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why win7 still an option when win8 is here

Posted on 2014-04-26
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if someone is ready to get another PC, i see Win7 option is given also... after win8 is here, is there any real reason why one should choose win7?
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Question by:25112
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by:Bob Bender
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Win8 seems to be more touch screen oriented.  

Win 7 is MORE stable and you dont lose the cute little START button on the lower left of you desktop.

Some people are not ready for the future.  If you feel you are, the choice is yours.
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by:Gareth Gudger
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Its not uncommon for vendors such as HP and Dell to have downgrade options. Windows XP was offered as a downgrade option for a very long time after Windows 7 was released (a couple of years if memory serves).
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by:Gareth Gudger
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@frbcoindude - The Start button is still in Windows 8.1. Update 1 for Windows 8.1 added a ton of mouse and keyboard functionality back.
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by:Bob Bender
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My experience,


the "START button in 8.1, is just a way to get back to the Tiles START screen,  NOT the Win7 version.
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by:Gareth Gudger
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It is faster to find things on the Windows 8.1 Start Menu. Just hit the Windows key on the keyboard and type "Word" for example. Faster than hunting and pecking with a mouse. Although you still can do that. The best way to think of the Start Menu in Windows 8.1, is that it is just a full screen start menu. Although the next update to Windows 8,1 seems to indicate a more classic Start menu will be an option again.
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by:Bob Bender
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Maybe for you, I am an old dog....

easier to find?   I have 600-700 tiles on my START menu screen.
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by:Gareth Gudger
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That sounds like my desktop (got about 6 squares left with no icons!).

Yea if you tap the Windows key and just starting typing the name of the app it is much quicker. I didn't like it at first but it has really grown on me.
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by:25112
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so you have to get used to win8, i am seeing from what you are saying.. like almost like using a smart phone for the first time?
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by:Bing CISM / CISSP
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basically, for me, if the computer has a touch screen then go Windows 8, otherwise go Windows 7.

what's the point to use a mouse do gesture things?
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by:nobus
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just as a note : recently a friend 's pc went bad.
i installed a windows7 on the new one - and he refused it -he wanted XP !
so - it is really up to a persons preferences if he likes windows 7 or 8
you can't discuss flavours and colors -  and we may add OS'es as well   :--))
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by:25112
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thanks for the additional perspective..

but if the user just wanted to be practical and pragmatic, then this question arises:

will win7 retire first, before win8, and in that light, win8 is better investment?
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by:Dan Craciun
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Win 7 will be supported until January 14, 2020. So unless you intend to keep the desktop for more than 6 years, then it does not really matter.

Side note: pressing WIN and then typing to get a list of programs is available since Vista, if memory serves. It definitely works on Windows 7, just that instead on showing an ugly full screen it simply opened the Start button.

HTH,
Dan
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by:25112
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thanks for confirming 2020.

other than user interface, is there any BIG difference to using win8 over 7?
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by:Dan Craciun
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Define BIG.
For the average Joe, the interface is the biggest difference. But install Classic Shell and that goes away.
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by:25112
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thanks.

performance wise, does win8 demand more memory resources than win7? (win7 did over xp). how abt cpu?
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by:Dan Craciun
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From my experience, they're about the same. If a computer runs Windows 7 well, it will run Windows 8 well... if you can find the drivers.

Old computers might not have Win 8 drivers (main culprits are scanners IME), new computers might not have Win 7 drivers (most new consumer laptops don't have Win 7 drivers).
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by:rindi
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Companies usually don't use the newest OS, but rather the one that has undergone extensive testing and has been approved. This process usually takes lots of time. Also, there is quite a lot of software that will run on Windows 7, but won't on Windows 8. Many Companies recently only migrated to Windows 7, so why all the work again just to go for something as imperfect as Windows 8.x? Also, if you look at history, Vista was ignored by many companies for a good reason.

You'll also see the the upgrade rights from Windows 8 to Windows 7 are only available for the "pro" (or above) version of Windows 8, not the standard version that is meant for the home user. The pro and above versions have always been targeted towards companies.
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by:garycase
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A couple of thoughts ...

First, the most basic reason Windows 7 is still offered as an option for many systems is very simple:  DEMAND

People want it --- they don't like the GUI changes in Windows 8, and 8.1 hasn't made that much different.    There's a reason programs like Start8 have been wildly popular additions to Windows 8 systems ... they effectively give you back your Windows 7 GUI.

