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Redistribution or Free Markets?

Obama:  "I Actually Believe In Redistribution"


Do you believe in free markets or redistribution (ie, taking something someone else earned and giving it to someone who didn't)?
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EricLynnWright
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EricLynnWright
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2 Solutions
 
Anthony RussoCommented:
Unfortunately everything in politics is looked at as all or nothing. That is the main problem we have today. While I don't feel everything should be equaled out completely, I also don't feel it should be a case of "I got mine so screw the rest of you".

Taxes are a good example for those that feel there should not be any redistribution at all. If that was truly the case then taxes should be either the same fixed amount for everyone, or the same exact % for everyone. Most people realize though that will not work in reality.

You can't say everyone pays $1000 in taxes as obviously someone making 15,000 a year is hit very hard and someone making 15 million is not contributing enough.

Similarly saying everyone should pay 20% is also not fair as that 20% is a huge hit to someone whose every last penny goes to meeting rent and food. For someone that is a millionaire and with much disposable income, that again is not even a concern.

So there has to be a sliding scale. The difference in the 2 party views is in where that scale should be set. It cant be so skewed that too many people are not contributing on the lower end, and it also cannot be unfair that the top end carries the entire burden.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Uh oh Cars. The writing is on the wall already. Your own team is starting to talk about how to recover after the loss:

If Mitt Romney loses: Republican leaders’ rush to offer post-mortems on the campaign indicates that the GOP will have a big debate about its future. - Slate Magazine : http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/09/if_mitt_romney_loses_republican_leaders_rush_to_offer_post_mortems_on_the_campaign_indicates_that_the_gop_will_have_a_big_debate_about_its_future_.html

I know Slate is a left publication but hard to argue with this paragraph:

In addition to my reporting, there are now some public signs. David Brooks offered a withering critique of Romney in a column today that ends with what feels like a post-election analysis seven weeks before the election. "He’s a kind, decent man who says stupid things because he is pretending to be something he is not—some sort of cartoonish government-hater. But it scarcely matters. He’s running a depressingly inept presidential campaign." In a piece for Politico today, the former GOP chairman Haley Barbour already sounds like he's offering post-game analysis. “In the future, and not distant future, Republicans have to come to grips with the right policy on immigration," says Barbour. Bill Kristol also appears to be in the mood to offer final words on this campaign: "Has there been a presidential race in modern times featuring two candidates who have done so little over their lifetimes for our country, and who have so little substance to say about the future of our country?" (He is apparently not yet buying the Romney campaign’s move to specificity).
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Nice chop-up of the Kroft quote in their little ad for this:

As Usual, Dishonesty Rules - The Daily Beast : http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/19/as-usual-dishonesty-rules.html

But if you look at the ad, you'll see that as usual, to score his points, Romney has to resort to a lie. Here's how CBS.com describes it:

The RNC ad, entitled "Redistribution," repeats a partial audio clip of Mr. Obama's 1998 remarks twice throughout the ad while dramatic classical music plays loudly in the background. It also features a clip of CBS News' Steve Kroft questioning Mr. Obama about his position about the redistribution of wealth in a December 2011 interview, and includes a quote of Kroft saying "this is the socialist Obama and he's come out of the closet." In Kroft's full quote, it's clear he's not calling the president a socialist but is rather noting that some people will do so: "There are going to be people who say, 'This is the socialist Obama and he's come out of the closet," he said in the interview.  

It's a semi-dishonest use of the Kroft quote, in that it tries to make it sound like Kroft is calling him a "socialist" rather than joking with him about the label, which is what he was in fact doing. And the ad also completely chops up the Obama "didn't build that" riff to leave out the words roads and bridges and convey the idea that Obama thinks a person who built a business didn't build it.

You still there Eric?
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>While I don't feel everything should be equaled out completely, I also don't feel it should be a case of "I got mine so screw the rest of you".

Nothing to do with I got mine.  It has to do with I EARNED mine, you didn't, and Obama's states he wants to take away what I've EARNED and give to someone who did not work for it.



>>Your own team is starting to talk about how to recover after the loss:

It's September.  Haven't had one debate.  Obama still has to explain why we have nothing to show for trillions of dollars wasted under his watch.



>>Nice chop-up of the Kroft quote

After joe the plumber, this comment, and all whole host of others, are you still in denial?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>It has to do with I EARNED mine, you didn't, and Obama's states he wants to take away what I've EARNED and give to someone who did not work for it.

