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compare Sybase and MSSQL server

Posted on 2014-04-16
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Dear all,

right now playing around the sybase 15.7 ASE and I am a MS SQL 2005-2014 DBA, I can see that during the demo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yvVH5V-JGM, the MS SqL really copy the sybase as we all know when MS release SQL 6.5, SQL 7.0 remove all the sybase code.

But a lot of system call like select @@version still work for Sybase.

anyone can let me know what is the diff bettwen sybsae and MS SQL?

1) what is the HA service of sybase.
2) What is the DR service of sybase.
3) the managment tools of sybase.
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Question by:marrowyung
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by:Anthony Perkins
Anthony Perkins earned 30 total points
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the MS SqL really copy the sybase as we all know when MS release SQL 6.5
Nope.  It happened previously with v. 4.2 not 6.5 which was released 4 years later.  And no they did not "copy" the Sybase code it was a joint development between Sybase, Ashton-Tate and Microsoft.
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by:marrowyung
ID: 40005862
"the MS SqL really copy the sybase as we all know when MS release SQL 6.5"

ok, I think we are talking in diff directon. yes, I mean it is up to 6.5. SQL 7.0 complete wrap out all sybase code.

"And no they did not "copy" the Sybase code it was a joint development between Sybase, Ashton-Tate and Microsoft. "

why Asjtpm-Tate here? you mean they join together to develope SQL server?

ok, my word should be MS buy Sybase on that product.
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by:marrowyung
ID: 40005863
please answer the key question:


1) what is the HA service of sybase.
2) What is the DR service of sybase.
3) the managment tools of sybase.
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by:Ryan McCauley
Ryan McCauley earned 70 total points
ID: 40006715
It looks like enterprise HA and DR are provided via a product they call "Adaptive Server Enterprise", which I suspect is pricey (I can't find a price online, which is usually a bad sign). That is in comparison to MSSQL, which offers two-node failover clustering in Standard edition.

Alternatively, you can use replication to set up a warm standby - here are some options:

http://www.sybase.com/content/1015782/4267RepServerwpaperv5.pdf

I just did some quick searching - there's not a ready-made feature comparison that I can find between the two platforms, but there's plenty of material available online if you're up for reading a bit of it. Basically, it appears Sybase supports much of the same HA/DR that MSSQL supports (and that I imagine any modern RDBMS also supports), but I don't think you're going to beat MSSQL for ease of use and flexibility for the price (disclaimer - I'm partial to MSSQL, but my limited experience with other RDBMS systems has tended to reinforce my partiality).
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by:marrowyung
ID: 40006774
"It looks like enterprise HA and DR are provided via a product they call "Adaptive Server Enterprise", :

this only mean the full name of the Sybase product. that's why it called ASE enterprise suite !

you can try download it from the link http://www.sybase.com/ase_1500devel.

"Alternatively, you can use replication to set up a warm standby - here are some options: "

this is the HA option that allow the node to failover ?

"Basically, it appears Sybase supports much of the same HA/DR that MSSQL supports (and that I imagine any modern RDBMS also supports), but I don't think you're going to beat MSSQL for ease of use and flexibility for the price "

as MS SQL is built with a team from Sybase, the T-SQL is nearly the same.

but are you using Sybase and MS SQL in the same company ?
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alpmoon earned 400 total points
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You are discussing a lot of broad topics here. MS SQLServer 4.2 has been developed by Sybase and actually it was Windows version of Sybase 4.2. Then MS has bought source code and started to develop it in its own way.

At the moment Sybase mostly targets high end customers like Wall Street brokerage houses, banks, big government agencies etc. So ASE includes variety of options for HA and DR. The whole architecture is more complicated than MS I guess. Replication server is only part of that architecture. You can either buy ASE HA option or use a third party solution like Veritas, but replication server provides data in synch.
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by:Anthony Perkins
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why Asjtpm-Tate here?
What do you mean?  Are you not familiar with Ashton-Tate?

you mean they join together to develope SQL server?
I believe I was quite clear:  But here it goes again in case it got lost in translation:
SQL Server 1.0 for OS/2 was a joint effort of Microsoft, Sybase and Ashton-Tate in 1989.  SQL Server 6.5 was released in 1996.
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by:marrowyung
ID: 40008298
"MS SQLServer 4.2 has been developed by Sybase and actually it was Windows version of Sybase 4.2. Then MS has bought source code and started to develop it in its own way.
"

this is what I mean before. NOT COPY ..

"SQL Server 1.0 for OS/2 was a joint effort of Microsoft, Sybase and Ashton-Tate in 1989. "

can see why they join together to built one and later on:

"MS SQLServer 4.2 has been developed by Sybase and actually it was Windows version of Sybase 4.2. Then MS has bought source code and started to develop it in its own way.
"

why not keep joining together and keep working on this?

"At the moment Sybase mostly targets high end customers like Wall Street brokerage houses, banks, big government agencies etc. So ASE includes variety of options for HA and DR. "

and I watch the youtube, it seems it only has the replication component for both HA and DR, right?