By the way, r.e. the comment above about how convenient Windows 8 is because you can hit the Windows key and then type the name of the program you're looking for => you've been able to do that for YEARS on earlier versions of Windows ... it's just not been a popular way to do it because the Start menu made it simple to do via mouse-driven menus.    Windows 8 is very touch-friendly, but not as mouse-friendly with regards to launching programs, so you're back to using the keyboard.   But this works just as well with Windows 7 if you like that approach.

Note that Windows 8 has actually removed a few things that were in Windows 7 => Media Center is now a paid add-on; and Media Player cannot play DVDs unless you add a codec to do CSS decoding.

Basically, Windows 8 tries to be an OS for all devices from phones to PC's ... and it works well for phones, tablets, and convertible laptops.     But if you're going to use a keyboard and mouse, and have a vertically oriented display, the Windows 7 GUI is, for most folks, a preferable way to work.    You can always go with Windows 8, and then install Start8 to get back to your 7-like desktop mode of work ... but many simply prefer to run Windows 7.

I've had a LOT of folks call me up in the past year or so and ask if I could wipe Windows 8 from their new machine and install Windows 7.    I haven't had a single person ask for an upgrade to '8.    By the way, when folks ask for an '8 machine to be wiped and reloaded with '7, my first suggestion is always that they spend $5 for Start8 and see if that resolves their frustrations before they buy a Windows 7 license.   MOST folks end up keeping '8 with that utility.
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by:rindi
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"From my experience, they're about the same. If a computer runs Windows 7 well, it will run Windows 8 well..."

That isn't necessarily true. Windows 7 will run well on older hardware as well as on newer hardware, while Windows 8.x will only run at all on newer hardware. So Windows 7 has a much bigger base on which it will run on. Windows 8 requires a CPU that supports PAE, NX, and SSE2. Pentium IV CPU's for example generally don't include those options and so Windows 8 won't even install on such PC's, while Windows 7 runs perfectly fine on them. You need at least a core generation CPU for Windows 8, if you additionally need the Hyper-V function of Windows 8 (really the only reason one would actually want Windows 8 for), then you additionally need SLAT as a CPU function, and that has only been introduced in the even newer i3/i5/i7 type CPU's.
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by:nobus
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there iqs also another side to be loked at : 32 bit, and 64
most drivers and applications for older devices were 32 bit ones
that  accounts for many of them not being supported on 64 bit
and most new pc 's are sold with 64 bit !
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by:John Hurst
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I am looking (not quickly) for a Windows 8.1 desktop and Windows 8.1 laptop from Lenovo. All the ones I have looked at come with either Windows 8 or Windows 7. The main reason was provided above: Businesses have not yet upgraded to Windows 8 because they have just moved to Windows 7 (off of XP).

I am working on a ThinkPad X230 with Windows 8.1.1 and Office 2013. I have a ThinkCenter Windows 7 desktop with Office 2010.

The Windows 8.1.1 machine is stable and reliable just as the Windows 7 machine.

I run Windows 8.1.1 in Desktop Mode only (never ever Metro) and use only Windows 8 tools to do this (no add on software of any kind).

My Windows 8.1.1 machine is essentially indistinguishable from the Windows 7 machine (same desktop and icons in the same places). The Windows 7 start menu is on the left and the Windows 8 start menu is on the right side of the desktop.

After a year of use of Windows 8 and after solving all the problems Lenovo and Microsoft made for us, Windows 8 is working well, it is fast and there is no reason to go backward at this point.
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by:rindi
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But why use an OS that either forces you to first do a lot of tweaking and learning before you can use it normally, or requires you to search for everything using the keyboard and typing? That is just as if you were still using DOS and had no GUI, and you should know what you need to type into the search box (also like in the old days of DOS). Besides, as has already been mentioned, you are able to do that in Windows 7 too if you prefer using the keyboard.

