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Windows 7 "No Internet Access"

I have a client Lenovo notebook running Win 7 Home Premium.

The machine can access the local network, but has no internet access.

The problem is the same with both wired and wifi network adapters.

All other machines on the same router have no problems connecting to the local network or to the internet.

The Lenovo can ping anything inside the local system, but times out on external servers.

It can resolve DNS - if I ping "google.com", it resolves to to the IP address but then gets no response.

Things I have done:

1)   Restored form system restore point prior to problem
2)   Disabled Firewall (No AV installed)
3)   TCP/IP Resets:   ipconfig /release, /renew
                                netsh int ip reset
                                netsh winsock reset all
4)   Disabled / Enabled & Uninstalled / Reinstalled both network adapters
5)   Installed and Ran "RogueKiller & MBAM
                               (removed "SearchProtect" and "Pokki")
6)   Wasted about half a day so far, and pulled out several of my scarce-already hairs...


Machine was working normally until a day or two ago.  It belongs to a part-time employee who uses it remotely.  He just brought it to me this morning.  He said he thinks a Windows Update was respionsible.  

Cannot get internet connectivity to check and apply/re-apply any updates...


Help appreciated.

Thanks
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Trent Thomas
Asked:
Trent Thomas
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2 Solutions
 
Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
ipconfig /all post

do when on WiFi

and do when on LAN
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
OK. Will run and post ASAP.  Thanks
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
On WiFI:

C:\Users\Bruce>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Bruce-PC
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : oaks.local

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection 3:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft Virtual WiFi Miniport Adapter #
2
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 9C-4E-36-28-35-B1
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection 2:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft Virtual WiFi Miniport Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 9C-4E-36-28-35-B1
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : oaks.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Centrino(R) Wireless-N 2200
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 9C-4E-36-28-35-B0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::1500:d078:55f:999a%17(Preferred)
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.118(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, December 16, 2013 12:13:34 PM
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:14:35 PM
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
   DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 379342390
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-17-4A-88-68-9C-4E-36-28-35-B0

   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : oaks.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek PCIe FE Family Controller
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 04-7D-7B-B8-12-AF
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter isatap.oaks.local:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : oaks.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes






On LAN


C:\Users\Bruce>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Bruce-PC
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : oaks.local

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection 3:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft Virtual WiFi Miniport Adapter #
2
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 9C-4E-36-28-35-B1
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection 2:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft Virtual WiFi Miniport Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 9C-4E-36-28-35-B1
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : oaks.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Centrino(R) Wireless-N 2200
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 9C-4E-36-28-35-B0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : oaks.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek PCIe FE Family Controller
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 04-7D-7B-B8-12-AF
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::55de:287c:828a:fab7%11(Preferred)
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.116(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Monday, December 16, 2013 12:57:59 PM
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:57:59 PM
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
   DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 503610747
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-17-4A-88-68-9C-4E-36-28-35-B0

   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter isatap.oaks.local:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : oaks.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

C:\Users\Bruce>
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
Ok that looks good.

You do not have the LAN and WiFi connected at the same time do you?

Test by disabling one or the other .


Also

Open network and sharing center
What do you show in the view and display full map?  Post please
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rindiCommented:
Makes sure you have not proxy settings in your browser (provided there is no proxy server in your environment).
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Screenshot uploaded.

No, I am not connecting to both adapters at same time.

192.168.0.2 is an HP Server running Server2008.
192.168.0.1 is a Firebox Router
screenshot.jpg
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
No proxy.  No browser references to proxy.
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piattndCommented:
Proxy wouldn't impact pinging google.com though, so it's likely not that, but Rindi is correct in that you want it turned off or confirm it's configured correctly (if you use a proxy).

Try disabling the IPv6 protocol on the workstation.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929852
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Have already tried disabling IPv6, but will do it again.
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rindiCommented:
From the way I understand the Question, he can ping google.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Disabled v6 and rebooted.

Still same issue.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
lets try this.

msconfig

on services tab hide on Microsoft programs disable all others

on startup tab hide all

restart

Lets see if something that you may have running is causing the problem.

