are dollars in the world.  Also that with a tertiary currency system, all this debt really only exists in people's minds in the first place.

This is the mindset of the common voter. It is just crazy big numbers that don't really mean anything and we can just make more money. This is the world over and not just USA too. There is more debt than money and it isn't "real".
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