There has to be some sliding scale though as far as a tax rate. What do you think would be fair?

>>It's September.  Haven't had one debate.

So why is your team scrambling and attacking each other already?

A Note on Romney’s Arrogant and Stupid Remarks | The Weekly Standard : http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/note-romney-s-arrogant-and-stupid-remarks_652548.html

>>After joe the plumber, this comment, and all whole host of others, are you still in denial?

No. A certain amount of redistribution is needed. The idea that he is taking everything someone successful earns and giving it to deadbeats is a lie though. 47% is who might not be paying income taxes but not becuae they are deadbeats. .They are seniors, military, students, and half of them are paying payroll taxes because they are working and not deadbeats. Romney classing them all as deadbeats wanting their entitlements is the real problem and him outright saying he is not going to worry about them is very troubling. You get the right to say that. If he wants to be President, he does not.
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beetosCommented:
Nice parroting of the daily Fox News talking points Eric.   How unpredictable.


If you're against redistribution of wealth, you should support programs designed to strengthen or benefit the middle class, as there's been a tremendous redistribution of wealth from those on the bottom of the scale to those on the top.

Do you not believe that those who've built up wealth in this country were able to do so because of the society, infrastructure, economy, and systems this country provides?  

Do you think Romney built everything on his own?  No help from his father, no privileges of wealth?  Did you know at one point Romney's father was on welfare?  Or that Paul Ryan received social security benefits as a child?  

Romney and the right are selling some bullshit again, and you're just holding your nose and swallowing it.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>So why is your team scrambling and attacking each other already?

Probably nervous about the thought of another 4 years of Obama, which means skyrocketing debt, no chance for real healthcare changes, and high unemployment.


>>What do you think would be fair?

I don't want any redistribution.  I think people spend their own money better than the government.  I prefer people investing their money in real projects and not the solyndras.  

Obama in a debate with Hillary said it was about "fairness,"  That's bullshit.  Fair is letting me keep what I earn.  


>>47% is who might not be paying income taxes but not becuae they are deadbeats.

Obama is starting out with 47% of the voters.  These are the types that hate America, are clueless, envy wealth, or are just leeches and deadbeats.   Unless Romney were to go out and burn the American flag, shit on a police car, say "G*d damn America" or demonize the rich, they people aren't going to change their minds.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>If you're against redistribution of wealth, you should support programs designed to strengthen or benefit the middle class, as there's been a tremendous redistribution of wealth from those on the bottom of the scale to those on the top.

How?



>>Do you not believe that those who've built up wealth in this country were able to do so because of the society, infrastructure, economy, and systems this country provides?  

The government had to get the money from somewhere to build roads.   Hard work, long hours, and risk came first.  



>>No help from his father, no privileges of wealth?

His father didn't do anything.  If it weren't for Romney, where would the Obama team get their office supplies?
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beetosCommented:
Eric, you're so far away from reality, even for you, that I'm worried about you:


Obama is starting out with 47% of the voters.  These are the types that hate America, are clueless, envy wealth, or are just leeches and deadbeats.   Unless Romney were to go out and burn the American flag, shit on a police car, say "G*d damn America" or demonize the rich, they people aren't going to change their minds.

This is the Romney BS that you've completely swallowed.    Who are these 47% of voters?  They include the elderly, disabled veterans, and the poor. They're the working families who own homes and have families and get deductions for such.  They're the working families who make so little they don't have to pay taxes.   Deadbeats?  Leeches?  Um, no.

Not only that, but most of these "Obama's 47%" actually live in the Red states which are going to vote for Romney.   His whole line of attack is a myth.   Let's just start calling him Myth Romney, shall we?


The government had to get the money from somewhere to build roads.   Hard work, long hours, and risk came first.  

Yes, just like they had to pay for the war with England that established this country in the first place.   They had to pay for the white house.  They had to pay for the flags.  Ask yourself what the benefit is of having roads, a free country, a democratically elected government, representation in said government...


His father didn't do anything.  If it weren't for Romney, where would the Obama team get their office supplies?

LOL - this is just ridiculous.   Romney's father didn't do anything?   Romney didn't have opportunities that most people don't have?  The US government never wrote anything down before Staples existed?


Stop drinking the right wing nut kool-aide before you drown in it!
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>Probably nervous about the thought of another 4 years of Obama, which means skyrocketing debt, no chance for real healthcare changes, and high unemployment.

