FocIS
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Four 'AA' batteries and a deadbolt, how to hard wire
I know this is a long shot, but I figure if there's a Religion category, i should be able to ask a question about AA batteries too
I have little to no electrical background but i will explain the situation
I have a powered door lock on the side door of my house. I'm sick of replacing the batteries almost weekly, so i'd like to see how i can replace them with an ac to dc adapter
I have seen the first 20 google search results, but i have an issue not covered by those links.
With the four AA batteries in the internal battery box in the lock, positioned in series
when i measure the battery box +/- it reads 5.98 volts dc, and the lock works perfectly.
when i move the battery box to the other end of a 20 foot copper wire run, the voltage is still the same and the lock still works perfectly
when i connect an ac to dc adapter to the 20 foot wire instead of the battery box, the lock exhibits these symptoms:
with a DC6V 2.0A ac to dc adapter: it barely budges, the bolt doesn't move, but the lock is powered
with a DC6V 0.200A ac to dc adapter: it moves a little bit more but not enough to unlock it (have to put in the unlock code 7-8 times to move the bolt the 5 inches)
the dc adapters test at 6.28 volts DC output
so the question is what specifically can i do to get non-battery power to this lock?
I have little to no electrical background but i will explain the situation
I have a powered door lock on the side door of my house. I'm sick of replacing the batteries almost weekly, so i'd like to see how i can replace them with an ac to dc adapter
I have seen the first 20 google search results, but i have an issue not covered by those links.
With the four AA batteries in the internal battery box in the lock, positioned in series
when i measure the battery box +/- it reads 5.98 volts dc, and the lock works perfectly.
when i move the battery box to the other end of a 20 foot copper wire run, the voltage is still the same and the lock still works perfectly
when i connect an ac to dc adapter to the 20 foot wire instead of the battery box, the lock exhibits these symptoms:
with a DC6V 2.0A ac to dc adapter: it barely budges, the bolt doesn't move, but the lock is powered
with a DC6V 0.200A ac to dc adapter: it moves a little bit more but not enough to unlock it (have to put in the unlock code 7-8 times to move the bolt the 5 inches)
the dc adapters test at 6.28 volts DC output
so the question is what specifically can i do to get non-battery power to this lock?
ASKER
i know it didnt make sense to me either, the more amps should have moved it more but it was the opposite. probably bad construction of the adapters
i have no way to measure amps (i have like 4 volt meters, maybe i can but not sure how) all i can say for sure it the dc output was 6.28 - but these are small no-name generic ones from overseas
can you point me in the direction of what to specifically buy? seems like a 6v 10a is hard to come by (radioshack/ebay/google)
i have no way to measure amps (i have like 4 volt meters, maybe i can but not sure how) all i can say for sure it the dc output was 6.28 - but these are small no-name generic ones from overseas
can you point me in the direction of what to specifically buy? seems like a 6v 10a is hard to come by (radioshack/ebay/google)
Suggestions
Try another 6 Volt 2 Amp power supply in case the first one was faulty. A good one may have sufficient power to do it and you may not need a 6 Volt 10 Amp one.
Try another 6 Volt 2 Amp power supply in case the first one was faulty. A good one may have sufficient power to do it and you may not need a 6 Volt 10 Amp one.
The pick of 10 amps was just a number. I just went to my recycle box and fished out 4 AA cells. One of them gave me 5 Amps.
I don't think 2 Amps of unregulated DC will do the trick.
Depending on what the store can offer you, a 6A or greater supply should work.
I don't think 2 Amps of unregulated DC will do the trick.
Depending on what the store can offer you, a 6A or greater supply should work.
ASKER
Any harm in going higher amps? If one random AA gives 5, should i get 20 amps?
