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tagged or untagged?

Posted on 2014-11-14
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Last Modified: 2014-12-08
ports for my voice vlan on my hp 2910al l3?
i have enabled qos rule (ef|46) and added voice on the vlan but still having issues with qos.
So next thing is to tag all my ports on the voice vlan.  Should i, can i test a single tagged port on the vlan for one phone?
phones are directly connected to switch not daisy chained.

thanks
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Question by:CHI-LTD
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by:Predrag Jovic
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ID: 40442567
Yes, you should tagg voice VLAN.
Manual page 82 - chapter 2 - 56
Voice VLAN QoS Prioritizing (Optional)
Without configuring the switch to prioritize voice VLAN traffic, one of the following conditions applies:
■ If the ports in a voice VLAN are not tagged members, then the switch forwards all traffic on that VLAN at “normal” priority.
■ If the ports in a voice VLAN are tagged members, then the switch forwards all traffic on that VLAN at whatever priority the traffic has when received inbound on the switch.
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40442675
even if i have a qos rule in place?
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40442687
here is config:

Why is data vlan no untagged?

ip authorized-managers 172.19.0.0 255.255.0.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 172.16.0.0 255.255.0.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 10.255.255.0 255.255.255.128 access manager
ip authorized-managers 192.168.2.0 255.255.255.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 192.168.3.0 255.255.255.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 10.255.254.0 255.255.255.128 access manager
ip authorized-managers 192.168.100.0 255.255.255.0 access manager
ip default-gateway 172.19.10.15
no ip icmp redirects
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 172.19.10.15
ip routing
interface 1
   name "to HP1910 (top)"
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 2
   name "tp HP1910 (bottom)"
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 3
   name "to ASA 5505 fe01"
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 4
   name "Cisco_AP_172.19.3.20"
   exit
interface 5
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 6
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 7
   name "Shoretel E1k"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 8
   name "Shoretel SG90"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 9
   name "Shoretel SG90Bri"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 10
   name "chi-Oaisys"
   exit
interface 11
   name "Shoretel HQ"
   exit
interface 12
   name "Ingate"
   exit
interface 19
   name "Test Phone"
   exit
interface 31
   name ""
   exit
snmp-server community "public" unrestricted
snmp-server contact "IT"
vlan 1
   name "DEFAULT_VLAN"
   no untagged 7-48
   untagged 1-6
   ip address 172.19.4.5 255.255.0.0
   exit
vlan 20
   name "Voice"
   untagged 7-48
   ip address 172.16.4.5 255.255.0.0
   ip helper-address 172.19.10.17
   ip helper-address 172.19.10.18
   qos dscp 101110
   voice
   exit
no autorun
password manager

HP-E2910al-48G-PoE(config)#
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40442723
even if i have voice enabled on the vlan?

bottom of page 5-40
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Predrag Jovic earned 291 total points
ID: 40443626
Page 2 -55

Operating Rules for Voice VLANs
■ You must statically configure voice VLANs. GVRP and dynamic VLANs do not support voice VLAN operation.
Configure all ports in a voice VLAN as tagged members of the VLAN. This ensures retention of the QoS (Quality of Service) priority included in voice VLAN traffic moving through your network.
■ If a telephone connected to a voice VLAN includes a data port used for connecting other networked devices (such as PCs) to the network, then you must configure the port as a tagged member of the voice VLAN and a tagged or untagged member of the data VLAN you want the other networked device to use.
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by:Predrag Jovic
ID: 40444113
Read this:
Dot1q and Dot1p
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by:Craig Beck
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ID: 40444590
You don't 'have' to tag anything in a VLAN for QoS to work.

Your config explicitly puts ports 1-6 in VLAN 1 and ports 7-48 in VLAN 20.  There is no tagging there.  Is that just to test?