"You can either buy ASE HA option or use a third party solution like Veritas, but replication server provides data in synch"

that product has an old history and we should buy other product for that and it should keep working, right?

just like MS SQL, one package and then do everything.
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by:alpmoon
ID: 40008828
I have never heard of SQL Server 1.0 as a product. It might be a project doomed soon because Sybase has not released SQL Server on Windows or OS/2 before version 4.2. Earlier versions were only released on Solaris and other UNIX platforms. As much as I know 4.2 was the first version released on OS/2, Netware and Windows.

Actually if we are talking about Windows platform I think third party options may not be available at all. If it is the case you should talk to a Sybase representative to see the options. You can have Sybase replication server without HA option and start your using your replicate copy with your in house scripts. They are all separate products and options. Sybase products are much more flexible than MS products. You can use Sybase replication server to replicate MS SQL server or Oracle data too.
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by:marrowyung
ID: 40010041
"Sybase products are much more flexible than MS products."

in terms of what ?

"use Sybase replication server to replicate MS SQL server or Oracle data too. "?

anything  else?

"If it is the case you should talk to a Sybase representative to see the options"

replication server for HA and DR ?
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by:alpmoon
ID: 40010344
1. In terms of working on different platforms and integration with other products from variety of vendors and third party solutions.

2. Almost all databases which widely known, the list is long. It has been developed as Omniserver first. I think current name is EnterpriseConnect.

3. Sybase products have been evolving all the time. I can try to explain which product can be used in what ways, but I am sure that my knowledge is not current and I will miss a lot of points if I don't check a lot of details. That was the reason I suggested to talk to a Sybase representative. You can explain your needs, requirements and constraints to them, they would explain what options you can consider, disadvantages and advantages of each products etc.
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by:marrowyung
ID: 40010970
"2. Almost all databases which widely known, the list is long. It has been developed as Omniserver first. I think current name is EnterpriseConnect.
"

Thanks, but what I mean is other than the replication server, what else is good ?

my question in the post is :

1) what is the HA service of sybase.
2) What is the DR service of sybase.
3) the management tools of sybase.

so I need to find out why Investment bank or bank use Sybase with MSSQL, MS SQL basically can do everything already, why need Sybase? must be a reason, right?

 thanks.
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by:alpmoon
ID: 40011390
There are variety reasons for that:

1. MS SQL Server locks companies to one platform, Windows. Big companies don't like it, they prefer products portable across platforms (UNIX, Linux etc.)

2. They prefer products that could be integrated with other products from other vendors easily.

3. Sybase has always been committed to demands from Wall street companies and other finance companies. For example Sybase has developed in memory database first when it has been requested by Wall street companies. MS has a divided focus between individual users and big companies.

4. I think Sybase also outperform others in mission critical applications

5. Database administration cost is another factor. I think Sybase ASE still requires less DBA effort comparing with other databases for many companies
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by:marrowyung
ID: 40012020
"1. MS SQL Server locks companies to one platform, Windows. Big companies don't like it, they prefer products portable across platforms (UNIX, Linux etc.)"

excellent !

"r example Sybase has developed in memory database first when it has been requested by Wall street companies."

I like this !! when I installed the development platform for my testing, I found a lot of thing similar to MS SQL in terms of T-SQL command like select @@version; go;

but when the in memory thing appear in Sybase ? then which other DB do it ? DB2 or MS SQL?  I think Oracle is the last one as since SQL 2012, the in memory thing exist already !

"4. I think Sybase also outperform others in mission critical applications"

should it be really depends ? if I touch the MS SQL and configure it myself, I am sure it can win Oracle without moving all thing to memory !

if move all thing to memory, all DB will start liking each other. then we might only consider the price issue!!

" Database administration cost is another factor. I think Sybase ASE still requires less DBA effort comparing with other databases for many companies "

you mean it self turned?
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by:marrowyung
ID: 40012027
"Sybase has always been committed to demands from Wall street companies and other finance companies"

Since what year and what version is it ?
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by:Anthony Perkins
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but when the in memory thing appear in Sybase ? then which other DB do it ? DB2 or MS SQL?
I am not sure what you are asking here, but SQL Server has a In-Memory OLTP.
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by:alpmoon
ID: 40012689
I think all others have in memory option now, but I meant Sybase was the first implementing this feature becuase the demand came from Wall street companies. I think Sybase has released it in 2009. Sybase has been committed to demands from Wall street companies and other finance companies from the beginning, in 1980's. That was the reason Sybase became number one RDMS provider in Wall street during early 1990's even though being number 4 in overall RDBMS market.

Performance is measured based on number of transactions achieved in minute (or a certain time unit) and also cost of that many transactions. It is also assumed that environment is professionally tuned to achieve the best performance.

DBA cost cover a lot of cost components including monitoring, performance tuning, database dump and load, security settings etc. It is not just about self-tuning, maybe more about how much time it requires in terms of DBA time. I remember cases Oracle DBA's has been spending maybe two times more time than our time for backup scripts or business continuity exercises etc. There might be less difference in these days though.
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by:marrowyung
ID: 40015130
tks.
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