A vanilla Windows 7 on a standard PC is usable right away, out of the box, and doesn't require any additional learning and tweaking, and it runs just as well as Windows 8.x. When I compare an installation of Windows 7 and Windows 8.x on identical hardware, I can't see any difference in the performance (at least not any that would be noticeable) between the two. Although Windows 8.x appears to boot into the desktop slightly faster, you'll notice that the disk is still heavily active, and the PC sluggish for a while, as it is still loading up, while with Windows 7, once the desktop is there, it reacts quickly and is ready to use. So there really is no or not much difference in the actual bootup time either.
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by:web_tracker
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at the university where I work we refuse to support windows 8, we install windows 7 image on all our machines.  There is too many issues having to get our clients to learn a totally new operating system. It was bad enough trying to wean our clients off of xp when we first introduced windows 7.  There is too many changes in the windows 8 interface to get our clients used to on a windows 8 computer, the interface was designed with a touch screen in mind. Many users do not like the tile interface of windows 8. It was a major shift from windows 7 to windows 8. People could get used to it and start to like it but, it was not originally designed for a keyboard mouse usage in a business type of environment such as the professors I support at the university.
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by:David Johnson, CD, MVP
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People don't like change.  Windows 8 does use less resources than windows 7 and windows 8.1 and windows 8.1 Update 1 continue that trend as Microsoft tweaks the nt codebase.  People balked at Windows XP as it wouldn't support their legacy applications or hardware and they thought it was gaudy and wanted it to look more like Windows 98, People going from windows 3.1 to windows 95 wanted progman back (again legacy apps/hardware issues)
Tablets are the future and we are going back to client/server applications as people move to the cloud. It is in the foreseeable future that if one wants they could hook up their tablet to a large monitor and keyboard and use that as their "computer".  PC sales have shown a steadily decline in the last few years. Many people believe that an intel 920 cpu is all that they need (i3/i5 vs the latest haswell i7's).  Windows 3 was not prime-time ready when it was introduced as the hardware manufacturers had to catch up and video card manufacturers had to innovate.  Personally I resisted Windows and stayed with dos and desqview as long as possible.
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by:web_tracker
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I do not see major businesses moving toward a tablets, people love their large screens so they can view as much data as possible on one screen. I have seen a movement in the university where I work many users are moving from a 22 inch to a 27 inch monitor. Half of the users use dual monitors, so they can cut and past data from one screen to another, or so they can view their email on one screen and dictate a letter on another screen base on what they are reading on the first screen.  Tablets may be handy for users who do not stay in one place like doctors, who visit their patients in a hospital or in the doctors office. But the majority of the workers I work with will never be using a tablet, it is impractical. I do not see any major shift to tablets in the next 10 years in the business sector, especially for users who need to view x-rays on large screens, or users who are viewing spreadsheets where they need to see as much data on the screen as possible. Tablets just will not cut it for these workers.

As well as banks and financial institutions will not move toward a tablet to do banking for their customers.... it is not secure enough, I could never imagine that a banking institution using tablets to connect via wireless net work to do banking for their customers.  Stores as well will always use a pc based pos system not a tablet to do customer transactions, I can never see that tablets will hit the POS market in the next ten to twenty years.

Tablets maybe the next thing instead of the computer in the consumer market but not in the business market.
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by:Gareth Gudger
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I see desktops definitely going away. The company I work for has around 100 employees. Every employee has a laptop. I don't think we have a single desktop in the company. I have been running Windows 8.1 for about 4 months now. I have not looked back. I see this trend across other businesses I support as well. In fact one business is ditching their iPads in favor of Surface 2 Pros because they more closely meet there business needs.

David Johnson brings up a good point. With every new OS, there is always this griping. I was one of the users in Windows 3.11 that hated Windows 95 originally. I wanted my File Manager back. I hated Windows Explorer. But then I started to slowly realize that over time I loved each new addition of Windows.

But yes, there was also lots of griping when XP first came out from many 98 users. Especially with the lack of driver and software support.

The driver and software support when 7 and 8.1 were released have been amazing compared to the 98 to XP days.

With regard to banks, they have always moved slowly. Heck I was in my mortgage company last month and they were plugging away my social security number into Internet Explorer 8 on their XP machine.... gosh that felt good.

But at the same token 20 years ago who would have thought banks would have ever been off dumb terminals, Twinax, or green bar printers. At least most of them have made it to Thin Clients running Windows Embedded and Laser Printers.
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by:John Hurst
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I still see lots of desktop computers. But working laptops (keyboard, screen, mouse, no metro, no toys) are definitely not going away. I have a colleague in a college and people with tablets are carrying around keyboards for them.

