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DanloFlag for United States of America

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Server 2012 vs SBS 2011 - Features and Licensing

Hello Experts,

I'm having difficulty deciphering the Server 2012 licensing requirements. Please forgive me for the verbosity of this question.

I need to upgrade an SBS 2003 environment. Current software/features requirements: DC/AD, Exchange, Terminal Services (Now RDS), SQL Server. SharePoint Services are not needed, nor is Web Serving (IIS) a factor, except for WSUS.

35 Users. Hardware target = 1 physical box.

The way I see it, I have 2 options: 1) SBS 2011 Premium with premium CAL's, or 2) a-la-carte Server 2012 + Exchange + SQL (+RDS?)

For the  SBS solution, I assume I could install SBS 2011 on the physical box and use it to control the AD/DC components. I Would use the built-in Exchange 2010 on this box, and run two VM's in Hyper-V... The first VM I would use the included 2nd installation of Server 2008 Standard to run SQL Server 2008, and the other VM I would install Server 2008 on and use for RDS.

Do the Premium CAL's cover the above scenario?

For the Server 2012 solution, how would I achieve the same type of setup on one physical box? The way I understand it, Server 2012 comes with licensing for up to two (2) VM's, but if you use them both, you cannot use the host OS for anything besides hosting the VM's (It can't be used for AD/DC), is this correct?

In this scenario, I assume I'd use one VM for AD/DC and Exchange, and the 2nd for SQL Server 2012. Would I then need to buy another copy of Server 2012 Standard to run RDS as a 3rd VM on this same box? What would licensing look like (minus SQL licensing) for this scenario?

Thanks in advance for the help and information.

-Dan
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JAN PAKULA
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SBS 2011 Premium is and of line - so don't go there


http://blog.smallbizthoughts.com/2012/07/microsoft-announced-end-of-sbs.html

@ licensing - rds is a role of server so you wont need 3rd VM

you would need 3 server cals (1 physical + 2 vms) - 35 users cals and 35 SQL user cals

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/client-access-license.aspx#tab=2
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@janpakula,

Thank you for the quick response! So if I understand you correctly...

Server 2012 comes with the ability to run two VM's, but I would need to purchase the separate Server licenses for both of those VM's?

I can add the RDS role to either of the two VM's, as part of the Server 2012 Standard license?

Thanks again,
-Dan
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OK Perfect - that tells me what I needed to know.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

-Dan
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@cgaliher,

I appreciate the response, especially after there are no more points to be awarded (on this particular post, anyway...). I have some questions though regarding your post:

I agree that SBS 2011 would still be viable, especially since the company looking for an upgrade is currently still running 2003 and is only looking for newer software that will work with Office 2013. Of course, upgrading to any Exchange above 2007 means upgrading the whole server family, so here we are.

I'm a little confused by your comment
SBS *cannot* be a Hyper-V host. If you go the SBS route (which I think is perfectly acceptable), you will install Hyper-V and then install SBS as a guest and then a second OS as a second guest...
Is this in theory or in practice? Because (and maybe my definition of 'SBS' is not accurate, but) I also support another business currently utilizing the following setup:

Physical Server 1: SBS 2008 Installed. Domain Controller, Active Directory, Exchange. Hyper-V Installed and hosting 1 VM: Server 2008 Std (for Web Server).

Physical Server 2: Server 2008 R2 Standard Installed. SQL Server 2008. Also Running Hyper-V with one VM: Server 2008 R2 Std (for Remote Desktop Services [TS]).

Also, If I "install Hyper-V and then install SBS as a guest", which OS would Hyper-V be running on?

Regarding Server 2012 (and back to the company in question), you hit the nail on the head in terms of answering the underlying question - which is what licensing is required to match SBS Premium and TS CAL's.

SQL version will depend on whether SBS 2011 is used (SQL 2008) or Server 2012 is used (SQL 2012). Their current LOB apps run on SQL 2005, so either will be fine.

(Should we move this discussion to a new post?)

-Dan
Cgaliher is 100% correct. SBS is not supported running Hyper-V although it can be done, it breaks things.

Alan
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Hi Cgaliher

agree with you that 4 vms is neater solution - and it would be easier to manage and troubelshoot - not mentioning backups.



