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DHCP not working (Default Gateway does not exist)

Posted on 2014-03-26
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Last Modified: 2014-04-11
Here's today's intriging problem to get your teeth into.

SBS 2011 Server installed afresh as of yesterday (predecessor's RAID card thrashed all the disks!)

IPs set up as:
Default Gateway 192.168.1.254
Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0
DNS 192.168.1.2
Server 192.168.1.2
Router 192.168.1.254

DNS forwards to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 fro the server, DHCP and NIC all set as above.

The Server (.2) can see the default Gateway (.254) and resolve externally.
Now here's the rub!

The workstations running DHCP can see ALL IPs in the internal range except the Default Gateway and therefore have no Internet access. ipconfig /all from any workstation reports all the numbers correctly???

If I change to Default Gateway/Router to .1 you have exactly the same problem.

The workaround has been to force the IP numbers for the network cards and then it behaves as if there is no problem. However this is a crude fix and doesn't solve the problem with wireless devices, like mobiles, that run in a DHCP word most of the time. There are also some other odd effects such as Outlook having to be run not in Cached mode as it doesn't work otherwise.

Any ideas? I don't! I have run "fing" and there don't appear to be duplicate IP numbers and the DHCP in the router is definitely turned off.

Many thanks - EH
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Question by:edhasted
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47 Comments
 
LVL 76

Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 39957101
Can the clients ping the Gateway IP Address?

What AV software is installed on the Clients / Server?

Have you run the Fix My Network Wizard on the SBS server and the Setup my Internet Address too?

Alan
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LVL 16
ID: 39957107
Have you run the SBS configuration wizards? Sometimes when you try to do a manual configuration on SBS there are some "hidden" settings that will cause issues.

SW
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39957113
Sorry, I should have made that clearer.

The Server CAN ping the Default Gateway: the Workstations CANNOT, although they can ping every other extant IP.

I have run Fix My Network and for the first time ever it didn't resolve the problem.
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LVL 16
ID: 39957116
To clarify one other statement you made, if you set the IP address on the workstation manually, it is able to ping the default gateway, or not?
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39957117
And yes have run the "Setup your Internet Address" from the 2011 Standard Console several times :-)
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39957123
With the IP forced on the Workstation it works. The problem is that if the IP comes locally it works, if it comes from the Server's DHCP it doesn't. Although they are reporting identical numbers.
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 39957127
Okay - what about Client / Server AV software?  Anything installed?

What Make / Model is the router / firewall?  Is it on the latest firmware version available?
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39957150
The AV is Vipre which I use all the time on SBS servers and never experienced these quirks before.

The Router is a DrayTek 2820 on the latest firmware as of 8 hours ago.
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LVL 16
ID: 39957155
Reading the original question I wasn't clear on this detail. If you allow the client machine to obtain an IP automatically, does it pull the default gateway of 192.168.1.254?

MO
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39957213
Yes, but it can't ping it. As I said if it uses DHCP it gets all the right numbers but it can't PING or use the Default Router!

I spent an hour on the phone to DrayTek and they analysed the router and everything was fine. Although they did point out the firmware needed updating but that made no difference.
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LVL 76

Accepted Solution

by:
Alan Hardisty earned 100 total points
ID: 39957304
Is the SBS server patched up to the eyeballs yet from Windows Update (not WSUS)?

Have you updated Exchange to SP3 Rollup 5 (not that Exchange should cause DHCP issues - but just asking!)?
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Assisted Solution

by:Michael Ortega (Internetwerx, Inc.)
Michael Ortega (Internetwerx, Inc.) earned 100 total points
ID: 39957361
Ok, so taking the same client machine you allow it to obtain and IP automatically from the SBS and it receives the correct host IP and subnet mask, but you can't ping the default gateway of 192.168.1.254?

You assign the client machine a static IP (presumably the same IP you received via DHCP?) and it can ping the gateway of 192.168.1.254?

Can you just verify that the mask that your client computer is receiving through DHCP is the correct mask? 255.255.255.0? Is there any chance the mask handed out by the SBS via DHCP is not correct in which case the default gateway of 192.168.1.254 is actually on a different network? for example: if your SBS hands out a mask of 255.255.255.128 and you got an IP of 192.168.1.53 then 192.168.1.254 (your gateway) would not even be on the same network. When you assign it statically, perhaps you're giving it a mask of 255.255.255.0 which explains why it works?

MO
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Expert Comment

by:Winsoup
ID: 39957371
Just to be sure, you have the Router Scope options set to the correct IP address in DHCP for every scope correct?
Are there any exclusions for the scope you are trying to use?
Are they always grabbing the same IP addresses with DHCP or have you tried with multiple DHCP IP addresses?  
Try excluding the first 100 or so IP addresses so it grabs a new IP through DHCP and test if that works.
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Expert Comment

by:Perarduaadastra
ID: 39957637
It sounds as though there might be a problem with the DHCP database. Are there any DHCP-related errors in the event logs?