I saw your image on the show full map see this many times for wiFi

You get the same on the LAN correct?

Let try msconfig
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
I cannot ping "google.com" - it does not get a response.

What I said was that the machine WAS resolving the DNS to an IP number.
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piattndCommented:
Try resetting the TCP/IP protocol:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/299357
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piattndCommented:
If that doesn't work, try:

netsh_winsock_reset

Reboot the computer after.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Did the "netsh int ip reset" already.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Did "netsh_winsock_reset" already.  

About 5 times...

Will try all again.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
TrentThomas

Try my suggestion above.

msconfig

something running on this computer is blocking this from working.

Lets get back to a basic setup.

Or if this just started

try restoring back to a good restore point
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piattndCommented:
Ahh yes, I see that now in your question, sorry about that!

You can do what Tgr suggests, but I would boot the machine into safe mode with networking and try pinging externally then.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
I have done the msconfig changes and still no change.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
Ok lets try this

Lets just use the LAN adapter and lets hard code the ip address information in the adapter

Lets not use DHCP for this test.

Make sure you choose an ip address outside of the DHCP scope.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Have also already restored to a couple different restore points.

One from two days ago, and the one I an now working under, from about 3 weeks ago.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
Try the above

can you try a different network cable also.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
trgrassijr55, I don't underestand.

Tell me more specifically what you want for IP input.
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piattndCommented:
I highly highly doubt this issue has to do with network hardware (it happens with direct connect AND wireless) or statically assigning an IP address (internal access works and connectivity to the gateway has been established/confirmed).

Boot into safe mode and try the ping tests again (make sure to choose safe mode with networking).

If you still have the problem, uninstall the device and find the most up to date drivers out there for the network card.  When prompted to either replace or use existing drivers, make sure you replace the drivers.
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tmoore1962Commented:
If you can tracert www.yahoo.com and it resolves could the firewall for the network have any kind of access set by MAC address or other controls in place?
Have you reset the IE to defaults.  (it didn't get IE11 installed by chance? if so uninstall then default IE settings)
Since you already have disabled IVp6 try these:
netsh int ipv4 reset c:\resetivp4log.txt
netsh int ipv6 reset c:\resetivp6log.txt
netsh winsock reset catalog
reboot and try internet again
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piattndCommented:
Also, to confirm local route table isn't the culprit (pretty sure it's not), do a:

tracert google.com

The first (and only successful) response should be the gateway for your network.
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DonNetwork AdministratorCommented:
Do you have the service Bonjour running ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLy6sRFdRJY
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
piattnd, will try the Safe Mode w/ Networking and report back.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
Open network and sharing center

click on change adapter settings

right click on the LAN adapter and select properties

select Internet Protocal version V4 click on properties

currently  Obtain an Ip address automatically is selected

choose Use the following ip address

enter 192.168.0.?????                    choose one outside of DHCP scope
subnet mask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.0.2

DNS server 192.168.0.2

click ok

from command prompt

ipconfig /release

then ipconfig /renew

then ipconfig /all post again
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piattndCommented:
click ok

from command prompt

ipconfig /release

then ipconfig /renew

then ipconfig /all post again

Do not do this.  ipconfig /release and /renew commands are only used with DHCP, which you are not using when you statically assign an address (which again I think is unnecessary here)
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DonNetwork AdministratorCommented:
In services.msc Do you have the service Bonjour running ??
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Safe Mode w/networking gives same results.

tracert "google.com" is successful only over my gateway (1ms).

I do not have bonjour installed.

It has IE10 installed, but it is never used.  Uses Chrome.

When I opened IE10, it tried to go through the initial setup routine.

Will try tmoore's netsh commands and report back.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
No joy...
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piattndCommented:
Do you have any way to confirm you get the same behavior when you're on a different network?  Do you have any capability of viewing real time data or historical network traffic logs on your gateway device?

Just my theory thus far:

Either your gateway/firewall is preventing traffic back in to this host or your host is attempting to communicate using IPv6 and your gateway can handle it, but the next hop cannot.  It sounds like you did take the necessary steps to disable IPv6 on the station, so I think that crosses that off the list....

