java vs html5 project opinion
Hi,
I'm in my last evening-school projectmodule for programming.
So now, we have to come up with an application of any sort, present it and make a business model for our tutors to evaluate. If it's approved we may start our project.
The main programming language we received was Java.
So, my idea was to create a mindmapping application (which I started before as a tryout but never really finished cause of work and school). So I'd like to recreate this application.
But with all advancing technology I'm not really convinced that a simple desktop application will do nowadays. So I thought of putting it into a webapplication. Problem is that applets aren't really visitors favorite choice to use.
Now I've been learning some basic html5 and was thinking using a canvas to represent my application.
So I have a few questions:
-Would you make such application as a webapplication?
-If so, would you use html5, any opinion appreciated :) (negative, positive pointers welcome)
-When I check the use of canvas the first thing I disliked is that when you draw something it's like paint (no variables or objects are being saved), what alternatives are there?
-Any good libraries out there you think might be useful for such project?
Kind regards,
Peter
I'm in my last evening-school projectmodule for programming.
So now, we have to come up with an application of any sort, present it and make a business model for our tutors to evaluate. If it's approved we may start our project.
The main programming language we received was Java.
So, my idea was to create a mindmapping application (which I started before as a tryout but never really finished cause of work and school). So I'd like to recreate this application.
But with all advancing technology I'm not really convinced that a simple desktop application will do nowadays. So I thought of putting it into a webapplication. Problem is that applets aren't really visitors favorite choice to use.
Now I've been learning some basic html5 and was thinking using a canvas to represent my application.
So I have a few questions:
-Would you make such application as a webapplication?
-If so, would you use html5, any opinion appreciated :) (negative, positive pointers welcome)
-When I check the use of canvas the first thing I disliked is that when you draw something it's like paint (no variables or objects are being saved), what alternatives are there?
-Any good libraries out there you think might be useful for such project?
Kind regards,
Peter
Michel Plungjan
Only one comment: I just gave my mother an iPad since she cannot use a PC. She cannot sign in to government sites since they all use an apple for identification. That is so annoying!
This is only one small part of the equation so please let others comment, too.
Data that is stored on a mobile device is accessed with 1/10 of the battery power when compared to data that is sent from a server to a mobile device. This is part of the reason that the "app store" and the downloadable applications are so popular. Plus, if your clients pay 89 cents per download, and your app is popular, you can make a fair amount of money.
If you want to use HTML5, your app can put a cookie the client machine. The cookie can be a pointer to a data base table that holds a memory of the variables and objects. There is nothing inherent in HTML that will remember the state or contents of previous site visits; most sites use the combination of a cookie and a data base to preserve client information.
Best of luck with your project -- it sounds interesting and promising! ~Ray
Data that is stored on a mobile device is accessed with 1/10 of the battery power when compared to data that is sent from a server to a mobile device. This is part of the reason that the "app store" and the downloadable applications are so popular. Plus, if your clients pay 89 cents per download, and your app is popular, you can make a fair amount of money.
If you want to use HTML5, your app can put a cookie the client machine. The cookie can be a pointer to a data base table that holds a memory of the variables and objects. There is nothing inherent in HTML that will remember the state or contents of previous site visits; most sites use the combination of a cookie and a data base to preserve client information.
Best of luck with your project -- it sounds interesting and promising! ~Ray
OT: Michel, in the USA the federal government is under great political pressure (especially from the disabled) to get better, but the state and local governments are utterly horrid in web applications. Governments have unlimited amounts of money to get started with projects, but no competition, so there is no incentive to do things the right way or to improve outdated applications. I'm sorry for your Mom, but her experience with sluggish, marmoreal government agencies is unfortunate and far from unique.
http://wordsmith.org/words/marmoreal.html
All the best from across the pond, ~Ray
http://wordsmith.org/words/marmoreal.html
All the best from across the pond, ~Ray
Are you asking about mobile app vs web app? I thought you were asking about html5 and a web app vs a desktop app. Also -- you don't really mean Java, do you? You mean Javascript.
HTML5 is fine -- only some browsers implement it well, so make sure your instructors know to use chrome, or whatever browser you find works for your app.
There are drawing packages for javascript, and in a sense for html5. Or a combo. Try asking another question on ee, this time about drawing tools or frameworks for javascript. And don't include the Java topic area, don't put "java" in your question -- it's javascript you want answers on. Or simply google for some -- that will give you an idea of what's out there.
The big frameworks I know of for Javascript:
* jquery
* google graphics dev kit, google app dev kit
* yahoo javascript dev kit (YUI)
JQuery is much easier than the Google app dev kits, but some people with very complex apps swear by the Google kit. They all take a significant amount of time to get used to.
My 2 cents: unless you already did a lot of work, developing an application to draw is a lot of work. Make sure you have time for your school project. You should probably confine your project to 1 or 2 drawing examples to try to contain the amount of time you'll need to spend on it.
If you are looking at a mobile app with Javascript, I sugges you look at Adobe's Phonegap http://phonegap.com/ . Again -- a lot of work to get it going, so I suggest you limit your school project as much as possible.
HTML5 is fine -- only some browsers implement it well, so make sure your instructors know to use chrome, or whatever browser you find works for your app.
There are drawing packages for javascript, and in a sense for html5. Or a combo. Try asking another question on ee, this time about drawing tools or frameworks for javascript. And don't include the Java topic area, don't put "java" in your question -- it's javascript you want answers on. Or simply google for some -- that will give you an idea of what's out there.
