Obama promised to lower my health premiums...but, but but.

bergertime used Ask the Experts™
In a release from the excutive branch itself this past friday, here is what the white house now says about small businesses that employ less than 50 employees.

"This new premium rating requirement will impact the premiums paid by individuals and families working for small employers who offer health insurance. Specifically, we have estimated that the premium rates for roughly 11 million people will increase and about
6 million people are expected to experience a premium rate reduction due to sections 2701 through 2703 of the ACA."

Here is the report.  Question, is this good for the small businesses in the US?
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We've been through this a few million times.

The goal is to get more people covered who couldnt get covered before. Moistly because of pre-existing conditions or they are high risk. That is going to cost extra money. That money comes in raising the premiums of the people who already had insurance. No surprise here. That's the way insurance works, and always had. Including car insurance. The good drivers pay more for all the bad driver. Add more bad drivers and the good drivers premiums go up.

We established all this. The bar has just been moved is all. Nothing fundamental has changed. There are more high risk, so the low risk have to pay more to cover them.


AR, you are correct, but that was not my question, it was are these increases that Obama is now saying we will get, remember 2 years ago, we were all supposed to get $3500 in saving, but now that it's passed it's changed to higher rates, is this good for small businesses that have less than 50 employees to be paying out more?  Will this help or hinder growth of small businesses?
Less than $50 employees don't have anything to do with Obamacare. They have no direct effect.
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??  small businesses that have less than 50 employees , roughly 11 million people, will see their rates go up as a direct result of Obamacare, not to mention the cost to the employers, and this has no effect?  We're talking about middle class families here.  How can you be so callous to say they have no effect?
I thought you mean small businesses having to cover their employees. That is what I meant by no direct effect as they are exempt.

Are you talking about people just having less spending money because they are paying more for their health care? Of course there will be effect for all businesses in the economy if 11 million people are paying more for health insurance. Also millions more are suddenly paying for health insurance. Some will win and some will lose. Everything is connected so it all affects everything.


"Are you talking about people just having less spending money because they are paying more for their health care?"

No, I'm talking about how will effect the small businesses?  Do you think that increasing the rates small businesses and their employees have to pay will benefit or hurt the small business segment?  

"Some will win and some will lose"

I agree, losers will be hard working middle class families, small business owners with less than 50 employees.  Winners <> hard working middle class families and small business owners.
I still don't see how you think small business owners are getting increased rates. The law doesn't apply to businesses with less than 50 employees.

It says "will impact the premiums paid by individuals and families WORKING FOR small employers"

It does not affect the small business directly in any way.
Hard to say. Until the current law is in effect for maybe 5-10 years, we'll have no certain knowledge on the costs of health care.

A basic potential consequence might be a significant reduction in emergency-room care. Because that's known to be a very expensive means of providing medical services, a long-term reduction in it should reduce overall costs to all consumers. And if that's the actual consequence, then it's likely to have a good impact on small businesses.

And if it's not the case, then the impact on small businesses probably won't be much different from what would happen over the next 5-10 years if we had no comprehensive health care plan at all.



"Therefore, we are estimating that 65 percent of the small firms are expected to experience increases in their premium rates while the remaining 35 percent are anticipated to have rate reductions. The individuals and families that receive health insurance coverage from their small employer generally contribute a portion of the premium.  For this analysis, if the employer premium increases, it is assumed that the employee contribution will rise as well.  Similarly, if the employer premium is reduced, the employee contribution is assumed to decrease. "

AR.  Here is a part of the article,  you said:
It does not affect the small business directly in any way.

Straight from the Obama administration, the report states that 65% of small business (which is defined as less than 50)  will see a rate increase, a portion of that is passed to the employee, as stated above from the Obama report.  

Wow Tom...so increasing cost on small business and their employees is at best a great thing, at worst, not negative.  When can I expect to see a reduction in ER times.
bergertime, it helps if you include a source link when you quote something. But don't worry, I found it:

Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Leaves Out Key Facts To Claim Small Businesses Will Be Hurt By Obamacare | Blog | Media Matters for America : http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/03/12/pittsburgh-tribune-review-leaves-out-key-facts/198460

Nice way to be cherry-picked. It happens a lot so don't feel bad falling for it. The raises that might happen to small businesses are based on ones that are below average currently. So they will just move to the national average at worst. Plus with all the other contributing factors that were not included, the overall costs can go down.

The sky isn't falling. It may fall, or it may rise. The truth of the article is what I've been saying the entire time...we don't know.
Scott PletcherSenior DBA
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>> The goal is to get more people covered who couldnt get covered before. <<

No, not really.  That goal could have been met much more simply and cheaply.

The goal is to force a "minimum" level of coverage for everyone, thus throwing enough additional money at insurers and doctors that they buy into (literally) giving the govt complete control of health insurance and, ultimately, health care.  That then leads to govt control of activities and actions of people.

Because then the govt (supposedly) has the "reason" of reducing govt cost to control what you do.

The govt has already done this with work/retirement.  The govt forcibly extorts money out of you, squanders it, then controls the age at which you retire, how much extra you are taxed to work during retirement, etc., for similar ostensible "reasons", to "save the gov't money".  The fact that it's your money to begin with, that you could have gotten a vastly better return on your own investment, and that the govt has wasted your money not saved it, doesn't matter to them -- after all, in their mind they are "helping you" because they "care about you", since you're incapable of doing on your own, and that's all that matters to them.

The only real solution is to get the govt completely out of health care, including ending the tax deduction for employers.


So from the right, I get it's bad.  From the left I get it might be good and it might be bad, but it will take at least 2-3 different administrations before we know.  Hope in one hand and........Hey I got an idea, hand over all your personal banking account information to me and don't check your accounts for at least 7 years.  I promise blah blah blah....

Thanks for the correction..."bergertime, it helps if you include a source link when you quote something. But don't worry, I found it:" but I did post it in my question.  It is posted to the actual govt report.  Not some right or left leaning rag like media matters.  To the actual document so the reader can read it and draw their own conclusion about what it says, not have some third party spoon feed them what to believe.  I didn't cherry pick anything.  That is the whole paragraph.  I didn't take a line out of context like NBC does.

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