I'll head up to the local shack monday and see what they have - unless there's something specific i can find online
I'll head up to the local shack monday and see what they have - unless there's something specific i can find online
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it can be, if you hook up a large 6v capacitor to it's output, that the 2A adapter does work (with the discharge of the capacitor)
but is John said, you best buy an adapter with a higher rating, like 5-6 A
**ps. hooking the capacitor is always a good idea for filtering the output
but is John said, you best buy an adapter with a higher rating, like 5-6 A
**ps. hooking the capacitor is always a good idea for filtering the output
ASKER
This sounds like the best thing - can you help me find for sale a 6v, 6 or more A, regulated/filtered supply?
6 volt supplies are not all that common. 12 Volt is much more common. The 14 volt supply I have here is made by Pyramid, so you can look up that manufacturer to see if they have 6 volt supplies.
Another manufacturer is Acopian and they do have 6 volt supplies: 3, 4, 5 and 6 amp. Look down the list for Mini with screw terminals and look at the product information.
http://www.acopian.com/power-supply-voltages/6-volt-power-supplies.htm
Also, look at your deadbolt specifications. It well may work with 12 Volts. and if so, 12 Volt supplies are much easier to find.
Another manufacturer is Acopian and they do have 6 volt supplies: 3, 4, 5 and 6 amp. Look down the list for Mini with screw terminals and look at the product information.
http://www.acopian.com/power-supply-voltages/6-volt-power-supplies.htm
Also, look at your deadbolt specifications. It well may work with 12 Volts. and if so, 12 Volt supplies are much easier to find.
ASKER
Oh wow I didn't realize we were talking about power supplies that are $200-$400, that might be a little over the top for this project.
If something like that is required, maybe i'm better off doing something where rechargeable batteries are used, but in a way where they're connected AND charging at the same time? Is that possible?
If something like that is required, maybe i'm better off doing something where rechargeable batteries are used, but in a way where they're connected AND charging at the same time? Is that possible?
That is why I suggested seeing if your deadbolt will take a 12V input. I got my 12 (14) Volt Pyramid for $35 or $40 and it would do what you want if the deadbolt will accept 12 V.
Failing that, rechargeable batteries are a good option, although you will probably need to recharge weekly.
Check the input voltage on the deadbolt. It may allow a range of 6 -12 volts.
Failing that, rechargeable batteries are a good option, although you will probably need to recharge weekly.
Check the input voltage on the deadbolt. It may allow a range of 6 -12 volts.
ASKER
Hmm i'll see what i can find out from the manufacturer - remember it was only designed for 4 batteries there's not actually a dc jack :)
it doesn't look too complex of a board, i'll post some pictures tonight
this was something our local big box home improvement store had on the shelf a few years back, but no longer available. the internal board has some identifying marks, i'll see what i can find for voltage tolerance.
it doesn't look too complex of a board, i'll post some pictures tonight
this was something our local big box home improvement store had on the shelf a few years back, but no longer available. the internal board has some identifying marks, i'll see what i can find for voltage tolerance.
After some reflection, you might be better to consider a new, more modern deadbolt that has a better supply arrangement.
My guess is the manufacturer of the existing deadbolt knew about the surge requirement to move the bolt, and elected batteries to keep the sales price low.
My guess is the manufacturer of the existing deadbolt knew about the surge requirement to move the bolt, and elected batteries to keep the sales price low.
another option is building a PS yourself
you need an AC transformer 110 or 220 V primary, and about 4.5 Secundary, capable of delivering on the secondary side your 5 Amps
then connect a rectifier diode (or bridge), and a filter capacitor and you're good to go
here an example; you can leave the chip out, it is only for stabilizing the voltage
you need an AC transformer 110 or 220 V primary, and about 4.5 Secundary, capable of delivering on the secondary side your 5 Amps
then connect a rectifier diode (or bridge), and a filter capacitor and you're good to go
here an example; you can leave the chip out, it is only for stabilizing the voltage
Another possibility is a remote battery. For example http://www.amazon.com/volt-4-5-Rechargeable-Battery-Electronics/dp/B002QGVW3K
Did you try rechargeable AA cells?
e.g. Five 1.2 volt NiMH AA cells in series would give you 6 volts nominal at 2 to 2.7 amps...
in a holder like http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bh-351d/batteries-holders/comf/ (~90 cents US)... NiMH cells can typically get 25-30 charges before they need to be reformed with 'break-in' cycle on a charger like the Maha Powerex MH-C9000.
e.g. Five 1.2 volt NiMH AA cells in series would give you 6 volts nominal at 2 to 2.7 amps...
in a holder like http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bh-351d/batteries-holders/comf/ (~90 cents US)... NiMH cells can typically get 25-30 charges before they need to be reformed with 'break-in' cycle on a charger like the Maha Powerex MH-C9000.