The big frameworks I know of for Javascript:
* jquery
* google graphics dev kit, google app dev kit
* yahoo javascript dev kit (YUI)
JQuery is much easier than the Google app dev kits, but some people with very complex apps swear by the Google kit. They all take a significant amount of time to get used to.
My 2 cents: unless you already did a lot of work, developing an application to draw is a lot of work. Make sure you have time for your school project. You should probably confine your project to 1 or 2 drawing examples to try to contain the amount of time you'll need to spend on it.
If you are looking at a mobile app with Javascript, I sugges you look at Adobe's Phonegap http://phonegap.com/ . Again -- a lot of work to get it going, so I suggest you limit your school project as much as possible.
ASKER
@mplungjan & Ray_Paseur:
What are you guys talking about? Would you mind not ruining my thread please!
Im not sure if this is intended or probably a mistake. but please delete the 2 posts.
@Ray_Paseur (second paragraph):
Well I'm not sure if we have to take the law into consideration but here in Europe we should ask the users whether we may save cookies on their computers or not. Thats the law, but when I check most websites almost none know this. But aside from that it's a nice idea.
@mrcoffee365:
No my application has nothing to do with phones. I'll create a new question for some knowledge on framework usages later on. As for desktop applications I have no issues drawing with Java, As I said I already created the basics before and worked for most part.
What are you guys talking about? Would you mind not ruining my thread please!
Im not sure if this is intended or probably a mistake. but please delete the 2 posts.
@Ray_Paseur (second paragraph):
Well I'm not sure if we have to take the law into consideration but here in Europe we should ask the users whether we may save cookies on their computers or not. Thats the law, but when I check most websites almost none know this. But aside from that it's a nice idea.
@mrcoffee365:
No my application has nothing to do with phones. I'll create a new question for some knowledge on framework usages later on. As for desktop applications I have no issues drawing with Java, As I said I already created the basics before and worked for most part.
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We were discussing why using an applet may be a very bad idea. No need to get annoyed. Itis in my opinion more and more questionable to use java applets on the Internet. That was all my post was about.
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@mplungjan: K, sorry for the misinterpret of the posts. I just didn't understand the link between my question and your post.
@mrcoffee365: thanks for the heads up, it does seem more logic to go for webapp development. And no, our tutors don't really care in what language it is written. As long as its programmed :)
@dpearson: as for flash: I'm still not convinced in the power of flash... It takes waaay to much cpu usage on some computers and phones. Later on this might not be the issue anymore but as of now... I'm not really into this. Thanks btw for the link, will be looking into it.
@mrcoffee365: thanks for the heads up, it does seem more logic to go for webapp development. And no, our tutors don't really care in what language it is written. As long as its programmed :)
@dpearson: as for flash: I'm still not convinced in the power of flash... It takes waaay to much cpu usage on some computers and phones. Later on this might not be the issue anymore but as of now... I'm not really into this. Thanks btw for the link, will be looking into it.
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Flash on iPhone and iPad? I think not.
Flash on iPhone and iPad? I think not.Yeah - that's certainly the common wisdom at the moment. Indeed many think there's no Flash support on iOS.
But not only is there support, the newest Flash implementations are fully GPU backed so you can get screaming fast performance, since the rendering is no longer in the CPU. To see how those games look you can see some of Zynga's new creations - which are GPU accelerated Flash apps and looking impressive (full 3D in a browser or iPhone) - something which wasn't possible a year ago.
Doesn't mean it's a fit for every application - but folks do need to know it's a valid choice these days. I keep running into people trying to use HTML5 for rich apps and dying the slow performance death (remember Facebook pulling back from HTML5 for their mobile apps due to performance problems?). There are other options :)
Doug
Please show me a flash based web page that works on my non-jailbroken iPad 3 on iOS 6 and not using adobes media server
I have only ever seen black holes where flash is used
I have only ever seen black holes where flash is used
Please show me a flash based web page that works on my non-jailbroken iPad 3 on iOS 6
That's not possible. Apple has blocked Flash *in a browser* on iOS. (That's for business reasons - if they allowed Flash you could build a competing App Store w/o paying Apple 30% - a reasonable business decision on their side).
But they do allow Flash in native apps. It's hard to know that's happening - they look just like any other native app. It's just quicker to write since the same code runs on iOS, Android and the web.
Doug
But the asker is asking about WEB applications, not native object C applications
But the asker is asking about WEB applications, not native object C applications
We're getting off the topic here - but what I was saying (if you go back and read the thread from the top) is that Flash is a surprising solid choice today for building the front end of a web application. On a iOS device that Flash web app will run as a native app - communicating with the same web backend that you'd communicate with in a browser on the desktop. This is with little or no code changes (trust me - we've done this with some really big web apps - it's very simple).
It doesn't mean that's the correct choice here - but it is a reasonable choice and many folks aren't aware of it and invest months struggling with HTML5 because they believe it's the only cross-platform solution available (after you realize that a pure desktop app is a solution from a decade ago and usually a poor choice today). So I'm just raising the awareness.
Doug
ASKER
Okay as stated this post went kind of off topic... But no worries there :)<br />Well I asked my mentor for a few ideas and I came to a conclusion to start using SVG.<br /><br />This in combination with JSON and xml I can 'easily' port out ideas to a file using php.