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Liberal logic?

Posted on 2014-02-26
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Last Modified: 2014-04-21
Ok, so we passed the ACA (Obamacare)  because 30 million americans didn't have health insurance.  Since we passed it, 6 million lost their coverage after being told by  Obama:

"So let me begin by saying this: I know that there are millions of Americans who are content with their health care coverage – they like their plan and they value their relationship with their doctor. And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. NO MATTER WHAT!"

But we all agree, Obama totally lied and knew millions would lose it.  So now libs are all happy that 3.3 million have signed up for a plan.  Am I missing something, don't we have less people covered than before the ACA?  So in liberal logic, having fewer people covered is actually better since....wow, I just don't get it.  It'll cost trillions and we actually have fewer people covered.  How much did the website cost again?  But on a more positive note, I get to pay more for my insurance now.  If I pay more, it means it's better, right?!
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Question by:bergertime
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by:Anthony Russo
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We admit he lied. Lets get passed that and your Caps lock key on it.

6 million lost their coverage and 3 million signed up. The 6 million that lost it were able to apparently afford coverage in the first place. The 3 million that signed up apparently were not able to have coverage, so we are 3 million in the hole.

The 6 million that lost it, apparently hating ACA probably still want health coverage. Do you think more than half went and got new coverage, and just didn't go through the ACA?

No more being in the hole, and now people are covered who weren't covered before.

(All my assumptions here are just assumptions and I have not done the research to verify my numbers or the situation. Feel free to do said research and prove me wrong.)
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by:bergertime
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lol, Anthony, you crack me up.  I copied and pasted Obama's lie from Obama.com.  No cap locks here.  But you did a great job on explaining the logic.  Pass something.  Hope it works. when it fails, convince yourself it did work.  Sing Kum-by-yah.  :)
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by:Anthony Russo
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>>Pass something.  Hope it works. when it fails, convince yourself it did work.

Pass something.  Hope it works. IF it fails, TALK POLITICS TO SAVE YOUR ASS BECAUSE YOU'RE A POLITICIAN.

(Fixed that line for you.)
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by:Dave Baldwin
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bergertime, your next assignment is to go back thru US history and thoroughly document all the times that politicians have lied and propose ways to 'fix' them.  That of course would be eternal job security because they can lie faster than you can document it.  So I guess it's a good thing that your life doesn't stop every time you've been lied to... wa wa wa
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by:bergertime
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AR, do I still get to sing?  

Dave?  I have already dealt with the fact Obama is a proven lier and had no problem lying to the American public at all, in fact when he does lie, it feels so good he has to keep doing it over and over and over....but my question was how do liberals apply logic to the fact less people are covered under the ACA and those who are covered are paying more and that by liberal standards is a good thing that should be celebrated. Oh and I have have, the only presidents since Nixon that have knowingly lied to the american people are....drum roll!!!!  Nixon, Clinton, and OBAMA!!!!  Take a play from AR....prove me wrong.  :)
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by:Dave Baldwin
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No need to prove you wrong since you are clearly on a 'whine' path which requires no logic whatsoever.
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by:bergertime
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I take that as you can't.
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by:Anthony Russo
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What exactly are you trying to be proven wrong about?I agree they lied. They all lie. Do you want to be proven wrong that the republicans didn't lie? I don't think you are that naive.
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by:bergertime
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AR, we agree, Obama is a lier.  Not sure Dave agrees, do you Dave?  You believe Obama is a lier?  And yes, I am that naive.  Do all husbands lie to their wives?   I think Carter tried to be honest and really at the end of the day, I think he succeeded.  Do I think he didn't tell us, or tell us stuff through rose tinted glasses?  Sure.  Do I believe he ever came out and intentionally lied to the American people to pass legislation?  No, I don't.
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by:Anthony Russo
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I think lying is part of a presidents job or nothing is going to get done. Probably a part of congress's job too but they go above and beyond. I'm sure Carter wasn't always honest either. There is just so much more accountability today with internet and 24 hour news than there was back then. Easy to get away with a lot more then.
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by:bergertime
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Wow AR, part of my decision on who to vote for is who do I feel is trust worthy, you're just the opposite, you select them based on who lies the best?  Your wife is a big dem....how would she react if some secret whitehouse tapes came to light that Bush says he knows Iraq doesn't have WMD but he wants to invade anyway for political points?  Nevermind, the question is in regards to all the articles in the media on how Obamacare is such a great thing.  At this point, I still have to say it's a total failure, maybe in the future it will get better.  I thought maybe I was missing something.
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by:Anthony Russo
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I don't vote on who lies the best. I vote on trust also, but not blind trust. The job doesn't allow perfection. Bush also knew more than we did. Maybe we went to war for oil, or maybe we saved a few billion lives. Only he and his aides know for sure. We don't, but I voted for him because I trusted him to make the best decisions more than Kerry or Gore would based on his policies and what I knew about him. I hope that is what he did, and what Obama did. I don't know but sometimes the world calls for things the constitution might not allow. It would be nice if the world didn't work that way, but I think it does.

Then again maybe they all are just power hungry and like to kill people. Then I voted wrong, or they all are and we had no choice. This idea that THIS GUY IS EVIL and doing things so wrong is preposterous to me. He is doing what he thinks is best for the country, just like Romney would have. They just have different ideas on what that is. Neither one is a 'bad guy'.
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by:bergertime
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I agree.

"sometimes the world calls for things the constitution might not allow"

Then you don't break it, you change it.  We are after all 'a nation of laws.'.  Or you decide the law doesn't apply to you.  Maybe it doesn't apply tot the president.
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Anthony Russo earned 50 total points
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>>Then you don't break it, you change it.  We are after all 'a nation of laws.'.  Or you decide the law doesn't apply to you.  Maybe it doesn't apply tot the president.

I'm sure the world will just wait while congress putzes around to change the constitution. They work so well together. Nice utopia you are imagining, but Id rather the law be broken and lives saved. If the President has to do so, then so be it. He gets the repercussions from congress, the supreme court, or the public afterwards, but first task though is to do what the country needs.
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by:tliotta
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Far more than 6 million "lost their health plans".

I was at my previous employer for 12 years with employer-provided plans. Every single year, old plans went away and new plans arrived. And every year, new plans were more expensive. That's the simple nature of health plans. Track your own employer-provided plans/rates over the past decade or so to see if changes happened naturally.

The ACA required no one to leave a plan that they liked. Nor did it require any plan provider to drop the availability of plans that they wanted to provide. But it could not force the continued business existence of plans that made no business sense. (Imagine Republican outrage had it tried to do that! "Price freezes!? Rely on free markets! Government infringement on businesses!")

I see no significant issue with "6 million lost their health plans". It seems to be a relatively normal readjustment part of the inevitable changes from something as sweeping as the ACA. It's not particularly clear how many of those would have "lost their health plans" even if the ACA hadn't been enacted, possibly more than 6 million since it seems like a very low number to me.

Tom
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