Graeme_Sm
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Where can I get independant advice on choosing and configuring a high-end, single-user SQL Server database and server
I am a self-employed wannabe quant, working with a lot of what is now fashionably called "big-data" held in an SQL Server database. At the moment I am doing this on nothing more than a laptop, although with a top-end SSD drive, which blew away Azure and similar options when I compared them a couple of years ago - things may be different now.
I want to upgrade. I pay a large fortune every year for the data that I require so it makes a lot of sense to spend a percentage of that to have a server capable of processing that data faster. The problem is, I am a software person, I don't know hardware, and don't really know what my best option is.
For instance, the first thing that strikes me is that the poor mans solution to running SQL Server, retail Windows with a very fast SSD drive, seems to come in at about a tenth of the cost of the next level of going with a Xeon Windows 8 server with a lot of memory. Without being able to absolutely compare them together, and suspecting that for my needs the top level poor mans solution might equal the bottom level rich mans solution in terms of performance, it makes it difficult to know how to upgrade practically.
Any and all advice is really appreciated.
I want to upgrade. I pay a large fortune every year for the data that I require so it makes a lot of sense to spend a percentage of that to have a server capable of processing that data faster. The problem is, I am a software person, I don't know hardware, and don't really know what my best option is.
For instance, the first thing that strikes me is that the poor mans solution to running SQL Server, retail Windows with a very fast SSD drive, seems to come in at about a tenth of the cost of the next level of going with a Xeon Windows 8 server with a lot of memory. Without being able to absolutely compare them together, and suspecting that for my needs the top level poor mans solution might equal the bottom level rich mans solution in terms of performance, it makes it difficult to know how to upgrade practically.
Any and all advice is really appreciated.
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PS You need to get clear in your mind as to which processes are properly client server and can be run from your workstation against the data, and which really need to be run on the server itself.
Given that Windows 2008R2 (Sorry, what I know) has a limit of 32GB of ram, then this is what you want.
That is only if you are using the Standard Edition. Enterprise Edition supports up yo 2TB:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_server_2008_r2
That is only if you are using the Standard Edition. Enterprise Edition supports up yo 2TB:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_server_2008_r2
Hi Anthony,
That is only if you are using the Standard Edition.
Given that they are going from a laptop currently, I assumed that Enterprise Edition is too expensive to be justified.
But valid point to bring up.
Regards
David
That is only if you are using the Standard Edition.
Given that they are going from a laptop currently, I assumed that Enterprise Edition is too expensive to be justified.
But valid point to bring up.
Regards
David
I assumed that Enterprise Edition is too expensive to be justified.
Absolutely. And of course if they want to take advantage of more than 32GB of memory, that will mean that they will also need SQL Server Enterprise Edition as SQL Server Standard only supports up to 32GB.
Absolutely. And of course if they want to take advantage of more than 32GB of memory, that will mean that they will also need SQL Server Enterprise Edition as SQL Server Standard only supports up to 32GB.
Hi Anthony,
Given that most new laptops in this part of the world come with 6-8GB, 32GB is a vast improvement, and moving from a workstation to a server platform without all the debris of a workstation distracting will be an improvement.
Laptops having slow disks - typically 4700 rpm vs servers at 10k or 15k rpm so an upgrade to a real server solution will be huge. Cost will be huge.
@Graeme_SM
If new server hardware is too expensive, look at getting some second-hand ie ex lease refurbished.
Speed of disks especially for transaction logs is huge hence my initial comment about SSD's for data etc.
Cost of OS isn't bad, but for my money, you are running a production system, so will have to pay for SQL. I don't see that SQL Developer fits your situation. But check your local MS Licencing centre - unfortunately keeping up with MS Licencing is a full time job as it changes quite frequently. (Almost every version of Windows/SQL.)
Regards
David
Given that most new laptops in this part of the world come with 6-8GB, 32GB is a vast improvement, and moving from a workstation to a server platform without all the debris of a workstation distracting will be an improvement.
Laptops having slow disks - typically 4700 rpm vs servers at 10k or 15k rpm so an upgrade to a real server solution will be huge. Cost will be huge.
@Graeme_SM
If new server hardware is too expensive, look at getting some second-hand ie ex lease refurbished.
Speed of disks especially for transaction logs is huge hence my initial comment about SSD's for data etc.
Cost of OS isn't bad, but for my money, you are running a production system, so will have to pay for SQL. I don't see that SQL Developer fits your situation. But check your local MS Licencing centre - unfortunately keeping up with MS Licencing is a full time job as it changes quite frequently. (Almost every version of Windows/SQL.)