Usually you'd tag everything in the voice VLAN and untag the data, like this...

vlan 1
 untagged 1-48
vlan 20
 voice
 tagged 1-48

Open in new window


Your phones should know to go onto the Voice VLAN either by LLDP or DHCP options.  Anything else is untagged in the data VLAN.
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by:Predrag Jovic
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You don't 'have' to tag anything in a VLAN for QoS to work.
I'm not sure about this in this case.
Since HP manual in this case explicitly says:
■ Configure all ports in a voice VLAN as tagged members of the VLAN. This ensures retention of the QoS (Quality of Service) priority included in voice VLAN traffic moving through your network.

Switch most likely  is rewriting the CoS value when frames are entering port for VOICE VLAN and I guess that's why HP says voice VLAN port need be tagged.  Rewrite of the CoS value can't be done if port is untagged, because untagged ports don't have CoS value since it is part of tag.
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by:Craig Beck
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Trust me... You don't need to tag a packet with 802.1Q to apply QoS to it.  Just think about what happens to a packet when it traverses a routed link... Its on the same VLAN as every other packet.

What about non-voice packets on the Voice VLAN?  We don't particularly want to prioritize ALL traffic, just voice traffic.  Really, think about it, VLAN tagging just helps but its not mandatory.

Read here...

http://www.hp.com/rnd/device_help/help/hpwnd/webhelp/HPJ4121A/configuration_cos.htm
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40446903
thanks chaps.
well we have had no tagging enabled for aprox a year after install, and quality has slowly deteriorated (intermittantly).
our link usage has been no more than 20% on average, so bandwidth not an issue.  ISP and Comms providers pointing finger at switch from ping tests.  

tried a qos rule, then enabled voice on the vlan20 (as per the hp manual)
now looking at tagging.  
our phones have been configured with tagging on...

latest config:
Running configuration:

; J9148A Configuration Editor; Created on release #W.15.08.0012
; Ver #02:11.05:16
hostname "HP-E2910al-48G-PoE"
module 1 type j9148a
mirror-port 5
power-over-ethernet pre-std-detect
qos type-of-service diff-services
timesync sntp
sntp unicast
sntp server priority 1 87.124.126.49
sntp server priority 2 178.79.165.21
time timezone 60
ip authorized-managers 172.19.0.0 255.255.0.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 172.16.0.0 255.255.0.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 10.255.255.0 255.255.255.128 access manager
ip authorized-managers 192.168.2.0 255.255.255.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 192.168.3.0 255.255.255.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 10.255.254.0 255.255.255.128 access manager
ip authorized-managers 192.168.100.0 255.255.255.0 access manager
ip default-gateway 172.19.10.15
no ip icmp redirects
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 172.19.10.15
ip routing
interface 1
   name "to HP1910 (top)"
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 2
   name "tp HP1910 (bottom)"
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 3
   name "to ASA 5505 fe01"
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 4
   name "Cisco_AP_172.19.3.20"
   exit
interface 5
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 6
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 7
   name "Shoretel E1k"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 8
   name "Shoretel SG90"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 9
   name "Shoretel SG90Bri"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 10
   name "chi-Oaisys"
   exit
interface 11
   name "Shoretel HQ"
   exit
interface 12
   name "Ingate"
   exit
interface 19
   name "Test Phone"
   exit
interface 21
   name ""
   exit
interface 31
   name ""
   exit
snmp-server community "public" unrestricted
snmp-server contact "IT"
vlan 1
   name "DEFAULT_VLAN"
   no untagged 7-20,22-48
   untagged 1-6,21
   ip address 172.19.4.5 255.255.0.0
   exit
vlan 20
   name "Voice"
   untagged 7-18,20,22-48
   tagged 19,21
   ip address 172.16.4.5 255.255.0.0
   ip helper-address 172.19.10.17
   ip helper-address 172.19.10.18
   qos dscp 101110
   voice
   exit
no autorun
password manager
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by:Predrag Jovic
Predrag Jovic earned 291 total points
ID: 40446909
our phones have been configured with tagging on...
manual 2 - 56
■ Tagged/Untagged VLAN Membership: If the appliances using a voice VLAN transmit tagged VLAN packets, then configure the member ports as tagged members of the VLAN. Otherwise, configure the ports as untagged members.
:)
And this
For example, if you configured a voice VLAN with a VID of 10, and wanted the highest priority for all traffic on this VLAN, you would execute the following command:
ProCurve(config) # vlan 10 qos priority 7
ProCurve (config) # write memory
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40446919
ProCurve(config) # vlan 10 qos priority 7