An Obama bash without an actual answer. What a surprise.

>>I don't want any redistribution.

Well we have to pay taxes though. What rate should you pay, and a Billionaire, and someone below the poverty line? All the same flat amount, or the same %?

>>Obama is starting out with 47% of the voters.

That would be fine if that is what Mitt said. He didn't just say that though. He said this was the 47% that don't pay taxes and have a feeling of entitlement. 9 out of 10 states where these non-taxpayers have the highest majority are Red states though so he was way off base thinking these are Obama voters. They are all deadbeats and parasites though is what he believes, and also apparently you. I don't mind that you believe it but I don't want my President to.

>>Do you not believe that those who've built up wealth in this country were able to do so because of the society, infrastructure, economy, and systems this country provides?  

I fully believe this is true. I also though believe that when I owned a business I would be pissed at someone telling me that I wasn't the one that built it. I understand the conservative and business owners argument against the "You didn't build it" line. The problem is that is never what the President said but that is the sound bite they all here.

>>His father didn't do anything.

Don't be naive. If he had a bad relationship with his dad and did it all himself then I could believe that maybe, but he got plenty of help with the connections to get start up funding, the privileged schools, and the connections in business and politics that his father already had.

I still believe he built that business and is a good businessman himself, but he had a sweet road in front of him to build it on.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Looks like beetos beat me to most of those points.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>> Romney's father didn't do anything?  

What did his dad do for him?

Even if he did, where would some of the businesses be without Romney and Bain capital?  Had Romney not saved them, would've resulted in more people out of work.  They should be glad Romney's dad conceived such a smart business man that knows how to create jobs.


>>Who are these 47% of voters?

Anyone that would consider voting for Obama must have disdain for this country.  You can't love this country and vote for a man bound and determined to destroy via debt, regulations, and a very weakened military.


>>Well we have to pay taxes though.

Get rid of the IRS and income taxes and replace with a consumption tax.


>>I fully believe this is true. I also though believe that when I owned a business I would be pissed at someone telling me that I wasn't the one that built it.

Or what about a new health law that punishes small business if they try to grow to 50 employees?
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beetosCommented:
Eric,

You're saying you don't believe that having a rich father, who's the governor of your state no less, would give you opportunities and advantages that most people don't have?

No wonder you can't understand the concept of our society works, how we depend on each other, and what this nation provides you that allows you to build these businesses and become a vaunted "job-creator".

Even Romney said "I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth - I was born in the USA".   Obviously he means that being born an American automatically gives you advantages and opportunities you wouldn't have in another country.  


SIDENOTE: if it was Obama who said that, all of the conservative news outlets would be blaring clips of him saying "I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth" and nothing else!
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>Had Romney not saved them, would've resulted in more people out of work.

Not all companies did they work to save. Sometimes it was more profitable to have them fail as long as Bain made profit on the deal.

>>Anyone that would consider voting for Obama must have disdain for this country.

No. It just is someone who has a different direction in mind for the country than what you or the conservatives do. it's not a disdain. It's just a different view of what this country should be like.

>>destroy via debt, regulations, and a very weakened military.

Debt - There is always debt and always will be
Regulations - Triangle shirt company. Before there were regulations (I agree there are too many though)
weakened military - We overspend on military - we have more military than the rest of the world combined.

>>Get rid of the IRS and income taxes and replace with a consumption tax.

I used to think that was a good idea until you realize that hurts the lower incomes the most. If you use all the money you make just to survive and are living paycheck to paycheck, then you are being taxed a percentage of100% of your money. If you make double the money you need to meet your expenses than you are only being taxed a percentage on 50% of your money. Those that make millions or billions more than they need have a tiny portion of their money taxed. The lower incomes give the most of what they have and that doesn't promote upward mobility at all.

>>Or what about a new health law that punishes small business if they try to grow to 50 employees?

Cost of doing business. I was a sole proprietor for a while but if I got to the point of hiring an employee there would have been a ton of additional costs to me besides paying them. It's the same situation and just a cost of doing business.

>>SIDENOTE: if it was Obama who said that, all of the conservative news outlets would be blaring clips of him saying "I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth" and nothing else!

That doesn't matter. Either side will blast our the worst they can for the opposition. Not an unfair advantage either way.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Why No One Knows What the Polls Mean - Politics - The Atlantic Wire : http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/why-no-one-knows-what-polls-mean/57032/

You often mention Rasmussen and Pew as the two good polls to trust. How do you discern which is right with results like this?