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ASKER
Great suggestions here guys - after a little research i've found that this is the Kwikset PowerBolt 907 - haven't found electrical tolerances yet but i'm considering just feeding it 12v to see what happens
nobus - your comment sounds amazing but it's way outside my ability as i only actually understand about 30% of that :)
dbrunton - that looks real interesting, a 6v 4.5a rechargeable battery i can hide in the basement... any way to keep it constantly recharging while being able to power the lock at the same time?
coral47 - interesting way to use one of the 30 old computer power supplies... so if i connect the 12v to one lead (+) and the 5v to the other lead (-) the device would receive around 7v?
i've considered rechargeable batteries, but only as far as if i can keep them constantly recharging... the goal isn't necessarily to reduce the cost of buying batteries, as much as it's having to open the lock and replace them, and getting locked out when they're too drained to open the bolt.
nobus - your comment sounds amazing but it's way outside my ability as i only actually understand about 30% of that :)
dbrunton - that looks real interesting, a 6v 4.5a rechargeable battery i can hide in the basement... any way to keep it constantly recharging while being able to power the lock at the same time?
coral47 - interesting way to use one of the 30 old computer power supplies... so if i connect the 12v to one lead (+) and the 5v to the other lead (-) the device would receive around 7v?
i've considered rechargeable batteries, but only as far as if i can keep them constantly recharging... the goal isn't necessarily to reduce the cost of buying batteries, as much as it's having to open the lock and replace them, and getting locked out when they're too drained to open the bolt.
I looked up information on the Kwikset. The technical information says not to use rechargeable batteries. That will be because of the lower voltage. Both the 907 model and the 1000 model use 4 AA cells.
However if 4.8 volts is too little, it may well accept more than 6. Worth considering.
However if 4.8 volts is too little, it may well accept more than 6. Worth considering.
>> any way to keep it constantly recharging while being able to power the lock at the same time?
Your 6 Volt 0.2 Amp power supply. The grunt is done by the battery. The power supply just keeps it topped up. And it may not need to be on all the time.
Your 6 Volt 0.2 Amp power supply. The grunt is done by the battery. The power supply just keeps it topped up. And it may not need to be on all the time.
>> ...so if i connect the 12v to one lead (+) and the 5v to the other lead (-) the device would receive around 7v?
If my memory hasn't gone completely wanky.
I remember seeing that one few years back (for a case mod), where he did that to lower the rpms of a noisy fan.
I think the 12v was positive and the 5v was negative.
Maybe it was the 3.3v. You might want to check this with a voltmeter, first... : /
Also, if you have an old AT psu (with the actual AC switch), it might work better. You wouldn't have to "jump" the green/black wires for it to run.
If my memory hasn't gone completely wanky.
I remember seeing that one few years back (for a case mod), where he did that to lower the rpms of a noisy fan.
I think the 12v was positive and the 5v was negative.
Maybe it was the 3.3v. You might want to check this with a voltmeter, first... : /
Also, if you have an old AT psu (with the actual AC switch), it might work better. You wouldn't have to "jump" the green/black wires for it to run.
Actually, they should both be positive (or both negative) for a 7V potential.
If one is positive and the other negative, the result would be 17V.
If one is positive and the other negative, the result would be 17V.
>> ...they should both be positive (or both negative)...
Might be. Unfortunately I don't have that mag anymore.