isnt that the same as my dscp value?
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by:Predrag Jovic
ID: 40446921
Yes it is. Just looking at that.
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by:Predrag Jovic
ID: 40446927
What is result of:
show qos queue-config
show qos dscp-map
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40447013
HP-E2910al-48G-PoE(config)# show qos queue-config

 Outbound Port Queue Configuration



         802.1p
 Queue  Priority
 -----  --------
   1      1,2
   2      0,3
   3      4,5
   4      6,7

HP-E2910al-48G-PoE(config)#
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40447016
and the other thing is, should all the shoretel kit (switches, director (windows box), ingate) ports be tagged?
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by:Predrag Jovic
ID: 40447051
I think this is answer to your question. (From above)
■ Configure all ports in a voice VLAN as tagged members of the VLAN. This ensures retention of the QoS (Quality of Service) priority included in voice VLAN traffic moving through your network.
Otherwise, you need to configure every switch and device separately for prioritize voice traffic.

And what is output  for
show qos dscp-map
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40447080
DSCP -> 802.p priority mappings

  DSCP CodePoint DSCP Value 802.1p tag  DSCP Policy name
  -------------- ---------- ----------- --------------------------------
  000000         0          0           cs0
  000001         1          No-override
  000010         2          No-override
  000011         3          No-override
  000100         4          No-override
  000101         5          No-override
  000110         6          No-override
  000111         7          No-override
  001000         8          1           cs1
  001001         9          No-override
  001010         10         1           af11
  001011         11         No-override
  001100         12         1           af12
  001101         13         No-override
  001110         14         2           af13
  001111         15         No-override
  010000         16         2           cs2
  010001         17         No-override
  010010         18         0           af21
  010011         19         No-override
  010100         20         0           af22
  010101         21         No-override
  010110         22         3           af23
  010111         23         No-override
  011000         24         3           cs3
  011001         25         No-override
  011010         26         4           af31
  011011         27         No-override
  011100         28         4           af32
  011101         29         No-override
  011110         30         5           af33
  011111         31         No-override
  100000         32         4           cs4
  100001         33         No-override
  100010         34         6           af41
  100011         35         No-override
  100100         36         6           af42
  100101         37         No-override
  100110         38         7           af43
  100111         39         No-override
  101000         40         5           cs5
  101001         41         No-override
  101010         42         No-override
  010010         18         0           af21
  010011         19         No-override
  010100         20         0           af22
  010101         21         No-override
  010110         22         3           af23
  010111         23         No-override
  011000         24         3           cs3
  011001         25         No-override
  011010         26         4           af31
  011011         27         No-override
  011100         28         4           af32
  011101         29         No-override
  011110         30         5           af33
  011111         31         No-override
  100000         32         4           cs4
  100001         33         No-override
  100010         34         6           af41
  100011         35         No-override
  100100         36         6           af42
  100101         37         No-override
  100110         38         7           af43
  100111         39         No-override
  101000         40         5           cs5
  101001         41         No-override
  101010         42         No-override
  101011         43         No-override
  101100         44         No-override
  101101         45         No-override
  101110         46         7           ef
  101111         47         No-override
  110000         48         6           cs6
  110001         49         No-override
  110010         50         No-override
  110011         51         No-override
  110100         52         No-override
  110101         53         No-override
  110110         54         No-override
  110111         55         No-override
  111000         56         7           cs7
  111001         57         No-override
  111010         58         No-override
  111011         59         No-override
  111100         60         No-override
  111101         61         No-override
  111110         62         No-override
  111111         63         No-override