Try uninstalling the drivers for the network card and reinstalling new ones (if you haven't already).  Removing and adding the device again isn't sufficient, as it will use the same driver files by default.  While I doubt this will fix it, it is conceivable that something messed with the drivers breaking external access but allowing internal (via 192.168 address space allowance).  What they would gain by that, I don't know...
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
run this arp -a post results

we are only working on the LAN connection now right?

Have you tried to disable the wiFi nic yet?
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
piattnd, good idea about trying to replicate same behavior on different network.  I cannot do it here at the office, but I might be able to take the machine offsite tonight.

I do not have any way (that I know of) to see network data or logs.

I see where you're going with the uninstalling drivers, but would this effect both adapters?

I'll give it a try...
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piattndCommented:
If it was a piece of malware that messed with the network drivers, then yes I would expect it to attack any network device present at the time of infection.

Interested to see your results from another network....

If I think of anything else between now and then, I'll post it, but I'm pretty fresh out of ideas.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Well, as I hoped to avoid, now I'm going backwards.

I deleted the wifi adapted and its drivers, and now it cannot find drivers to reinstall it.

Stupidly, I did not record the info from the device or drivers.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
Can you ping another device on the network?

What happens if you ping 192.168.0.2?

What type of Router is 192.168.0.2?

Could it be blocking the ip address by mac address?
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
Just go back to the previous restore point your drivers will be back.

If you can ping the router as above then your network drivers are fine test that first before removing drivers.
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piattndCommented:
Go to Lenovo's site and put in the service tag info.  They hold all the driver information for that laptop.
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piattndCommented:
Of course you'll need USB or CD to get the drivers to the machine :)
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Nah, I can still plug up the cat5 and use that adapter to transfer over the network.

Will do that if the restore doesn't work.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
OK, restored back to same point I was working with before (3 weeks ago.)

Wifi drivers are back and working properly.

I CAN ping any address within my local network (192.168.0.xxx), but still nothing outside.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
Ok then the drivers are not the problem

do the arp -a post please
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piattndCommented:
The user did mention that this appeared to happen after some updates, correct?  Look in add/remove programs and see if it remove the updates that were installed recently.  I'm curious if the restore isn't removing those updates.  Perhaps uninstalling them manually might do the trick.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Sorry, posting is a pain cause I have to copy to another machine first.

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>ping 192.168.0.1

Pinging 192.168.0.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.0.1:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),


C:\Windows\system32>arp -a

Interface: 192.168.0.118 --- 0xb
  Internet Address      Physical Address      Type
  192.168.0.1           00-90-7f-19-de-98     dynamic
  192.168.0.2           f4-ce-46-c3-85-a4     dynamic
  192.168.0.45          00-20-6b-6c-c6-dd     dynamic
  192.168.0.255         ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff     static
  224.0.0.22            01-00-5e-00-00-16     static
  224.0.0.252           01-00-5e-00-00-fc     static
  239.255.255.250       01-00-5e-7f-ff-fa     static
  255.255.255.255       ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff     stati
C:\Windows\system32>
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
It shows the latest updates installed 10/20/2013.  
The machine worked fine well after that date.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
That arp -a paste is from the Wifi adapter.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
again what type of router is this?
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
I've got to take a break from this and get some other things done.

Please keep the ideas coming, and I will review a little later this evening.

Thanks so much for all your efforts so far.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
From earlier post:

192.168.0.2 is an HP Server running Server2008.
192.168.0.1 is a Firebox Router

I can't see how the router or server configuration is at fault since it is still working properly for every other device on the network and nothing in it's configuration has changed in at least the last 6 months.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
have you tried pinging

ping 192.168.0.1

ping 192.168.0.2

Results?

can you ping using fqdn? from the computer to the server and from the server to the computer?

Did this computer register in DNS? check your DNS server entries?
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Other computers can ping the Lenovo successfully,
and the Lenovo can ping anything inside the 192.168.0.xxx local network.

I don't know what fqdn is, and I don't know how to check DNS server entries.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
FQDN is Fully Qualified Domain Name

ping bruce-pc.oaks.local  

ping server1.oaks.local  

as examples

oaks.local  is your domain name. add the computer name then you get FQDN

doing these types of pings will check your dns on this computer
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
bruce-pc (Lenovo) can ping HP_ML310.oaks.local successfully.