President Obama is either crushing Mitt Romney with an 8-point lead nationally, or Romney has just edged Obama for a 1-point lead. No one knows which to believe and even the savviest poll-readers are confused. Pew Research Center finds Obama leading Romney 51 percent to 43 percent among likely voters. Rasmussen Reports finds Romney ahead 47 percent to 46 percent among likely voters. 
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>You often mention Rasmussen and Pew as the two good polls to trust. How do you discern which is right with results like this?

It's a good point.  It's hard to gauge.  However, the better polls are the ones that poll likely voters with a high interest.  In those polls, it's close.



>>Debt - There is always debt and always will be

But there's a tipping point at which we're just trying to pay the interest and, even further, where we can't pay it at all.  We're approaching those points fast.  



>>Obviously he means that being born an American automatically gives you advantages and opportunities you wouldn't have in another country.  

That advantage is quickly eroding under Obama.  



>>Cost of doing business. I was a sole proprietor for a while but if I got to the point of hiring an employee there would have been a ton of additional costs to me besides paying them. It's the same situation and just a cost of doing business.

Another shoulder shrug answer.  Read up on the health law and what happens when a small business expands to 50 employees.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>However, the better polls are the ones that poll likely voters with a high interest.  In those polls, it's close.

They both are of likely voters and in these polls Obama is +8 in one and -1 in the other. So averaging them would have Obama at +7. Not very close.

>>But there's a tipping point at which we're just trying to pay the interest and, even further, where we can't pay it at all.  We're approaching those points fast.  

There was a tipping point in the 70s where we were going to run out of food for the world and that didn't happen. Then we were going to run out of Oil but that didn't happen.  We have been approaching the 'tipping point' in climate change for years and that don't seem to be happening either. The debt tipping point is more apocalypse talk from the Republicans and have been saying it for years, like when it first hit a Trillion dollars.

Greece is the example that is pretty common. The difference here is we aren't part of the Euro and have never stopped printing the money we need. Or just creating it electronically. This wave will loom over the US forever but not likely to ever crash down.

>>Another shoulder shrug answer.  Read up on the health law and what happens when a small business expands to 50 employees.

Right. There is an added expense. So grow above 50 when the numbers add up and it is wise to do so. It's like growing to the point where you suddenly need to hire a bookkeeper. It's an additional expense. Business isn't going to come to a crashing halt over it. People will have healthcare though.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>There was a tipping point in the 70s where we were going to

Your lack of urgency on this is frightening.  Just downright frightening.


>>Greece is the example that is pretty common.

There is no one to bail the US out.


>> It's an additional expense.

This is the problem with liberals.  They never know how to put things in perspective.  The law forces employers to pay $2K for EACH employee in excess of 30 employees.  Once you hit 50 employees, you just got hit with a $40K additional expense.  That's huge for small companies.  (1) that's a salary in itself.  (2) It is driver NOT to hire people.

My gosh.  Like beating my head against a wall.



>>People will have healthcare though.

-See looming doctor shortage.  Both liberal and conservatives agree this will happen, regardless if Anthony shrugs his shoulders and say it won't happen.  Experts on both sides say it will.

-Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people (mostly middle class)
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>Your lack of urgency on this is frightening.  Just downright frightening.

The constant sense of doom from conservatives is frighting.

>>There is no one to bail the US out.

The US will not fall like Greece did. It is a very different situation.

>>That's huge for small companies.  (1) that's a salary in itself.  (2) It is driver NOT to hire people.

No it isn't. If you are at the point of going from 49 to 52 people or 53 people, the added salary of one more better not be breaking your bank. If it is, then you really shouldn't be expanding. On top of that this provides healthcare for them all.

>>-See looming doctor shortage.  Both liberal and conservatives agree this will happen, regardless if Anthony shrugs his shoulders and say it won't happen.  Experts on both sides say it will.

So then all have an equal chance to get to the doctors that are there. Not just the rich people go while the poor don't. Is that too fair?

>>-Tax penalty to hit nearly 6M uninsured people (mostly middle class)
"This (analysis) doesn't change the basic fact that the individual responsibility policy will only affect people who can afford health care but choose not to buy it," said Erin Shields Britt of the Health and Human Services Department. "We're no longer going to subsidize the care of those who can afford to buy insurance but make a choice not to buy it."
Isn't that what conservatives always want. People to take their own fiscal responsibility and not have others subsidize it. What is the argument here against this concept?
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>hat is the argument here against this concept?