HP-E2910al-48G-PoE(config)#
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40447087
i have a phone connected on voice vlan (port 21) that i have managed to tag on vlan1 data by mistake, so i untagged it.
is this ok?  or should i set the port on the data vlan to no?
thanks
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40447091
ignore last msg:

config:

   exit
interface 9
   name "Shoretel SG90Bri"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 10
   name "chi-Oaisys"
   exit
interface 11
   name "Shoretel HQ"
   exit
interface 12
   name "Ingate"
   exit
interface 19
   name "Test Phone"
   exit
interface 21
   name ""
   exit
interface 25
   name ""
   exit
interface 31
   name ""
   exit
snmp-server community "public" unrestricted
snmp-server contact "IT"
vlan 1
   name "DEFAULT_VLAN"
   no untagged 7-48
   untagged 1-6
   ip address 172.19.4.5 255.255.0.0
   exit
vlan 20
   name "Voice"
   untagged 7-18,20,22-24,26-48
   tagged 19,21,25
   ip address 172.16.4.5 255.255.0.0
   ip helper-address 172.19.10.17
   ip helper-address 172.19.10.18
   qos dscp 101110
   voice
   exit
no autorun
password manager

HP-E2910al-48G-PoE(config)# write memory
HP-E2910al-48G-PoE(config)#
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40447114
this is another document that keeps getting pushed down my neck http://www.baysidemedia.com/ShoreTel/best_practices_vlan.pdf
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40447173
and does anyone know if the cisco asa 5505 and/or cisco 1921 can prioritise voice?
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by:Craig Beck
Craig Beck earned 209 total points
ID: 40448003
Yes they both can.
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by:Craig Beck
Craig Beck earned 209 total points
ID: 40448012
I think this is answer to your question. (From above)
■ Configure all ports in a voice VLAN as tagged members of the VLAN. This ensures retention of the QoS (Quality of Service) priority included in voice VLAN traffic moving through your network.
Otherwise, you need to configure every switch and device separately for prioritize voice traffic.
Specifically this...
Otherwise, you need to configure every switch and device separately for prioritize voice traffic

You have to apply QoS to ALL devices that voice traffic is used on or passes through.  This is NOT optional if you want the QoS markings to be maintained across your network.

Configuring all ports in the voice VLAN as tagged will only help to ensure that the marking you applied to the VLAN itself is applied to voice packets, but that doesn't mean you can't apply QoS to voice traffic by other means.  This is my point.

There's more than one way to skin a cat...
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40449246
sure.
i assume more than just phones can be tagged e.g. windows 2008 servers, shoretel switches etc?
ta
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40449333
slight o/t, would the ports on the L3 HP switch that connect to my layer 2 switches need to be set as trunks?
The layer 2s just run vlan1 (data)?
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40449960
Sorry to add more slightly o/t info at this, but my comms co are saying (with regards to enabling tagging on the voice vlan ports):

What do you mean by tagging ? If it is V-LAN tagging that you are referring to, it is only the handsets that have a V-LAN tag configured.

The ShoreTel Server and switches, would be plugged into an Access (Cisco) / Un-tagged ports (HP), configured with the same V-LAN as the phone tag.

There is nothing to show on the ShoreTel system for this.

and

You don’t configure the Shoretel switches to tag, you plug them into a Access Port (Cisco) or Un-tagged Port (HP), hardcoded with the voice v-lan id.
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by:Predrag Jovic
ID: 40450281
On that link that you gave you can see that
ports to ShoreTel Phones are configured as trunks

ports to ShoreTel Server and ShoreTel ShoreGear Switch are configured as access
////(I have never worked with ShoreTel equipment)

So all other infrastructure to  phones and between switches should be trunks, except PC-s and ShoreTel Server and ShoreTel ShoreGear Switch.