The server CANNOT ping the Lenovo by name.

It does ping 192.168.0.118, but NOT bruce-pc.oaks.local
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
ok then dns not working on your laptop.

Did you check the dns server to see if bruce-pc has registered?

also in the advanced tcp/ip settings of the adapter make sure register this connectiosn addres in dns in checked
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piattndCommented:
DNS will not register for that client.  Home Premium cannot be joined to the domain and the DNS server would not know where to register that client UNLESS you specify the "workgroup" name inside of DNS.

FYI: DNS is NOT required for general network connectivity (layer 7 protocol) testing.  I would not go into a fox chase with DNS.  To rule out DNS as a whole, ping 4.2.2.4 from the workstation.  That won't even attempt DNS resolution when attempting the ping.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Pinging 4.2.2.4 from Lenovo  gets nothing but "Request Timed Out"    100% lost
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piattndCommented:
I still think there's something odd with your gateway, but that will be confirmed either way by testing access from a separate network.  It's not impossible, but very rare for local machines issues to know exactly what is internal and function properly for internal resources, then decidedly break when accessing something that is no longer internal.  The only time I've ever faced that was with a virus, a very nasty one.  I ended up reimaging the machine rather than continuing to troubleshoot the issue (it was a 30 minute vs 4 hour decision).
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Thanks.  

I'll take it home with me this evening and report back.
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piattndCommented:
I wish you good luck, both for your sanity and mine! ;-)
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Well, as fate would have it, I fired it up at my son's basketball practice and I can see the world.

I logged in to the  guest network, and it started same as before, with only local access.  I knew this particular network requires an acceptance , so I fired up  IE. Like I said before, it wanted to do the initial setup routine, so this time I let it. (Told it to accept default settings.)  It then took me to the acceptance page (on some local IP page), and then Yahoo popped up!


Maybe the IE was in a transitory state that was preventing access...

Maybe that login screen triggered some change...


Chrome was broken and wanted to be re-installed, so that might have something to do with it...

Maybe some of the tweaks we made this afternoon had to simmer for a bit...

Maybe the computer gods were just doing that thing they sometimes do.


Anyway, now I'm back to waiting to see it it will work in the office tomorrow.


Stay tuned...
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Test 2 passed:  internet access from my home network.
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Thomas GrassiSystems AdministratorCommented:
TrentThomas

Sorry I was out getting car fixed.

Yes Home Prem will not join domain it is not a Business aedition OS

Only way to get this to work is Like I posted a while ago

Hard code the ip address sub net mask gateway dns servers

That should work check my prior post that shows you how.
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
When I logged on to the company network this morning, it was back to no internet access.


I was using the wi-fi adapter, so I set up static IP, gateway, and DNS information in the adapter.  Still no luck - no connection after these changes and a couple reboot cycles.

So, I resolved myself to failure and changed it back to "obtain automatically" just so he could get hotspot access.

Well, as soon as i made this switch, it connected.



I then tried the same process with the LAN adapter.  
Set to static, no connect.
Reboot, still no connect.  
Set back to auto, get connection.

Wow.


Anyway, it is up and running for now.  I went through all the windows updates last night. I also got Security Essentials installed, and ran through updates and scans with MBAM and SuperAntiSpyware.


Thanks for all your help and ideas.


I will award points and split between  trgrassijr55  and  piattnd.  

You guys tell me what you think is appropriate split.


Thanks again.
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piattndCommented:
Odd indeed.  Glad you got it to work, but I wish I had some sort of explanation (both for you and myself).  You split the points as you see fit!

Good luck!
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Trent ThomasVPAuthor Commented:
Split 60/40 in  trgrassijr55's favor.  He was first to respond, and stayed with me the whole way, and his ideas did ultimately prove to work, though we still don't understand why.

piattnd gets the rest, due to his commitment to help and several good ideas along the way, most notably trying an outside network.

Thanks also to the others who chimed in.  I would give points here, but these were all ideas I had already looked at.
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