If the DHCP database is damaged or corrupt then problems such as those you're experiencing could easily occur. If this is the cause it's obviously not serious enough to make the DHCP service fail, but is sufficient to cause Microsoft's well-known "unexpected results".

Another thought comes to mind - when you configured the Draytek during the network setup phase of the SBS install did you use UPnP, or did you configure it manually? Whichever method you used, re-run the Set up your Internet Address wizard using the other one. Personally, I don't ever use UPnP on routers because of the security risks associated with it; however, if that's method that turns out to work with your device then you may be stuck with it unless you change the hardware.
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Assisted Solution

by:Cliff Galiher
Cliff Galiher earned 300 total points
ID: 39957753
Why did you set a router scope option at all? That isn't normal SBS doesn't create one) and will cause issues if your DHCP clients are trying to create static routes based on that scope option. Remove it and have just the default gateway option, then release and renew a lease to test.
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39957938
Will run through these when on site in a few hours.
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39957954
Ah, one thing picking up on Alan's point. The software (SBS 2011) was installed via HP's Intelligent Provisioning system. HOWEVER whenever prompted to do so Windows Update says it is fully up to date. Normally I have around 1-2GB of downloads to fully patch it. And this is coming off early 2013 build HP disk so it MUST need updating.

How do I force this?

Off to bed.
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LVL 16
ID: 39958001
I'm not sure how updating the OS is at play here. You are getting your IP assignment via DHCP correctly, right? If you're getting at least a valid IP and Subnet Mask then you can rule the server out of the picture. Now it's just the client device and the network. Provided you are getting a valid IP and mask you should be able to ping any local network device (provided there is no firewall in place preventing it). Given the fact that you mentioned previously that you could enter a static IP on your client machine and ping away I can only conclude that your DHCP server (the SBS) is not configured to hand out the correct IP information.

Can you provide an IPCONFIG output on your client machine when it's set to obtain and IP automatically vs. an IPCONFIG output on your client when you assign the information statically?

MO
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LVL 76

Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 39958256
On Windows Update you will have a link (not very obvious) to get update from Microsoft (not WSUS).  It is roughly in the middle of the screen at the bottom of the paragraph of text.
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LVL 3

Expert Comment

by:Guillermin-go
ID: 39959372
What if you launch a wireshark capture on a workstation with a valid network configuration provided by the DHCP server while you try some pings to the default gateway? Then do the same with the same network properties configured as manual and look for differences on ICMP protocol

check the scope configuration, I would make a review on the enabled scope options.Maybe there is something there causing this issue.
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39960210
I'll try that when I'm in next on Tuesday. This is what I discovered today.

1. Turning the AV off made no difference.
2. One or two workstations can work on DHCP but most have to have the IPs forced???
3. IP numbers are being rolled out sequentially and correctly by the DHCP for what that is worth.
4. Also running ipconfig /flushdns makes no difference either.


Don't believe the subnet mask is the issue as this phenomenon applies identically if you switch the router from .1 to .254 and viceversa.

The server was patched and Exchange SP3 applied.

The DHCP is configured as follows:
Scope from .1 to .254
Exclusions on .1 to .99 and .100 .200 to .254

There are no other DHCP servers running and no other devices on .1 or .254.
The switches have no IP and are on open broadcast.

The new server replaces the old one that imploded with the same IP number.
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LVL 16
ID: 39960575
If you assign the client computers the same IP statically that it receives via DHCP does the problem persist?

MO
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39960811
To repeat the crux of this problem.

If the Workstation's IPs are received via DHCP the Default Gateway DOESN'T WORK (can't ping, no Internet access etc). If I assign them IT DOES.

There must be a fix :-)
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Expert Comment

by:Cliff Galiher
ID: 39960842
Did you try removing the router scope option as I suggested? And a full unedited ipconfig /all from a machine when it works and when it doesn't (preferably the same machine) would also be helpful as another expert suggested.
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39960853
Sorry - didn't read that properly. So you're saying remove the ROUTER setting in the DHCP or change the SCOPE to exclude the Router, e.g. from .2 to .254?

Will upload a set of ipconfigs over the w/e or Tuesday depending on when I get to the site next.

Very many thanks.
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Expert Comment

by:Cliff Galiher
ID: 39960858
Remove the scope option for router  altogether.
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39960868
So if the router is on 192.168.1.254 change the SCOPE to run from
192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.253?
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Assisted Solution

by:Cliff Galiher
Cliff Galiher earned 300 total points
ID: 39960881
No no. Don't change the scope. Remove the router option. Options are the additional bits, like the default gateway or the domain suffix, DHCP adds these pieces of information to lease reply.

