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wyse networking

Posted on 2014-07-17
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Last Modified: 2014-07-21
someone I work with wants to put a bunch of wyse "dumb terminals" at one of our remote locations. I think they are Wyse C10LE.
I think it is not a good idea because the remote location has a very SLOW connection to our servers. I don't know much about wyse, but I thought that they are very network dependent, so if you have slow network I'm assuming the users will be waiting for everything.
Would this be a correct assumption?
I would just like to know if my concept is correct, I don't think we can get different model's of Wyse devices, and I don't think we can change servers. So I'm not really looking to solve a problem, but mostly to understand the concept behind the Wyse device and if my theory is correct.
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Question by:JeffBeall
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by:web_tracker
web_tracker earned 668 total points
ID: 40203601
I truly believe you are on the right track, if you have a slow connection to the servers, it is going to be worse when your users are using a thin client. Your customers are going to be very unhappy about the performance. I currently work in a university environment with about 150 thin client users and about 3000 pc or laptop users. Most of the users that have thin client hate them due to slow connections.
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by:Mohammed Khawaja
ID: 40203667
WYSE makes "dumb" terminals which could be used to access RDP and Citrix session where both works extremely well in low bandwidth environments.  Also note that the beauty of these units is that they can be used as zero administration off-the-shelf solution where if one is defective, the user can replace it without needing IT assistance (mining companies use them as they keep spares at different locations on sites including underground and no IT intervention required when replacing defective ones).
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by:masnrock
masnrock earned 664 total points
ID: 40204371
Mixed bag. Depends on your requirements and goals. Thin clients are not bandwidth intensive devices, which can be a major upside over slow connections. The downside would be if the connection to the server were to go out entirely. Another big question is whether all of your applications would work with Terminal Services and/or Citrix. I have been in the IT group at an organization that tried to convert everyone to Citrix and thin clients. It was a miserable failure and I wrote a scathing criticism including the reasons: poor planning and a lack of input from users.

In your employer's case, I would be asking why the connection is so slow, along with what it would require to address the issue. Could be something that is an easy fix. But let that research determine the next step.
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by:JeffBeall
ID: 40204435
Just to make sure that I have the whole bandwidth concept right. For example, if the connection is slow for about 15 users, and you add 10 users, I thought the reasult would be that everybody slows down even more.
Also, even though a Wyse device might have low bandwidth requirements, wouldn't it be that they are constantly using bandwidth? I say this because I thought everything is done on the Wyse server. So wouldn't even moving the mouse take some bandwidth? If that is correct, wouldn't there be a cumulative effect on the bandwidth when using Wyse devices?
For a basic computer, I would imagine that there would be times when it wouldn't use any bandwidth because most of the processing can be done locally.
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by:masnrock
ID: 40204471
Alright, your original statement was not clear from that standpoint. Is the plan to replace everything with thin clients or to add thin clients to the existing items? Those are two different issues. I assume that the appropriate people are taking this into account.

What is your role in this whole matter?
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by:JeffBeall
ID: 40204496
they would like to replace just some of the existing computers. I think the ration would be about 30 pc's and 15 Wyse devices
I was working at this location, upgrading existing pc's to windows 7. There is a excel document with the list of pc's we will keep and the pc's that will be replaced.
I don't think the person that is planning on replacing the pc's with Wyse devices, knows a whole lot about the Wyse devices.
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by:masnrock
ID: 40204517
Yes, those devices connect to a server, but all the work is done on the server. Mainly keystrokes and mouse movements are what would be going back and forth with the thin clients, which are very low bandwidth. So the sum of what the thin clients would use could be far lower than what the current devices uses.
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by:JeffBeall
ID: 40204675
what about drawing the screen? wouldn't it have to send that as well?
I guess I question how well the Wyse devices work on a slow network because of my experience using them.
At the main office, the people that use them complain that they are slow, and we have a fast network. When I work on one, it does seem to take awhile for the session to start.
Our Wyse devises connect to a citrix server, so when you lauch an application it sets up a citrix environment, once the environment is established it is faster, however, it doesn't seem faster than a computer running the same application. In fact, at times it seems slower even when the session is established.
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by:masnrock
ID: 40204734
Yes, but that is very low bandwidth. The issue with the thin clients could actually be involving the Citrix environment itself. A lot of factors come into play.

What is the role of the person who proposed it, and what is yours?
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Mohammed Khawaja earned 668 total points
ID: 40205009
Here is some information on data transfer between dumb terminals and servers (RDP or Citrix).  If we look at a traditional application connecting to a database, there is always chatter and in some cases, poorly written applications may pull large amount of data and do processing at the client level (i.e. pull all data from a table, process and then display only 2 out of 50,000 records).  Citrix and RDP send only mouse and keyboard commands and receive only screen refreshes (deltas only).  The only other application that comes close to working under low bandwidth situations would be SAPGUI.  RDP, ICA and SAPGUI could function fine where bandwidth might be an issue for even browsing.

Having said all this, what are the applications you want to run as well as what is the bandwidth between the sites.
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Author Comment

by:JeffBeall
ID: 40205102
my role is just that i was upgrading the pc's in the slow office. I know the person who wants to deploy the Wyse devices and wanted to advise her that the network in the slow office is VERY slow.
Before i offered any advise, I wanted to do some fact checking. So from all these comments, I feel like my conscerns are not supported. But I can't help but feel skeptical because of what I have mentioned already. In the main office where I know the network is fast, the Wyse devices seem slow or at least as fast as the pc's.
Unfortunetly I don't have access to the routers, or do I know who would know what kind of connection we have between the offices. I want to say that it is a T1, but I'm not sure.
On top of all of this,  for the sake of arguement, lets say it is actually the Citrix environment that is causing the slowness on the Wyse devices. Wouldn't it make sense to avoid Citrix until they fix whatever is causing the slowness?
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by:masnrock
ID: 40205220
It is smart to at least observe the environment. But if the thin client environment is having issues, that does need to get looked at before adding more people.

But to start off with, try to see why the connection between the offices is slow. Could be a slow connection at remote office, a poorly done point to point vpn, or several other things.
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Author Closing Comment

by:JeffBeall
ID: 40208983
thank you for the help.
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