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iomega 100 mb zip disk format?

Posted on 2014-10-10
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Last Modified: 2014-10-21
situation is there is a 100mb zip drive in a Cessna jet airplane, which is used to transfer navigation updates to the onboard computer. You subscribe to the data service, download to your computer, copy to zip drive, take disk to jet, to upload to proprietary computer there. Jet was new in 2004, so assuming zip format is what was used at that time. The computer in the jet can't read or format disks...errors that disk unreadable, or something similar. Purchased 10 new zip 100 disks, formated with windows format utility as fat32 and fat16. Same error. Used third party formatting, and formatted as fat12, still same. At an un-named Cessna service center, they were able to upload data, using their zip 100 disk, but the guy doing it stated that only a very few disks can be used, and they are all old. Any ideas as to what is unique about "certain old disks"? So far, unable to find a copy of old Iomega software, to try that...

Thanks
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Question by:GCITech
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20 Comments
 
LVL 30

Expert Comment

by:pgm554
ID: 40374288
proprietary computer?
Zip also does Linux and Mac,so M$ may not be the correct format.
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LVL 29

Expert Comment

by:serialband
ID: 40374299
Maybe the drive is bad.  Those zip drives can and do fail after a while, maybe it needs cleaning or it's mis-aligned.  Some of the earlier ones suffered the click of death.  10 years is a very long time for all the newer, post 90s, commodity computer hardware. Maybe you need to get Cessna or the Navigation Computer manufacturer to check it.  Did that computer have USB.  That might be worth testing too.
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LVL 83

Expert Comment

by:Dave Baldwin
ID: 40374417
This page https://lenovo-na-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16752 says:
Iomega no longer supports or provides IomegaWare, Zip Tools software, or the legacy backup programs that originally shipped with Zip drives. If you are using a PC running Windows XP or above, or if you are using Mac OS X, your Zip drive is supported natively by the operating system.
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LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40374486
imo - you best contact the maker of the jet plane, or those who made the navigation system for info
can it be from universal avionics?  this system uses 100 Mb zip drives :  http://www.uasc.com/documents/techpubs/FMS_SCN604.0-704.0_sb2644.pdf
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LVL 62

Expert Comment

by:☠ MASQ ☠
ID: 40374510
There is no magic to this, you need a 100MB Zip disk formatted as FAT  (Not FAT16 or 32) with no data on before copying the update file to it.
http://uasc.com/documents/support/DownloadingFromUninet.pdf

nobus - this is the link below yours on the Wiki page :)
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LVL 83

Expert Comment

by:Dave Baldwin
ID: 40374563
Here is some interesting info on FAT (File Allocation Table) formats:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table  There is FAT12 which will only format to 32MB, FAT16 which goes to 2GB, and FAT32 for up to 2TB.  When they say FAT, they are probably referring to FAT16... but the problem with that is that there are 3 different versions which are not necessarily compatible with each other.  Windows XP would only use a FAT12 format on a floppy.
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Author Comment

by:GCITech
ID: 40386773
Gentlemen,
I appreciate the answers put forth, however, as Dave Baldwin has pointed out in the last response, it is not as simple as "you need a 100MB Zip disk formatted as FAT  (Not FAT16 or 32) with no data on before copying the update file to it.". I also have read all the public articles that were kindly pointed out to me, before posting here. My hope was there might be some "tribal knowledge" that was not documented in any of the public, commonly looked to, sources for information. I did check the drive (used theirs on my pc, and others in their device), with same results. Also, Cessna does have a solution, but it involves changing the zip disk to a usb interface. While that is a good solution,  Cessna is  willing to do it for the "discounted price of $12,000.00, more or less". The airplane owner can afford it, but I am a computer guy who thinks that is absurd, and it presented a personal challenge, to resolve. We do know, that the hardware and software on the airplane, do in fact work, as, The "magic old disk" was used to update the database a month or so ago. I do not have access to that disk, as its owner, will not let it out of his possession (and rightly so, I suppose). The avionics people are Universal avionics, so that is the correct source for information, but they offer no more than what we have all, already read. Any additional input will greatly be appreciated.
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LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40386812
can you put the "old" zip disk in a normal zip disk reader, connected to a PC?
then the disk mannagement will inform you about the file system on it (if windows recognises it)
if it does not, try with testdisk : http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk
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Author Comment

by:GCITech
ID: 40386852
I don't have access to the "old disk". I agree, that would be the best way to find out what is going on. Thanks for pointing out testdisk. I was not familiar with it.
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LVL 62