Regards
David
ASKER
David,
The current laptop configuration is i7 @ 2.8Ghz, 16 GB memory and 750 GB SSD (SATA 3). I'm running the evaluation version of SQL Server 2012 on it although will probably eventually convert that to the developer version when that is available.
I guess I should mention my budget is about $10,000 as that is a big consideration.
The work will just be run on a Server, not Client/Server.
Can SSD drives be run on SAS, I thought they are only SATA?
Also any recommendations for suppliers who are proficient at making SSD servers? I tried looking at the Dell site, but they seem to only offer limited options for SSD drives, in many configurations not at all, and even when they did only on SATA 2 controllers (which I read is true of HP also). Another issue, admittedly from an article in 2009, was that RAID 5 caused bottlenecks when using more than a few SSD drives.
The current laptop configuration is i7 @ 2.8Ghz, 16 GB memory and 750 GB SSD (SATA 3). I'm running the evaluation version of SQL Server 2012 on it although will probably eventually convert that to the developer version when that is available.
I guess I should mention my budget is about $10,000 as that is a big consideration.
The work will just be run on a Server, not Client/Server.
Can SSD drives be run on SAS, I thought they are only SATA?
Also any recommendations for suppliers who are proficient at making SSD servers? I tried looking at the Dell site, but they seem to only offer limited options for SSD drives, in many configurations not at all, and even when they did only on SATA 2 controllers (which I read is true of HP also). Another issue, admittedly from an article in 2009, was that RAID 5 caused bottlenecks when using more than a few SSD drives.
Hi,
There now are SSD drives that are plug replaceable with normal hard drives, which leads me to conclude they are available in SAS.
Given that we are almost halfway through 2013, the information you read in 2009 about SSD's is quite likely out of date. So, I think that you need to talk to some suppliers. Given that Dell tends to be an order your own from what many find a confusing web-site, find the HP and IBM dealers and talk to them. Find those that sell ex-leased servers and likewise to them as well. They may know of devices (SSDs) that aren't strictly HP or IBM but will work well in those chassis.
I'd be interested in what they counters that I referred to earlier suggest your bottleneck is. Your laptop sound pretty fast. But if the bottleneck is CPU/Ram and the disk is handling things well, then maybe a mirror of a couple of reasonably sized SATA SSD's would do the trick.
I think that you may need to tune your process. In the first instance do you have sufficient indexes in place, and in the second, are they maintained? You should at least be checking after each data load
RE evaluation edition of SQL - I recommend that you talk to MS Licencing as you aren't developing, you are using real data for a real outcome. Try an action pack subscription which currently includes the BI Edition of SQL 2012. (Action pack is a subscription similar to MSDN or TechNet, but can be used for business and not just test/development)
You seem to have a reasonable budget for this project. But some its not infinite. So some of the above checking I think is necessary to pinpoint the current bottlenecks prior to parting with your cash.
Regards
David
There now are SSD drives that are plug replaceable with normal hard drives, which leads me to conclude they are available in SAS.
Given that we are almost halfway through 2013, the information you read in 2009 about SSD's is quite likely out of date. So, I think that you need to talk to some suppliers. Given that Dell tends to be an order your own from what many find a confusing web-site, find the HP and IBM dealers and talk to them. Find those that sell ex-leased servers and likewise to them as well. They may know of devices (SSDs) that aren't strictly HP or IBM but will work well in those chassis.
I'd be interested in what they counters that I referred to earlier suggest your bottleneck is. Your laptop sound pretty fast. But if the bottleneck is CPU/Ram and the disk is handling things well, then maybe a mirror of a couple of reasonably sized SATA SSD's would do the trick.
I think that you may need to tune your process. In the first instance do you have sufficient indexes in place, and in the second, are they maintained? You should at least be checking after each data load
RE evaluation edition of SQL - I recommend that you talk to MS Licencing as you aren't developing, you are using real data for a real outcome. Try an action pack subscription which currently includes the BI Edition of SQL 2012. (Action pack is a subscription similar to MSDN or TechNet, but can be used for business and not just test/development)
You seem to have a reasonable budget for this project. But some its not infinite. So some of the above checking I think is necessary to pinpoint the current bottlenecks prior to parting with your cash.
Regards
David
ASKER
The other item is that several times a year genetic algorithms are run against this data . These run in memory and are CPU intensive. At the moment these processes takes from weeks to a month to complete. They are running parallel/multi-threaded at maximum capacity on a laptop CPU, so I imagine that powerful multi-core chips on a proper server would vastly speed up the processes.
However I say I imagine, because I am a neophyte in terms of understanding hardware and just got completely lost when I tried to look at and configure a server on the Dell site.