Man's Best Friend almost woke up dead, after tearing up several boxes I had stored my collection in, to make space for the new ones. : (
Might be. Unfortunately I don't have that mag anymore.
Man's Best Friend almost woke up dead, after tearing up several boxes I had stored my collection in, to make space for the new ones. : (
ASKER
alright so i just gave it some options (work, die, or something else)
i found a power supply for an external hard drive (regular molex plug) and gave it the 5V side (1.5A) and it makes the typical 1 second tone meaning "hey i have power and i'm ready"
in this way, the "lock" button throws the bolt strongly (as strong as new batteries) all the way. the unlock function retracts the bolt halfway, but i suspect it might be because it's below freezing. hitting the code to unlock again, retracts the bolt the rest of the way
then i said, "more power" and gave it the 12v 1.5A. The one second tone was significantly higher pitched then instead of stopping it just kept going. then after a few more seconds the tone stopped in a "winding down" sort of falling-off instead of abrupt. the lock didnt function at all in this mode
luckily going back to the 5v wire (5.15v dc) returned it to normal
so - assuming it needs a little oil or warmth, i think that's the fix. weird that 6.2v 2a didnt do it, but 5.15v 1.5a does.
or maybe it's the power adapter too - the 6v was a standard block type... but this 5/12 volt one has it's own rectangular block like a laptop charger would have
i found a power supply for an external hard drive (regular molex plug) and gave it the 5V side (1.5A) and it makes the typical 1 second tone meaning "hey i have power and i'm ready"
in this way, the "lock" button throws the bolt strongly (as strong as new batteries) all the way. the unlock function retracts the bolt halfway, but i suspect it might be because it's below freezing. hitting the code to unlock again, retracts the bolt the rest of the way
then i said, "more power" and gave it the 12v 1.5A. The one second tone was significantly higher pitched then instead of stopping it just kept going. then after a few more seconds the tone stopped in a "winding down" sort of falling-off instead of abrupt. the lock didnt function at all in this mode
luckily going back to the 5v wire (5.15v dc) returned it to normal
so - assuming it needs a little oil or warmth, i think that's the fix. weird that 6.2v 2a didnt do it, but 5.15v 1.5a does.
or maybe it's the power adapter too - the 6v was a standard block type... but this 5/12 volt one has it's own rectangular block like a laptop charger would have
If they're lightweight (like, a couple/few ounces) they're switching power supplies that draw power only when called for by the output; if the 'wall wart' is heavy, it's a transformer that draws the label input wattage all the time, whether any power is being called for by the output or not (with the wasted power shed by emitting heat). Same for the separate 'brick' supplies... the older heavy ones draw the rated input all the time, while the lighter ones draw full power only when the output needs it (otherwise it draws just enough to light the LED that shows mains power is connected).
You can check that with devices like Kill-a-Watt usage meters.
You can check that with devices like Kill-a-Watt usage meters.
ASKER
Nice info Darr - this one is light as a feather compared to other ones i've seen, added bonus there
i think i have a working solution, although not fully understood the difference between 6v and 5v, but it works
i had a lot of great comments here, will split points as fairly as i can
thanks to everyone who offered help here
i think i have a working solution, although not fully understood the difference between 6v and 5v, but it works
i had a lot of great comments here, will split points as fairly as i can
thanks to everyone who offered help here
Nice experimenting. Thanks for the interesting Q. : )
@FocIS - Thanks and I was happy to help.
Thank you much. : )
with a DC6V 0.200A ac to dc adapter: it moves a little bit more but not enough to unlock it
Are you sure about the above? You are say a 6V DC source A with 10 times the current capacity of 6V DC source B cannot move the bolt, but the much smaller supply can move the bolt. This makes no sense on the surface of it.
A good AA battery can supply about 6 amps when new for a short period. So what you need here is a 10 AMP 6V DC Supply. A decent electronics supply house can get you one of these. Make sure it is filtered and regulated to produce good DC and no noise.
The little adapters you used may not be filtered or regulated in any way causing what you see.