Sorry, my crystal ball didn't saw those ShoreTel servers and Switches. :)
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40450312
im going to tag all voice vlan ports and see how we get on
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40450335
well tagging all the ports on voice failed and i lost connection to the shoretel kit
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by:Predrag Jovic
ID: 40450522
That probably  means that phones are set to send untagged frames.
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by:Craig Beck
ID: 40450938
That probably  means that phones are set to send untagged frames.
+1 for that!

As well as tagging ports, you need to tell the kit to tag too, otherwise all of its traffic will be dropped onto the untagged VLAN.
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40451817
the shoretel phones are set, tagging - on in dhcp 'layer2tagging=1'
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by:Craig Beck
ID: 40451850
the shoretel phones are set, tagging - on in dhcp 'layer2tagging=1'
That's a bit different.  That means the phones go into the data (untagged) VLAN first, get told via DHCP to tag packets, then tag in the Voice VLAN.  You need to make sure LLDP isn't running on the switch where the phone plugs in then or it may never drop into the data VLAN to actually receive the DHCP info.
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40451873
the ports in vlan20 have lldp dot3 tlv enabled, the poe lldp-med is disabled.
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40451943
phones still get ips from helper/dhcp...
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by:Craig Beck
ID: 40451961
phones still get ips from helper/dhcp...
Do the phones get an IP on the data VLAN?
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40451969
no voice
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by:Craig Beck
ID: 40452006
So how do they get on the Voice VLAN if you're not telling them what VLAN ID to use?  You must be putting them on the Voice VLAN untagged.  That would explain why when you set them to tagged they stop working.

What's supposed to happen is this...

1] Phone powers up and sends untagged DHCP request on data VLAN.
2] Phone receives IP with DHCP option 176 or 242 (usually) which includes option to tag L2 and the VLAN ID.
3] Phone tags packets on VLAN ID received from DHCP and issues new DHCP request.
4] Phone obtains IP on Voice VLAN.

Can you indicate which port a phone is connected to right now, and show us the VLAN config on the switch please?
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by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40452012
its only the shoretel server, switches that failed to work, the phone were/are ok.

sure:
Running configuration:

; J9148A Configuration Editor; Created on release #W.15.08.0012
; Ver #02:11.05:16
hostname "HP-E2910al-48G-PoE"
module 1 type j9148a
mirror-port 5
power-over-ethernet pre-std-detect
qos type-of-service diff-services
timesync sntp
sntp unicast
sntp server priority 1 87.124.126.49
sntp server priority 2 178.79.165.21
time timezone 60
ip authorized-managers 172.19.0.0 255.255.0.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 172.16.0.0 255.255.0.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 10.255.255.0 255.255.255.128 access manager
ip authorized-managers 192.168.2.0 255.255.255.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 192.168.3.0 255.255.255.0 access manager
ip authorized-managers 10.255.254.0 255.255.255.128 access manager
ip authorized-managers 192.168.100.0 255.255.255.0 access manager
ip default-gateway 172.19.10.15
no ip icmp redirects
ip route 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 172.19.10.15
ip routing
interface 1
   name "to HP1910 (top)"
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 2
   name "tp HP1910 (bottom)"
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 3
   name "to ASA 5505 fe01"
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 4
   name "Cisco_AP_172.19.3.20"
   exit
interface 5
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 6
   no power-over-ethernet
   exit
interface 7
   name "Shoretel E1k"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 8
   name "Shoretel SG90"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 9
   name "Shoretel SG90Bri"
   speed-duplex 100-full
   exit
interface 10
   name "chi-Oaisys"
   exit
interface 11
   name "Shoretel HQ"
   exit
interface 12
   name "Ingate"
   exit
interface 19
   name "Test Phone"
   exit
interface 21
   name ""
   exit
interface 25
   name ""
   exit
interface 31
   name ""
   exit
snmp-server community "public" unrestricted
snmp-server contact "IT"
vlan 1
   name "DEFAULT_VLAN"
   no untagged 7-48
   untagged 1-6
   ip address 172.19.4.5 255.255.0.0
   exit
vlan 20
   name "Voice"
   untagged 7-12
   tagged 13-48
   ip address 172.16.4.5 255.255.0.0
   ip helper-address 172.19.10.17
   ip helper-address 172.19.10.18
   qos dscp 101110
   voice
   exit
no autorun
password manager
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40452040
would the 'primary' vlan setting be an issue?
0
 