@VM2: Exchange (cannot be on a DC) - sure it can - its just not recommended

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms.exch.setupreadiness.warninginstallexchangerolesondomaincontroller(v=exchg.150).aspx

@VM4: SQL (technically you could coexist this on one of the above servers, but since you have licensing for 4VMs, might as well break it off and keep things clean.) - which if you dont have money for it, you can save - up to Danlo to decide if he wants to spend extra money on licensing

I would spend extra to have nice 4 vms setup - but if cost of licensing is issue then 2 vms would be enough.
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Hi All,

All of this information is incredibly helpful! I definitely appreciate the attention to detail this question has received. I hate diving into licensing, because (for me, at least) the sea of compliance vs noncompliance is so murky. This all helps a great deal!

OK, now onto answering some of your questions and comments.

@alanhardisty - I understand what you're offering in terms of making sure I'm satisfied with the given answers, but I don't know if I feel comfortable 'docking' points from someone after the answer has already been accepted as a solution. (I've subscribed to EE a long time, but I don't utilize it very often so I honestly don't know if that sort of thing is protocol / generally accepted). That being said, however, I would definitely like to see Cgaliher receive something for his input, since it has been useful, and also caused me to think about and question some things I would have created additional questions for anyway. Again - I'm not up to speed on protocol and ToS - but would opening another question to have Cgaliher answer it be acceptable?

@ Cgaliher - I'll definitely look into the SBS/Hyper-V setup of company #2, to see how that was achieved. If no changes are made to their current configuration, It looks like 4 server licenses are required (1 license for each physical server to run Hyper-V on, and an additional license per physical server to enable other roles on host OS), is that correct ?

Referring back to company #1, Buying Server 2012 Std. and running 2VM's is essentially the same (license-wise) as Installing H-V Server 2012 as the host, and buying a license for 2012 (thus enabling 2 VM's), no?

So the way I understand the licensing now, please correct me if any of the following is wrong or not best practice:

RDS is used to connect several users to the LoB using four (4) terminals. There is 1 employee that works remotely (from home)

For Server 2012,

1. Configuration

I would buy two Server 2012 Std. Licenses, giving me 4 VM's total. I could then install either Server 2012 Std or just H-V Server 2012 on the physical box, and have 4 separate VM's:
AD/DC
Exchange
SQL
RDS

2. Licensing

35 Server CALs
35 Exchange CALs
If I get 5 RDS Device CALs and 5 user CAL's, we should be covered, right? Would I also need Server 2012 Device CAL's for those terminals?
For SQL, I would need 35 user CALs and 5 Device CALs
For SBS 2011,

1. Configuration

I would buy SBS 2011 Premium, and a Standalone Server 2008 Std. giving me 3 VM's total (??). I would then install H-V Server 2008 on the physical box, and have 3 separate VM's:
AD/DC + Exchange
SQL
RDS

2. Licensing

35 SBS Premium CALs
Would I need separate CALs for RDS? If I get 5 RDS Device CALs and 5 user CAL's, we should be covered, right? Would I also need SBS 2011 Premium Device CAL's for those terminals?
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Well, this does get interesting then (if you can't blend CAL types). This is what I meant when I said "murky"... Sigh.

I was hoping not to have to bore everyone with the details.

See, the "terminals" are actually just thin clients that are stationed around the shop (warehouse), utilizing touch-screen monitors for user input. Each "terminal" stays persistently logged into a TS session (via RDP) on the Terminal Server. Each of those 4 sessions is locked down to run only a single application - a small extension of the LoB that reads/writes directly to/from the SQL database.

The LoB extension can be thought of as a punch-clock-type of application, used for tracking progress of jobs outside in the warehouse. As it takes only seconds to punch their code in at the terminal, each employee is never using a terminal for more than 3 or 4 minutes (total) throughout the day. At any given moment, any one of the 30 warehouse employees can be using any one of the 4 terminals, since many of their tasks involve working in different areas of the 60k SqFt warehouse.

The individuals that utilize these terminals are employees in the warehouse and are not part of the 35 users in the office.

The reason for wanting to include the device CALs, was to cover those 4 terminals, rather than the 30-something additional employees.

Sorry for the added complications, but it sounds like the licensing just got more, well, complicated.

-Dan
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So there's no way to use a Device CAL and a User CAL on the same server OS?

If not, what about...

1. Server 2012 license 1 of 2

VM #1
AD/DC
VM#2
Exchange
35 server User CALs
35 Exchange user CALs


2. Server 2012 license 2 of 2

VM #3
SQL
VM#4
RDS
SQL 4-Core license
5 RDS Device CALs


Or am I way off base?

Thanks again,
-Dan
Given your deeper explanation, you will also need 5 server device CALs (or 30+ more server user CALs) to cover the server OS itself for those warehouse workers. And the work at home user will be limited to one device.
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Thanks so much - this has been extremely helpful.
-Dan