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Win 8.1 Disk Optimization problem (cannot optimize drive)

Posted on 2013-12-26
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Last Modified: 2013-12-28
Purchased new Lenovo system, upgraded from Win 8.0 to 8.1.  Copied stuff from old system to new, went to defrag the system.  There is one drive that shows in Disk Optimization, that does not optimize, no matter how many times I click on it.  In the Optimization attachment I am talking about  the "\\?\Volume..." drive.  I also attached a screen shot of the System disk admin screen.  I found some articles online that refer to the upgrade from Win 8.0 to 8.1, but I have not found out how to fix (optimize the drive).
Optimization.PNG
DiskAdmin.PNG
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Question by:eelou
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by:John Hurst
ID: 39740546
The system probably has Backup turned on and that is probably a backup partition. I have ThinkPad X230 with Windows 8.1 and do not have that partition.

So assuming the above, it is probably not worth worrying about and does not need to be defragged.

Your main disk (the operating disk) is the one that may need defragging occasionally.

.... Thinkpads_User
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by:eelou
ID: 39740574
There is one 2TB HHD.  Are you telling me that 1836 Gb of it is a backup partition?  I went to file history...it is turned off and shows "your files haven't been backed up".   Did you look at the attachments?
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by:John Hurst
ID: 39740587
I looked at the attachments and could not determine what the strange identifier was referring to.

No, I do not think it is all backup.

Since the system is new, I would call Lenovo support. I am getting a Lenovo desktop with 1 Tb drives and did not see 2Tb drives for that system. Did it come with 2 Tb drives or did you add this one?

... Thinkpads_User
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Author Comment

by:eelou
ID: 39740664
system: Lenovo IdeaCenter Desktop i7, 16GB Memory, 2TB Hard drive ($699.00 Black Friday special)
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by:John Hurst
ID: 39740675
Thanks for the update. I would call Lenovo support to find why the main partition will not defrag. Defrag runs on smaller drives but I have not tried the 2 Tb drive.

... Thinkpads_User
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Expert Comment

by:noxcho
ID: 39741536
You cannot optimize this drive while it is a protected secure partition. It contains your backup. It is NTFS partition with protective partition id. Any changes made to such partitions (including defrag) will destroy or corrupt the content of such partitions.
Leave it as is. The content of this drive is not changing and thus it does not need defragmentation. Your interest in optiomization is in C system drive.
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Author Comment

by:eelou
ID: 39741787
It contains the largest partition of the 2TB drive.   How do I get control of it's size (reduce it) so that this space is available for other things beside backup?  If I add files to my system, will the size of my C drive increase, and the size of the backup partition decrease?  Is this last item on this page....http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1-performance/defragmenter-doesnt-work-on-windows-81-and-hdd/900b224a-45e5-4414-aba9-eb5bf98503b6, totally off base?
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Expert Comment

by:noxcho
ID: 39742303
According to your DiAsmin.png screen capture the most of your space is allocated to C drive which is 1800GB. And it is ok in your optimization list. Its name is Windows8_OS partition. Why do you think that your recovery partition which is 24GB only has most your space?
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Author Comment

by:eelou
ID: 39742662
It is the Optimized drives screen shot that has caused my confusion.  It shows that the \\?\Volume{92.. drive  needs to be optimized, yet no matter how times I tried this, nothing happened.  What contributed to my confusion was that when I examined the properties of the C driver, it had about 500 GB of used disk space, which pretty much agreed with the 500 MB Healthy partition on the disk management screen (yes, I recognize now that MB is different from GB, and, that it also says OEM).  I was thinking that this was the 500 GB that I had used up on the drive, and did not notice that the other Boot drive was actually the C drive.  I had never before (on multiple systems) not been able to defrag a drive, so this was causing me some concern (it has been confusing a number of people from what I found online, and their confusion confused me even more).  I take it that this is the recovery partition (?), and thus cannot be de-fragmented?
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by:John Hurst
ID: 39742673
A recovery or backup partition does not need to be defragged as I noted above. I think Perfect Disk can defrag such partitions, but there is no real need.
... Thinkpads_User
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by:noxcho
ID: 39742925
"...and thus cannot be defragged?" - exactly. If you look again on your Windows Disk Management screen shot then you will see that your recovery partition even does not show its file system. And without knowing its file system Windows cannot defragment it. And the file system is hidden by security bit on this partition (mostly partition ID) for security reasons.
If you are still eager to defrag this partition then you need to change its id, assign it a drive letter and only after that try to defrag it. But I would not recommend it as long this partition is not acessed routinly you do not need to do anything with it.
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Author Comment

by:eelou
ID: 39742932
Not to drag this on much longer...

Is the information stored somewhere that correlates what I see in the Optimize drive screen with what I see in the Disk management screen?  The C drive is easy.  The PBR_DRV is the Healthy OEM Partition.  I am guessing that the WINR_DRV is the Healthy EFI System Partition.
The three Health Recovery Partitons are totaled together into the \\?\Volume.. ?

Is there a reason that there are three Recovery parttions?
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Assisted Solution

by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points
ID: 39742946
I have 3 small partitions on my ThinkPad X230 - Two recovery, one system. I think Lenovo probably initialized a second recovery partition for use with their backup. So what you have is normal.

.... Thinkpads_User
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by:noxcho
ID: 39743001
The first 1000MB partition could be Windows partition but Lenovo uses it as well. The 350MB normally should contain the boot environment and 24GB the backup image. I suspect the number of them is influenced by the fact that your system is installed on GPT drive. Anyhow this is ok.
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Author Comment

by:eelou
ID: 39743925
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/40f23611-658c-47e8-abe4-ca2843d30228/strange-new-drive-created-by-windows-81-update?forum=w8itproinstall.  

You have to go down a bit on this link, but eventually you will see that the \\?\ volume is...
------------------
1) That strange name on the volume like \\?\Volume{GUID}\  is actually the name of the volume.

You can read more about that here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa365248(v=vs.85).aspx
-------------------------
Yep that is the MSR volume and expected to be present on the system using GPT disks.  This is required for any GPT disk.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know why this is a GPT disk as research says that you can label a disk as MBR if it is less than 2.2 TB, (but I am not going to spend any time on this).

I did do a mountVol and did find that same guid (along with others) that the \\?\ volume has.  Somewhere on this link it says that they have no idea of why it shows in Disk Optimization.  Obviously something to be ignored for now.

I am going to split the credits here, but thought that I would give you a the opportunity (if you wanted it), to say anything else.
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Accepted Solution

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noxcho earned 250 total points
ID: 39744069
It is GPT because:
1) the uefi mode was enabled in BIOS
2) the drive had more than 4 primary partitions.

The guid names have often the name with ? Symbol.
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by:John Hurst
ID: 39744090
@eelou - Thank you and I was happy to help here.

.... Thinkpads_User
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