LVL 45

Assisted Solution

by:Craig Beck
Craig Beck earned 209 total points
ID: 40452431
The server won't do (or need) 802.1Q so you just put that in a port which is untagged in the voice VLAN, so if your server is connected to port 3 you'd use...

vlan 20
 untagged 3

Open in new window

0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40452501
so your saying untag the windows server and tag the other shoretel kit ?
0
 
LVL 26

Assisted Solution

by:Predrag Jovic
Predrag Jovic earned 291 total points
ID: 40452613
The easiest way to resolve issue.
Tag just one port (with attached phone (without data VLAN) and make that phone work.
- verify that phone is in right VLAN, that phone can communicate with telephone server and other phones.

That's what I always do.
I break complex problems into small, solvable, pieces and then I solve those small problems.

In this case
If one telephone can work with tagged port (that includes QoS), the rest is easy (from manuals we know that phones have that capability).
After that you'll need to make phone work along side with data VLAN on the same port.
After that communication between switches (if  it is necessary to do that).
This approach eliminates bunch of problems that, perhaps, are not related with each other.
As example: You tagged previously many ports and all stopped working, it is hard to find piece where change has happened.  This way you don't disturb other parts of working network and create less and shorter outages and downtime.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40452625
all the [phones are working with or without tagging at present.  its more a case of trying to improve quality of the intermittent calls.
so now i have all phones tagged on voice.  all other devices on the voice vlan are untagged.
how do i know if the qos is working?
and why am i getting c150 ping sometimes?
0
 
LVL 45

Expert Comment

by:Craig Beck
ID: 40452708
ONLY phones should be tagged in the Voice VLAN - everything else that needs to be in the Voice VLAN should be untagged in the Voice VLAN.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40452716
as it is now then..
still had one complaint earlier though..
0
 
LVL 26

Assisted Solution

by:Predrag Jovic
Predrag Jovic earned 291 total points
ID: 40452812
All phones should work as tagged.

From earlier commands
show qos dscp-map
show qos queue-config
it shows that you have 4 groups for 802.1p Queue  Priority, and that  dscp 101110  is maped to 802.1p 7 ef, so VOICE VLAN have highest priority currently.
But 802.1p is implemented in 802.1q so if network is native there's no 802.1p present since there is no 802.1q tag inserted into frames So surely QoS cannot be transfered to another switch (if can be used at all). That's way all phones need to be tagged.

OK, you had complaint, I ask just one simple question.
Between what phones that happened?
Are both of phones tagged? Or one tagged and other untagged? Or both untagged,? Since you are saying that some phones are tagged, and others untagged.
If that complaint was about call between your and other network, that's different than if that problem occurred inside your network. Were both phones on the same switch? Or on different switches?
What I am trying to resolve right now is internal issue for phone calls in your company.
When that is solved than you can go on from there.
And also we need as much info as possible.
I cannot find solution for problem that I don't know that exist.

show qos device-priority
show qos port-priority
show qos tcp-udp-port-priority
show qos vlan-priority
show qos type-of-service

Manual from above age chapter 5 - few pages starting from 56
You should be able to verify priority on that switch with that commands.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40452883
its calls external over the wan not internal.
0
 