How about the fact that people have to pay a fine (or a tax) no matter?  Given they're labeling it a tax, this is (1) the largest tax in US history and (2) breaks Obama's pledge that the middle class will see no new taxes.


>So then all have an equal chance to get to the doctors that are there. Not just the rich people go while the poor don't.

The poor currently have plenty of health care.  Difference is they get it free right now, where as I have to pay.  It's called medicaid.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>How about the fact that people have to pay a fine (or a tax) no matter?

 No they don't. They get insurance and they don't have to pay it. Then any medical expenses of theirs are on their dime, and not yours. What is the problem with that?

>>The poor currently have plenty of health care.  Difference is they get it free right now, where as I have to pay.  It's called medicaid.

That's for those that fall below the poverty line. This is for those that are above the qualifications for medicaid and are going to the doctor without it causing everyone else to foot the bill. This is so conservative in how it works which is why Romney did it in Mass.
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beetosCommented:
Google "Chaos on Bullshit Mountain!"
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Jon Stewart Climbs Fox News' 'Bulls**t Mountain' - Politics - The Atlantic Wire : http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/jon-stewart-climbs-foxs-bullst-mountain-47-percent/57053/

And then Fox News went on to say Romney was misinterpreted, meaning "you're looking and hearing the cynical, condescending, plutocratic words he was saying, not the aspirational, optimistic message he--in retrospect--should have been meaning," Stewart said. "It's like Romney Jazz. It's the words you don't hear. It's really in-artful words from a dubious source."

What a bunch of crap!
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
You guys ever thought about getting your news from - well- a news channel?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>You guys ever thought about getting your news from - well- a news channel?

I expected that response.

Is there a false accusation in there that FoxNews did not say?

is there another way to say "He sounded crass and condescending but he should have said something nice and uplifting.

Well he didn't.

That's like saying I should have said "Great job boss" but really said "You suck boss!" and wondering why the boss fired me?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
Wait until they get a load of this story:

Mitt Romney 'Dyed His Face Brown' to Appeal to Latino Voters : http://gawker.com/5944931/mitt-romney-dyed-his-face-brown-to-appeal-to-latino-voters
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
Answer this honestly...


If you're a deadbeat, a leech, a welfare mom with 10 kids from 11 different dads, which candidate would you support?
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beetosCommented:
It's not news Eric, it's an expose on Fox "News" aka the Romney campaign headquarters.

Stewart shows, by using Fox News clips, how the story changed throughout the day and the lengths Fox News will go to try to cover for, do damage control for Romeny,  and attack Obama.

1). The Romney video is a leftwing smear from a dubious source ( Mother Jones, Carter's grandson).
2).  Romney's words were in-artful
3).  He was really saying everyone should be part of the American Dream (huh?)
4).  It was an accurate portrayal of Romney
5).  It's a correct argument
6).  It's a win for Romney, he should run with it.
7).  It's from wayyyyy  back in May!
8).  It's just a distraction from the real issues
9).  Hey wait, Obama has a video which is more relevant and IS part of the real issues.  Nevermind that it was from wayyyyy back in 1998!

The Fox News folks all are on the same page, and repeat the same talking points on every show.   They're the ones not talking about serious issues, except when they're complaining about people not talking about serious issues!


He then goes on to eviscerate Romney's claims, showing how Romney benefits from tax rules far more than the 47% who are "dependent" on the Gov't.  The "core" of bullshit mountain!
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beetosCommented:
Answer this honestly...


If you're a deadbeat, a leech, a welfare mom with 10 kids from 11 different dads, which candidate would you support?

It's not an honest question - it's just  the Republican myth that half the country are leeches, which basically is your conservative doctrine defined.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>If you're a deadbeat, a leech, a welfare mom with 10 kids from 11 different dads, which candidate would you support?

I honestly feel sorry for you that you go through life with this kind of outlook on people man.

I saw you opened another question with this line but I refuse to participate in it.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>Mitt Romney 'Dyed His Face Brown' to Appeal to Latino Voters

I didn't know latino voters like brown faces?


>>... Fox News will go to try to cover for, do damage control for Romeny,  and attack Obama.

Reverse that for the remaining network channels.

NBC News Not Airing Obama’s ‘Redistribution’ Tape Because They Have Not Yet ‘Authenticated It’
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>I saw you opened another question with this line but I refuse to participate in it.

