Email Marketing

Can anyone tell me how companies like http://www.clickback.com can advertise a service where they send out unsolicited email to non-opt-in subscribers (spam), when all the other emailing companies insist on op-in lists?

Do they have an unlimited supply of fresh IP addresses that they're happy to get blacklisted?
Silas2Asked:
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GaryCommented:
B2B email does not come under the SPAM unsolicited email laws and is opt-out not opt-in
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Silas2Author Commented:
Whilst that may be true, non of the commercial email outsource companies will touch unsolicited as they say it blacklists all their IPs and ruins it for their other customers, do you think these guys have a way round that?
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GaryCommented:
Not true,
Whilst they may say that it is unlikely the truth
How did they get their email lists in the first place if they never emailed them? I'm pretty sure they didn't phone every company up asking for their email. But likely bought the lists off other companies who do just compile non opted in email addresses

You can not be blacklisted for this type of emailing

Reputable companies will of course only email companies in the field of the email advertisement.
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Silas2Author Commented:
What I mean is, if you talk to any of the out-source emailing companies (and I've spoken to a few), they all say, 'how did you get your list?', if you say, 'I bought it', they say, 'No-way, we only do opt-in
their argument is, if its opt-in their IP address won't get listed as a source of spam, otherwise it will.

Their customers have subscribers and they worry that their subscriber's mail won't get thru.
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GaryCommented:
Ask them how did they manage to get them to opt-in?

I've worked with sales generation software and all the details were garnered from company records
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Silas2Author Commented:
Its not these companies which get the opt-in, its their customers.

Their customers get their lists from the usual way, people give their email addresses, mostly on-line , but sometimes over-the counter, clubs, retailers, etc. They're not cold unsolicited. If you buy a list, it has been sold over and over. so each one will receive hundreds of cold spam.

The way these companies tell that you are using bought lists is the proportion of rejects.

Someone I know was thrown off GoDaddy for having too many rejected emails cos they were worried about the shared IP address being blacklisted.

That ClickBack site boasts that they are the only company providing email services for bought lists. I just don't know how they can do it without an enormous number of IP addresses to burn.
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GaryCommented:
GoDaddy is a bad example, they used to not have any spam protection in place and managed to get pretty much every IP they owned blacklisted - nowadays there is no way a shared IP could be blacklisted as all email is sent through a relay server.


But still the company is doing nothing wrong and any blacklisting would be simply overturned.
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Silas2Author Commented:
My experience has been that all the 3rd party email companies out there do not do 'purchased lists', I amazed if your experience has been different.

I sort of take their point, their main bread and butter is from companies which have invested a lot to build up their lists, and so they want all of their messages to get thru.

A purchased list will be punished remorselessly by everybody and anybody - and therefore a clean IP is very valuable. As soon as a few complaints reach spam Assassin, et el, that IP is useless.

How do ClickBack do it? They must have hundreds of IPs to burn.
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Silas2Author Commented:
Just to give one example, look at SendGrid's Ts & C s

http://sendgrid.com/email_policy
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GaryCommented:
After checking the company out they seem to comply with all SPAM regulations and have very little blacklisting, not that a company of this type could avoid it

So back to your original question - how can they do it?
Because there is no regulation against it.
Trying to pit them against other companies who have different policies is pointless.
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Silas2Author Commented:
Do you know of any company which will allow a high-level or rejects/purchased lists?
Either a plain ISP on a shared IP, or a specialist email co like sendgrid?

(I do know that some companies will let you have a static IP, and let you do what you want with it, but the IP is probably blacklisted already)
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GaryCommented:
Why not just use clickback.com
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Silas2Author Commented:
Cos I want to know how they do it!!!!! They seem to be the only ones, and they've just started doing purchased list, so I'm wondering what they have others don't.
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GaryCommented:
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Silas2Author Commented:
Ah, interesting point, they claim:
valid for delivery to inboxes

My understanding is the only SMTP bit of the protocol which responds to a verification request has been disabled years ago by all postmasters when spammers realised how useful it was, so my understanding is they only way to check is to see if you get a reject to a full send, so you're back to having an IP address to burn...if that's what you're pointing to.
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GaryCommented:
They probably have millions upon millions of email addresses they can cross check against previous sending attempts.
Ferret out all the webmaster, postmaster ones etc.
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Silas2Author Commented:
You may be right, but I would imagine, even with that level of shared data, they'll get a very high bounce. B2b emails get out of date so quick.

All that stuff about artificial intelligence I don't believe, SMTP is such a simple protocol, there's very little you can learn about the recipient.
Hmmm...it could of course just be crap, and they just hope for the best using any old IP.

Maybe if they have the scale, they buy large banks of IPs in far off lands and cycle them.
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GaryCommented:
Hmmm...it could of course just be crap
Very likely sales blurb.
But as an email marketer it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume they have 100's of millions of email addresses.
e.g. Two bouncebacks from one company would be enough to ban all emails to that company.
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