LVL 26

Assisted Solution

by:Predrag Jovic
Predrag Jovic earned 291 total points
ID: 40452930
If it is problem with external calls, it may have little in common with problems what we were talking about. External link need QoS between you and provider to be uninterrupted. QoS need to be present from your phone all the way to other party. That demands 802.1p to be present through all the network. From your phone (starting here) to other involved party. If there is no priority  setting when you packets are leaving your network, it is all in vain. Or if network provider don't accept your QoS.
So, maybe we are solving wrong problem all the time (just because we started with your first question as you did - and continue resolving that issue) and answering wrong question.
Where you need your QoS the most is on WAN interface , because biggest chance for congestion is right there.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Closing Comment

by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40466919
qos to be setup on wan links.
still not sure if the internal qos and tagging required (especially when losing the shoretel servers/switches) when tagging)
0
 
LVL 26

Expert Comment

by:Predrag Jovic
ID: 40480569
You don't need to tag packets as they entering port. You can, but it is not needed to do so.
You can set cos or dscp value to packets as they entering a switch (it is recommended to do so, although you still don't need to), to make easier for router to use QoS. You can save some CPU cycles by marking packets on switches, and prioritize traffic related to values that you previously assigned to packets entering switch.
0
 
LVL 1

Author Comment

by:CHI-LTD
ID: 40486410
okay thanks, all seems a bit 'hit and miss'.
example our remote site with shoretel switch, phones and l3 poe switch hasn't had qos setup since day one.
They route to our HQ over VPN, and they tell me they haven't had any issues with quality.
Our HQ had qos enabled on the switch since the qos issues and it got better (or at least users say it has - since the changes).
Im now in process of getting qos setup on the wan links by our ISP to sure it up...

Doesn't really explain to me why our remote site is working fine...
0
 
LVL 26

Expert Comment

by:Predrag Jovic
ID: 40486486
I reviewed my QoS for a few last days (it is incredible how things are fast forgotten). :)
Best way to setup QoS is that you prioritize voice traffic through all of you network (you can enable QoS and tag frames to ensure priority, this is one of the best ways to do that since it is easy for routers to keep track of traffic to prioritize). But, as already is said, place where you need it most is WAN port since there is congestion and you need to have way to prioritize voice traffic.
Your ISP can prioritize your voice traffic if they want to, but  usually ISP don't trust priority markings from companies. On internet there is no guaranties that your traffic will be prioritized, it is best effort traffic.

Don't having problems between HQ and branch office in this case can be type of connection between those two offices. If you have metro ethernet your traffic could be prioritized by ISP between your offices.

I would still tag voice traffic as traffic enters switches (it is Cisco recommendation also), since it it much easier to apply QoS rules when it comes to applying rules. Rule of marking traffic for priority is simple, mark traffic as trusted as close to devices as you can. And most phones usually have its way to mark traffic as CoS 5, so if you trust phone's CoS markings - it is easiest way to implement QoS on LAN (And on LAN usually you have no congestion - so usually QoS is not needed for LAN. And also this is why I said tagged traffic from phones is better CoS (802.1p) is implemented in 802.1q (tagging). There is QoS mechanism for layer 3 (DiffServ), but it is not actually done by phone, so you need to manually mark traffic as criteria on which QoS will later prioritize traffic.). But when traffic leave your network rules are changing since inside your network you have much more throughput than WAN connection has. So, on WAN you need to prioritize voice traffic to other type of traffic that is forwarded from your network (this means a lot of traffic is simply dropped - usually it is best to drop tcp traffic).

PS
At first moment as I read question I thought that you have problem with voice traffic in your office between phones. Later .........  much later .....  I realized that that maybe I don't have good viewing angle, and maybe problem is appearing only when WAN  traffic is involved. After that, when knowing that problem is happening only when calls leave your office solution was obvious.
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