Expert Comment

by:☠ MASQ ☠
ID: 40386917
Agree we've very little to add at the moment other than some background on older storage media and Google.
The other possibility might be that the original Zip disk has a different media header. Do you have access to a SCSI based Zip drive older than the plane? - If you can get hold of a copy of the original ZipTools there's a formatting utility on there that will produce a disk which should have the original Zip FAT (although this is ostensibly Win2K FAT16).  The downside is I'm pretty sure the original ZipTools won't run in XP or better.

That aside I do have an late 90's ZipTools disk somewhere in the loft.  If you want to try I'm happy to go hunting, Provided I can open it in a VM I'll get the contents on a share.  Again though it's probably worth a Google for ZipTools 1.0
It's probably combined with the SCSI JazTools.
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Author Comment

by:GCITech
ID: 40386978
MASQ,
I think the early version of Zip tools would greatly move this project along, if you could find time to locate them. I do have access to most any combination of old hardware and O/S needed, to utilize them. I looked for early versions of the software unsuccessfully, at the start of this project. I even found links to their (Iomega's) old ftp site, but it has all been taken down. If you could provide that, it will be most helpful.
Thanks.
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LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40387069
GCITech - if needed , i have still a zip drive here, with carts
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LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40387075
>>  I don't have access to the "old disk"  <<  how does the guy want you to fix it then??  i don't get it
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LVL 62

Accepted Solution

by:
☠ MASQ ☠ earned 375 total points
ID: 40387160
Found this just before leaving the office
http://www.outfoxed.net/iomega/Iomega_Zip_Tools.rar
Looks like its the 1997 Windows 95 version.

If nobus & I look out the versions we have too then between us we should be able to get you simulating a range of first generation formatted Zip Disks.

Had another though this pm - do you have the update file or can you link to it?  I'm wondering if it's an image file like you used to get with FDDs and writes a specific file format as it unpacks?
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Author Comment

by:GCITech
ID: 40387282
MASQ
Downloaded .rar. Looks very promising. Definitely will give me more things to try. Will configure a win95 box later this afternoon, and try. Looks like there is also a DOS version, for more variety. I will report back later this weekend.

Nobus
Old disk works fine...is NOT broke...is the only one that does work. Belongs to the Cessna tech, at the Cessna service center. We are trying to replicate whatever is unique about his zip disk, Now, we have to purchase the data from the navigation people, then go see him, to use his "magic" disk. We are trying to fix new disks, to act like old ones.
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Author Comment

by:GCITech
ID: 40387397
nobus,
you said you you still have a zip drive with carts. I am assuming carts is abbreviation for cartidges?  If so, would you compare both sides of the cartridge, with these pics I am including?. I am curious if they changed location, or size of any identifying dip or hole in the plastic body of the disks, or any other physical difference.
Thanks
IMG-20141017-135842-754.jpg
IMG-20141017-135815-562.jpg
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LVL 62

Assisted Solution

by:☠ MASQ ☠
☠ MASQ ☠ earned 375 total points
ID: 40387583
Not sure if this helps at all ....
Tools Disk (Front)Tools Disk (Back)
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LVL 92

Assisted Solution

by:nobus
nobus earned 125 total points
ID: 40388024
here's what i have  (also the software, and the 250 mb format)
b zip-front.jpg
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Author Comment

by:GCITech
ID: 40395573
Gentlemen,
IT WORKS!   Sorry..a little excited there.  Thanks to Nobus for the pics. That ruled out cartridge physical differences. We took an old computer, loaded Windows 95 on it, and then installed software from link provided by MASQ. Formated the cartridge with Iomega Tools from the link, and the computer in the airplane is able to read them. Interesting thing, in the Iomega software, if you look at properties of the disk after windows formats, it says "uknown type" After formating with Zip tools, says FAT 16 bit. Thanks to all, for the assistance.
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LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40396256
good to hear you have a solution !
don't forget to close this Q properly now
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