Remove the one defining a router. Leave the one defining the gateway alone.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc958929.aspx
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39960888
So remove the "003 Router" setting?
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Expert Comment

by:Cliff Galiher
ID: 39960892
If you also have an option defining the default gateway, yes. Otherwise they are redundant and could be mangling the routing table, I'm not in front of an SBS machine at the moment to check what is usually default,
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Expert Comment

by:Perarduaadastra
ID: 39960927
Default is no options defined, at least on the SBS installation I'm in front of...
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LVL 16
ID: 39961523
Can you please provide a print out of what your client gets through DHCP? Can you also confirm that if you assign the client computer in question the same IP statically that it receives via DHCP that it pings the gateway just fine? You hadn't confirmed previously that you were assigning them the same IP that they received through DHCP.

MO
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39968982
IPCONFIG /ALL with the IPs forced in the NIC settings.
The default gateway works because it has been hard coded.
The next example with be them resolving from the DCHP and not working.
(apologies for the delay but had to be on site to get this info)



Windows IP Configuration

   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : RD-WS-1
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . : rowland.local
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Mixed
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : rowland.local

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Ethernet Connection I217-LM
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 2C-44-FD-18-3E-45
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::c1a8:3346:b5e4:3f3a%11(Preferred)
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.61(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 237782269
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-1A-6F-F7-7D-2C-44-FD-18-3E-45
   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.10
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter isatap.{B32C60C4-CF91-4F1B-9205-2E54AA34E750}:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
0
 

Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39968986
IPCONFIG /ALL with the IPs resolving from the DHCP and not working.
n.b. The Default Gateway is on .1 and is reported correctly.
I have not deleted the DCHP entries on the server yet to see if someone spots an issue in these configs.

Very many thanks.


Windows IP Configuration

   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : RD-WS-1
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . : rowland.local
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Mixed
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : rowland.local

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : rowland.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Ethernet Connection I217-LM
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 2C-44-FD-18-3E-45
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::c1a8:3346:b5e4:3f3a%11(Preferred)
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.107(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 01 April 2014 12:06:09
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 09 April 2014 12:06:09
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
   DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.10
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 237782269
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-1A-6F-F7-7D-2C-44-FD-18-3E-45
   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.10
                                       8.8.8.8
                                       8.8.4.4
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter isatap.rowland.local:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : rowland.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Pinging anything external such as 8.8.8.8 or news.bbc.co.uk draws a blank.
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Expert Comment

by:Cliff Galiher
ID: 39969023
Well. First off I can tell you that DNS is wrong. All you have to do is look at your static vs dynamic to see that. DHCP is handing out Google DNS in addition to the server. That can break AD every time.

Second, did you try pinging 8.8.8.8 to see if it works with hour static config? Don't assume it does. Many routers block all ICMP traffic so pings will fail, but TCP traffic works as expected. So ping on both configs to see if that is even a real symptom.

A more accurate test would be nslookup. Try doing an nslookup of bing.com on a static and DHCP configuration and post both results. Do this AFTER fixing DHCP so it isn't handing out additional DNS servers, or the test itself is erroneous.

And finally, if after all that, things still are broken, please post the results of a "route print" from each configuration. I'd like to see where windows thinks traffic should be getting routed.
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39969365
This is how the server is setup.

The DNS on the Server NIC points to itself (192.168.1.10 or 127.0.0.1)
The DNS has forwarders to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
All the DHCP has is the Router (003) pointing to 192.168.1.1.

Can you spell out what I need to change?
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Expert Comment

by:Cliff Galiher
ID: 39969401
None of the above. Somewhere in your DHCP options (server level or scope level) it is configured to had out additional DNS servers besides itself. That is simply wrong and the additional DNS scope entries (in DHCP) should be removed,
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39969513
You are indeed correct. I put those in out of desperation when some time after I started investigating this phenomenon.

They have been removed - DCHP and DNS on server restarted.
Test workstation restarted and still no joy.

ipconfig /all now reads


Windows IP Configuration

   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : RD-WS-1
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . : rowland.local
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Mixed
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : rowland.local

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : rowland.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Ethernet Connection I217-LM
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 2C-44-FD-18-3E-45
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::c1a8:3346:b5e4:3f3a%11(Preferred)
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.107(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 01 April 2014 15:59:59
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 09 April 2014 15:59:59
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
   DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.10
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 237782269
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-1A-6F-F7-7D-2C-44-FD-18-3E-45
   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.10
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter isatap.rowland.local:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : rowland.local
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
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Expert Comment

by:Cliff Galiher
ID: 39969681
You didn't follow up on any of my other advice. Did you ACTUALLY TEST pinging from a static configuration? Or use nslookup from both, or look at the routing tables? You've posted noke of those results. We can't keep providing advice in a vacuum.
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LVL 16
ID: 39969722
Looks like you are receiving .107 as the DHCP assigned IP Address. If you set your computers IP address statically with that same IP (.107) can you communicate with the gateway?