It can sit out there.  

You guys know the answer.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>I didn't know latino voters like brown faces?

Thinking that latino voters like brown faces is a good sign of being out of touch.

>>Reverse that for the remaining network channels.

I agree they do. But why do you argue that FoxNews does not do it for Republicans.

>>You guys know the answer.

Yes we do, however just because a Mr. Burns (from the Simpsons) type of person would vote for Romney does not mean that is what Romney supports or stands for. To think that is the base of who is supporting him and what he stands for as being right is short-sighted, prejudice, and honestly stupid!

Over the years I have come to know you are not stupid. if that is honestly how you look at all people in a lower income bracket, I truly feel sorry for you man.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
What does lower income have to do with it?
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beetosCommented:
Eric,

Of the 47% Romney attacked saying they'll vote for Obama because he gives them handouts, the majority of them live in Red states, meaning they'll be voting for Romney.


NBC vs FOX - it's not even close.

Waiting to verify a source, especially after all the Breitbart/Okeefe BS is a good journalistic practice.   Further, when you actually hear the full quote and not just the sound byte, it's clearly just another nontroversy from Fox News meant to distract from the damage that Romney's doing to himself!

I posted this earlier and was chastised that "both sides do it", but it's a hallmark of Fox news to take a piece of a quote out of context to make it seem incendiary.   Like "You didn't build that" or now the "redistribution" tape.   Meanwhile, the FULL tape of Romney's closed door speech is available.   See the difference?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>NBC vs FOX - it's not even close.

I think FoxNews is a bigger culprit but I don't hold NBC in too high of a light either since that atrocious editing job on the Zimmerman 911 call. That was blatant.
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beetosCommented:
I think FoxNews is a bigger culprit but I don't hold NBC in too high of a light either since that atrocious editing job on the Zimmerman 911 call. That was blatant.

You're right -  it was, dare I say?   Foxworthy!
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>Waiting to verify a source, especially after all the Breitbart/Okeefe BS is a good journalistic practice.

You're that naive?  They, like all the other networks, have no intentions of broadcasting something perceived as negative against the community organizer.


>>You're right -  it was, dare I say?   Foxworthy!

NBC, CBS, ABC - all shady operations.  The only reason you guys don't like Fox is because they give both sides a microphone.
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beetosCommented:
Sure, if you mean by "both sides" that they give a mic to Romney AND Ryan.   OR the way he flip-flops, it could even be Romney AND Romney!
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
The thing I do like about Fox is that the liberals they put on aren't the crazy nut jobs like on MSNBC - like that chick that looks like the karate kid.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>NBC, CBS, ABC - all shady operations.  The only reason you guys don't like Fox is because they give both sides a microphone.

Why do conservatives try to act like FoxNews is fair and balanced. They are obviously the counterweight to the mainstream left leaning media. Why not just own that and drop the charade that they are 'neutral'.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>Why not just own that and drop the charade that they are 'neutral'.

The only real group fixated on Fox News is liberals.  They can't stand for conservatives to have ANY voice.  That's why they'd love to shut down talk radio and fox.


I just don't know how anyone can be a Democrat.  Do they really hate their country that badly?
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>The only real group fixated on Fox News is liberals.  They can't stand for conservatives to have ANY voice.  That's why they'd love to shut down talk radio and fox.

How do you relate that response to the question you pasted there about dropping the charade on being neutral. do you just grab a random question and then throw in a line about whatever you want to say that remotely fits one word of the question?

I thought conservatives were the ones fixated watching FoxNews. Any honest voice would be fine. I am fine with FoxNews as long as they keep the facts straight.

>>I just don't know how anyone can be a Democrat.  Do they really hate their country that badly?

No. Most people that hate the country don't vote. People that hate something generally don't get so involved in it. Liberals and Democrats have a passion for the country just as Conservatives and Republicans do and both sides want the best for everyone in it to live prosperously. A liberal just has a different idea of what that is than a conservative does.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>Democrats have a passion for the country

No, a Democrat has a passion for big deficits that future generations have to pay.  They hate the Constitution.  They're jealous of those in the country that actually produce products and --heaven forbid- make a profit.  They want something for nothing and love to reward failure.  And in an effort to remain in power, they want to give US citizenship to those that illegally crossed in to our country - which is a slam to those that are actually waiting in line and doing things correctly.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>No, a Democrat has a passion for big deficits that future generations have to pay.