No one knows for sure, but my guess is that I will be dead of old age before working laptops disappear.
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by:web_tracker
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Yeah I don't see desktops disappearing either, I would be dead in my grave before then, especially in my place where I work where the tablet would never display enough information, since the price of large lcd screens have dropped tremendously the doctors are at the university where I work are demanding larger monitors so the can view more detailed EKGs, and xrays. Their physicians assistants are demanding to work with two 22 in monitors so they can get their work done. One monitor for their dictation and another window for their healthcare application where they scan documents directly into the patient's chart. This could never be done using a small tablet as people would need magnifying glasses to see what they are doing.  It is foolish to think that people could do this off of a tablet. Especially since the size of the monitors are increasing tremendously every couple years. The screens that my clients are getting larger not smaller as the price of technology is decreasing. A 27" lcd monitor can be purchased around $300 and that is in Canada.... This is why the doctors are ordering the larger monitors. I do see more tablets in the work place but they will never replace the desktop or the laptop any time soon, especially when the doctor needs to see as much detail as possible, they need to see as much information on one screen, without having to scroll around to see more of a picture.  I work for the faculty of medicine and currently support over 3000 desktops and about 50 laptops, and maybe a few tablets/ipads. Although laptops are a starting to become more popular, the security risk is high due to healthcare information on laptops that can easily be stolen and the healthcare information on these laptops are compromised. Of course laptops can easily be connected to dual monitors, or large lcds that are 27" or larger....     I kind of agree with John that I probably would be dead of old age before laptops disappear.  It is too cumbersome for a fulltime business employee to spend eight hours a day playing on a tablet to get their work done. I guess the only way I could see it if the tablet was able to project an image wirelessly to a 27 inch screen and also to project a keyboard  large enough for a user to type on a virtual keyboard that is projected from the tablet. But for that to happen is quite a few years away.
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by:nobus
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the discussion is about win 7 or 8, not desktops and laptops...
and i guess everybody has it's own ideas about that
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by:garycase
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Yes, the discussion has digressed well off topic :-)

The question was "... is there any real reason why one should choose win7? " ==>  I think that was reasonably well addressed early in the thread.    Of course there are "real" reasons ... but only the buyer can decide if they apply to the specific case.   My view, as I noted above, is that if you're using a keyboard/mouse/monitor setup, most folks would prefer Windows 7.    If you're using a tablet (e.g. Surface Pro or equivalent), then Windows 8 is clearly the way to go.     For laptops, if they're touchscreen ... and especially if they're convertible, so they can work like tablets ... then Windows 8 is probably the best choice.

You basically won't go wrong choosing Windows 8; but you may end up adding a couple of utilities (notably Start8) to make the GUI more like '7
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by:rindi
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I don't think the discussion got "off topic". It is all more or less related or leads to the next point, and I think a Question like this is bound to also go to what hardware is better for Windows 8.x, and what hardware is more suited for Windows 7.
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by:John Hurst
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I think Windows 8 is the next operating system and if you set it up properly (not self-evident, but not hard either), Windows 8.1 Pro works nicely on a Desktop and on a Laptop for business use.
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Remember the question here:  "... is there any real reason why one should choose win7?"

The question isn't "which is better?" -- it's whether or not there are valid reasons to go with Windows 7.    And clearly there are ... if all your other PCs are '7;  if you have programs you use that won't work in '8;  or if you're just not comfortable with the new GUI.    As I noted in my first post, the reason it's still offered is simple:  DEMAND.   There are still plenty of customers who want '7 instead of '8.

I agree, however, that Windows 8 (and especially 8.1 w/Update 1) is a bit more palatable for those who prefer working on the desktop rather than in the "modern" Start screen (e.g. Metro).     Windows 8 is not that hard to get used to ... and indeed once set up nicely works very much like earlier versions if you're desktop-centric.    As an example, I loaded v8.1 on my wife's system a few months ago so she could see if she liked it over '7 -- and although she had some learning pains for a week or so, when I offered to reload it with '7 she said not to ... and now is very comfortable with '8.    On the other hand, my very-nicely configured system has '7 on it; and although I bought a license for '8 (actually bought several last year when Microsoft was offering '8 Pro for $40)  I have not bothered to upgrade it ... and likely won't.    I will, however, load '8 on my next system [and I also have a copy loaded in a VM so I can boot to '8 if I'm helping someone with an 8-related issue).
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by:25112
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brilliant perspectives, experts. thanks a lot!
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