Note, that your original question said the default gateway is .254, but you are both statically assigning and receiving through DHCP .1 as the default gateway. You might want to update that.

MO
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39970122
Apologies for not posting the rest of the information requested but had to leave the site at a specified time. I am going back tomorrow afternoon and will upload the rest of the information.

From the original posting the DG is now on .1 and the Server on .10.
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Assisted Solution

by:Cliff Galiher
Cliff Galiher earned 300 total points
ID: 39970835
Well, in the meantime, nothing jumps out at me from your ipconfig anymore. So my thoughts in general are:

1) Test pinging from a static client. If it fails (and I suspect it might) but browsing still works, we illustrate at least that the "no ping" test you were doing on the dymanic client is not a worthwile test. As I explained earlier, ICMP traffic can be blocked/filtered and thus is not always a reliable test.

The whole idea of the first one is to find out if the dynamic and static configurations behave differently via ping or behave the same. That is a valid diagnostic step. If they behave differentl,y then we can focus on why ping is failing. If they behave the same (both fail) then we know that ping is not a reliable test and can move on.

2) Test DNS lookups. I'd use nslookup for this. There are several tests I'd do:
2.1) nslookup bing.com from a static client that works browsing. That is our baseline. nslookup should work since browsing works.
2.2) nslookup from a dynamic client.
2.3) nslookup *from* the server itself. See if DNS forwarding is failing by chance.
2.4) nslookup from the dynamic client again, but manually change the nslookup server to 8.8.8.8 first. That way it isn't using the internal server for DNS.
2.5) nslookup from the server itself, and manually change the nslookup server to 8.8.8.8 first. Same as above, we are testing to see if DNS lookups work and if the problem may lie in the DNS server service.

3) If nothing jumps out as broken here, then it is time to see if packets themselves are being treated differently. Again, I wonder if defining a default gateway *and* a router in DHCP is the culprit. Truthfully I've never seen this, but except for the option 003 mentioned, when you say you change "both" there has been some vagueness on what you are changing. In a normal setup, there would only be one thing to change (the DHCP option, and only one of those) and so there'd be no issue.

But to see if the static vs dynamic clients are routing packets differently, the route print command would be helpful. One each from a static client (that has been verified that browsing works, as with all the steps above as well), and one from the same client when flipped to dynamic and verified that this breaks browsing.

With all of the output from those tests (and now you have a list so you can pick it up immediately and perform them all first thing) we'll have *a lot* more diagnostic information to make informed suggestions on addressing and ultimately fixing the problem.

I know there is a lot written above, but each of these tests are 30 seconds, so gathering the output from each test and saving them to a text file (or multiple text files) and uploading it would be only a few minutes. Hopefully we can then come up with a resolution or at least finer pinpointed troubleshooting steps relatively quickly.
-Cliff
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Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39972956
I have good but perverse news.

The nslookups behaved as I would have expected, resolved under static but not under dynamic.

What I did do was swap out the DrayTek 2820 router with a 2860 as I was suspicious, as everything other major hardware component had been replaced, and guess what it worked.

DrayTek had remotely examined the 2820 settings long before I resorted to this posting on Experts Exchange and signed off all the 2820 settings as correct.

I basically mimicked them on the 2860 and it worked first time. All the misbehaving workstations connected off Dynamic IPs with the Default Gateway passing through just like that, even without rebooting.

I am on the site next Tuesday and will revisit the rogue router to see if any of the more obscure settings might hint as to the issue as I'd like to find out rather than just say it's working now and forget about it. Everyone has put so much effort into this I'd like to be able to learn from it.

I will close the case then.

If anyone has any brainwaves in the light of this please let me know.

With very best wishes and thanks to everyone who has taken the time to investigate.

EH
0
 

Author Closing Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39993495
Very many thanks for the very detailed help everyone gave, sincerely appreciated.
0
 
LVL 76

Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 39993507
Random - but glad the problem is resolved and thanks for posting what fixed it.
0
 

Author Comment

by:edhasted
ID: 39993513
I don't like the combination of IT and random but that's how this one looks as I was unable to winkle out the culprit.
0
 
LVL 76

Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 39993535
Me neither, but I'm gradually getting used to it!!
0

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