Nobody has a passion for a deficit. They have a passion for the services they buy that creates the deficit.

>>They hate the Constitution.

Many people do because it is outdated and not as well adapted to society today as much as it was 200+ years ago.

>>They're jealous of those in the country that actually produce products and --heaven forbid- make a profit.

Agree many are jealous.

>>They want something for nothing and love to reward failure.

Very few want this at the expense of someone else. It is too common though.

>>And in an effort to remain in power, they want to give US citizenship to those that illegally crossed in to our country - which is a slam to those that are actually waiting in line and doing things correctly.

They don't want this for some political reason 'to remain in power'. That's ridiculous to think a voter is choosing to vote for a Democratic issue because they want the political power it gives to their party. Only politicians think that way. People don't. They want this because if someone lived their whole life here in America, and contributed well, they deserve a way to become American if they want to.

I really never got the whole illegal immigration thing. It boils down to the fact that since you were born 5 miles south of where I was born, you suck and deserve nothing regardless if you have been contributing to my country for 20+ years.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>Many people do because

Apparently not enough agree with you.  


>> it is outdated and not as well adapted to society today as much as it was 200+ years ago.

Founders left a way to modify.   And nutty activist judges not part of that plan.


>>Very few want this at the expense of someone else.

See chicago teacher's union.  They don't give a f*ck where the money comes from.  They don't give a sh*t that only 15% of the kids up there can read.



>>It boils down to the fact that since you were born 5 miles south of where I was born, you suck and deserve nothing regardless if you have been contributing to my country for 20+ years.

It boils down to you going through the legal process if you want to become a citizen.  We're a country of borders, laws, and culture.



>>That's ridiculous to think a voter is choosing to vote for a Democratic issue because they want the political power it gives to their party.

The whole Democrat platform is giving away goodies paid for by Republicans in an effort to remain in power.
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beetosCommented:
Thanks for speaking truth to insanity Anthony.   A couple of points I disagree on though:

>>They hate the Constitution.

This is simply not true, just another Republican myth akin to Democrats are unpatriotic.  Republicans are quick to wave the Constitution around, but slow to embrace it's meaning.  


>>They're jealous of those in the country that actually produce products and --heaven forbid- make a profit.

No, you've been mislead.    Republicans only care about business owners and the wealthy - they have an obvious disdain for American workers.  

>>They want something for nothing and love to reward failure.

You mean like not taxing capitol gains and allowing capitol losses to be written off over a period of years?  Again, that's Republican/conservative philosophy:  Privatize profits and socialize losses.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
>>Republicans only care about business owners and the wealthy - they have an obvious disdain for American workers.  

I still disagree with this. I don't think they have a disdain for the American worker. They have a disdain for the American unemployed maybe, but not the worker. They just honestly believe that bettering the company is better for the country, rather than the worker.

to a point it is good to better the country, AND the worker.. It takes that magic word Balance that is so hard to find in politics today.
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EricLynnWrightAuthor Commented:
>>This is simply not true

Why the hell do you think liberals always appoint judges who make policy from the bench?


>>Republicans only care about business owners and the wealthy - they have an obvious disdain for American workers.  

How does this make sense?  Don't American workers have to work for business owners?  And that when Democrats punish small businesses they are in essence punishing American workers.


>>You mean like not taxing capitol gains and allowing capitol losses to be written off over a period of years?

Where do you think small businesses start?  They start from people investing their money.  The more you tax the more risk you put at the hands of the investor, resulting in less investment, less job growth.
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Anthony RussoCommented:
And the tailspin continues:

In 2011, Romney refused to take some deductions, thus paying above 13% as promised

You Know You've Had a Bad Week When... - The Daily Beast : http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/21/you-know-you-ve-had-a-bad-week-when.html
Romney had pledged, in that ABC interview in Israel, that he'd never paid less than 13 percent to the feds. But to make that true for tax year 2011, the campaign admits that he artificially refused to take some deductions so that the rate would stay above the magic number.

But wait a second. Isn't this the same Mitt Romney who said back in January: "I don’t think you want someone as the candidate for president who pays more taxes than he owes."

In fact, it is. So he just released returns that, when stacked against his earlier statement, disqualify him for the presidency by his own lights.

VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed Throughout AARP Speech | TPM2012 : http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/09/video-paul-ryan-booed-throughout-aarp-speech.php?ref=fpa

I think even your buddy Rasmussen is going to have some bad news for you by next week.
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