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How to terminate this phone wire?

Posted on 2013-02-05
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Last Modified: 2013-02-05
Okay so I'm redoing some of the faceplates at work. Usually phone wire is pretty easy, being it's just the blue pair to terminate. however I found this larger bundle of phone wire that I don't know where to begin because of all the different colors. There's even a red and black pair.

I don't need to terminate the square box, I just need to replace the Rj11 jack with a newer Rj45 one.

Where do I put these wires on a Rj45 being that they don't follow the normal color scheme? They even look like they have a sodered cap at the end of the wire going into the Rj11?

Rj11 Jack, not the Square box
Rj11 Jack, not the Square box
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Question by:Pancake_Effect
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by:Ben Hart
Ben Hart earned 412 total points
ID: 38855420
you'd be better off replacing the entire jack and box.  Those wires inside there are stranded conductor.. meaning they won't punch well.

If your removing the rj11 and using an rj45 then it doesn't matter what colors you use.. as you can terminate to whatever pair you want.  But with regards to the rj11 the red/green would be the center pair.. the pair most often used for analog phones.
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by:Ben Hart
ID: 38855427
If you insist on using the box and existing wires.. then punch the white/blue to the center pair on your rj45 jack and you're golden pony boy.
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by:giltjr
ID: 38855444
Quick question, why are you doing this?

Do you have a phone device that has a RJ45 instead of a RJ11?  Kind of unusual for that.

If you are attempting to use this as a LAN connection, you may want to rethink.  The wiring in side that jack is most likely CAT3 at the best, which means it will not support anything over 10 Mbps.
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by:Pancake_Effect
ID: 38855459
We have a a few phones in each room next to it, I figured the square box had to do with something with connecting those all together. What's the point of the square box? You're saying it's not even needed, and is only local to that phone? Why wouldn't they just put a Rj11 connector on it without the box?

PS: If I just punch the blue pair, why did they punch all of them?
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by:Ben Hart
Ben Hart earned 412 total points
ID: 38855465
The box is what we called biscuits back in the day.  those are there because not all analog devices back then only used 1 pair of wires.  Plus that biscuit gives you the options of using whatever pinout you want or need for the device your connecting.

What will you be connecting to this jack in the end?  If it's another analog phone then your totally safe cutting off the biscuit all together and replacing it with a nice rj45 jack and faceplate.
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by:Ben Hart
ID: 38855483
Actually what you have there is RJ12.. it used all 6 wires.  Take a look here: rj11-rj12
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by:Pancake_Effect
ID: 38855493
Ah okay that makes more sense. I do know that this is plugging into a analog phone, do you think that I have to worry about it still needing that legacy setup requiring more than a single pair?

Sorry I'm more of a server/networking guy, my understanding of telecommunications is quite basic haha.
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by:giltjr
giltjr earned 88 total points
ID: 38855525
Not sure what type of phone wiring you have done in the past, but the normal colors for phone wires are Greed/Red for a single line and if you have a second line it is normally on the Black/Yellow pair.  The Blue/White is there in the very rare case of a 3rd line.

http://www.wire-your-phones.com/

You may need that box.  Some phone systems are wired like a "bus".   That is phone wire to box1 from box1 to box2 from box2 to box3, instead of a "star"  where there is a unique phone wire to each box.

The "bus" requires less wire, but if one place is cut, you could lose a lot of phones.  The "star" requires more wire, but if one wire is cut you only lose that phone.
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by:Ben Hart
Ben Hart earned 412 total points
ID: 38855543
OP mentioned analog phones.. I can't recall any PBX's off the top of my head that used analog devices requiring only 1 pair.
But if your wiring only one analog phone then cut the biscuit IMO.. use whatever color code your other phones are wired to to maintain consistency.
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by:Pancake_Effect
ID: 38855569
Just to take the safest route possible, can I take all six wires in the Rj12 and put it in the RJ45 jack. I know it might not be the easiest, but it will be the safest way, being that it's vital that the other phones remain operational.

If I were to put all six pairs in a Rj45, what would the order be, being that again the color scheme is different. I'm use to using the B standard for data cables.
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by:Ben Hart
Ben Hart earned 412 total points
ID: 38855615
My best advice would be to compare the wiring of the other phones.  Do all the other phones have these same style jacks?  What about the wires feeding the jack (box), how many conductors are terminated to the box?  If you have for example two reds, and two greens connected to the screw terminals inside that biscuit then they are being daisy-chained.  However if the feed wire is only using two conductors to the screw terminals.. then your safe to cut it off, or use only two wires for the new jack.

I must ask though, will replacing the jack with an rj45 provide some benefit to justify the change?
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by:giltjr
ID: 38855619
-->  I'm use to using the B standard for data cables.

Again, are you planning to use this for LAN?
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by:Ben Hart
ID: 38855630
Also look at the cord used to connect the device to this particular jack.. how many conductors are in it?
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by:Pancake_Effect
ID: 38855702
I'm using a RJ45 simply because it fits our face-plate (which the face-plate is being replaced because it's become our standard) I just mentioned B standard because that's what I'm use to being a networking guy, I'm use to that color scheme for the wires. This is for analog phone services (I know it has nothing to do with the B standard I mentioned, sorry if I confused you) I'm not use to this red, white, black etc color scheme. So I was just wondering if someone could just give me a order for example Black, Red, White, etc in order for a Rj45 plug. But I might do what the others said and see if I can find another wall jack that may have been upgraded with a Rj45 jack in the past.
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Ben Hart earned 412 total points
ID: 38855763
Would you post up a picture of one of the above biscuits that's in use?  here is mine that might help explain (yes my artistic skills are null)

If your wiring is like the bottom image then there is no daisey-chaining and your free to replace with whatever you want.
phone-jack-wiring.jpg
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by:giltjr
giltjr earned 88 total points
ID: 38855885
Should be something like:

T568B                      RJ11/12
3 - green-white <-> 2 Black
4 - blue             <-> 3 Red
5 - blue-white   <-> 4 green
6 - Green          <-> 5 yellow


You can look at http://www.cableorganizer.com/telecom-datacom/network-instructions.htm
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by:Pancake_Effect
ID: 38856021
We had a wiring company do all of the other drops, this is just one that they didn't get to. Below is a picture of one that they did that's in the same room...not quite sure if there was a biscuit on it before or not..

Finished
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by:Ben Hart
Ben Hart earned 412 total points
ID: 38856152
Oh yeah then there's no chaining going on.. or it's not a bus-type setup.  So you'll be safe to replace and only use one pair on the new jack.
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Author Closing Comment

by:Pancake_Effect
ID: 38856179
Thanks everyone! I simply just connected the red and green wire after cutting off the biscuit, and I still had a dial tone. That was my main fear was it was daisy chained, but based off your feedback, there was none, and all the phones are all working great now and mission accomplished.

Thanks for the help everyone.
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