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Computer wont start after installing internal mobo usb header extension cable

Posted on 2014-11-27
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Last Modified: 2014-12-03
Hi techs, I installed an internal card reader, but the internal usb cable wouldnt reach the header on the board so I had to get an extension cable.  I thought I connected it correctly but the computer wont pwr on.  If I disconnect the cable, then it will power on again so Im doing something wrong with the cable.  The ext. cable is tough to figure out b/c it has four free connectors instead of one on each end.
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you!
Mark88
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Question by:Mark O'Brien
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70 Comments
 
LVL 94

Assisted Solution

by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 72 total points
ID: 40469171
Either try to post a diagram of the ends, or (much more preferably) get a single purpose cable with single end points on each end.  Then use the latter.
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469178
The rep at Microcenter found the cable for me.  I dont think they have anything else
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LVL 94

Expert Comment

by:John Hurst
ID: 40469179
See if they can tell you which are the appropriate ends to use. You may need to try a different source for a cable.

You may even need to try a different reader made for your machine.
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469185
0
 
LVL 35

Assisted Solution

by:Kimputer
Kimputer earned 143 total points
ID: 40469186
I guess you are lucky the computer starts, because with the 4 connector headers, it's quite easy to short-circuit your motherboard (including smoke from the south bridge chip).
The proper way to connect it is. find the CORRECT USB HEADER!! (it says so on the PCB board).
It's 2 rows, 5 pins and 4 pins. To the side where it's symmetrical (2 pins), starts the 5V power, then Data-, then Data+ and last is ground (with the upper row, one pin is unused).
Now how to figure out which is which on the card reader ? That's a bit tough to say. Usually the connecters are marked with what I said (power, -, +, ground). If not, there are also standard colors used (in this order, from the symmetrical side: red, white, green black)
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469188
The reader is already installed and it was not easy to do it.  I hope I can figure this out.

- Also, did trying to pwr on the computer while it would not power damage anything?
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LVL 35

Expert Comment

by:Kimputer
ID: 40469189
As you've shown the picture just now (before I finished the post), the order was already correct it seems. It just means you have to connect it so the red connects to the first pin on the side where it's symmetrical (2 pins, not the side where it ends with only one pin).
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LVL 27

Assisted Solution

by:Dr. Klahn
Dr. Klahn earned 71 total points
ID: 40469191
The most likely answer here is that the cable is reversed somewhere between the motherboard and the card reader.

USB motherboard headers are 10 pins, two rows of five, with one corner pin removed.  Many USB header connectors, however, do not have the corner pinhole filled so it is easy to get the connection reversed.

Some devices such as card readers also have only five pins of the ten, so it is even easier to reverse the polarity of the cable.  Add in that some manufacturers use whatever cable is available without regard to the USB standard color code and it can be a mess.  See pcpartsandcables page on this.

It's also possible that the cable is plugged into something that looks like a USB header, but is not.  Candidates here include Firewire/1394 headers and front panel headers.  1394 headers look exactly like USB headers.  See the image below (cf. computerhope.com):

Headers
Finally, it is possible that the card reader itself is defective.  If it is shorted somewhere the motherboard won't come up, which is what you are seeing.  Connect the reader directly to the motherboard without the extension to check this out.

If you have a picture of the card reader's cables it will be helpful to figure out what is going on.
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469193
When I disconnected the ext. cable and powered on, I got a bios error that told me to choose the last known good.
I hope I didnt short anything out :(
0
 
LVL 94

Expert Comment

by:John Hurst
ID: 40469198
Disconnect all the cables and remove the card. Now start the computer to see if it runs, or if there is now a hardware issue.

If no, put the card back in. I don't really recommend using the wrong cable, but if you must, make sure it is oriented correctly.

I would be inclined to remove the card and leave it until you can get the correct cable for it.
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469212
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469217
There's the cable.  Also, I removed the reader from the bay and connected it to the board directly and it works.
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LVL 94

Expert Comment

by:John Hurst
ID: 40469220
So the card and computer are OK. You really need to get a correct cable if you can. Otherwise you need to sort out the pinouts and determine which to connect.
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469243
Dr Klahn, so you mentioned about shorts.  How do I know if I broke the board?  

Anybody look at the pic?
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LVL 35

Assisted Solution

by:Kimputer
Kimputer earned 143 total points
ID: 40469245
You can't always tell if you shorted it out or not and if your motherboard is damaged or not. Also, some shorts are severe (whole PC is dead), some shorts only affect the USB function). Maybe in your case, it wasn't a full short, and no permament damage has been done. The only way is to test the computer for a while, and also the USB ports.
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LVL 94

Expert Comment

by:John Hurst
ID: 40469247
The picture is just a picture of a cable (the one I looked at) and does not help with pinouts.

Your computer (your other post) is ancient and getting a modern card into it may be troublesome.
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469262
there's no card being installed
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LVL 94

Expert Comment

by:John Hurst
ID: 40469267
Sorry - it is a header.  Still old machine, new cable may be troublesome.
0
 
LVL 35

Expert Comment

by:Kimputer
ID: 40469297
As I already explained much earlier, the cable is correct and standard. I already told you about the colors before I even saw the picture.
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469304
Oh I see it now Kimputer.  This board has two usb headers.  I have that part.  I just dont know how to get the pins in the right connectors.
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469305
Im firstly wondering why the extention cable has two separate cables cabletied together!
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469347
wow, too many colors on these connectors!  I have no idea...........
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LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:10023
ID: 40469355
Check continuity in the cable with a meter...just pin the terminal to get your leads.
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40469467
Am I using both cables for the reader and the header?
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LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40469711
"... Also, I removed the reader from the bay and connected it to the board directly and it works. "  ==>  Okay, now look very carefully at the pins on the reader, and be CERTAIN that when you connect it with the extension they pins are being connected in the same order as when it's directly plugged in to the header.

Note that the reason your extension cable has two sets of extensions tied together is to allow you to extend both of the ports on that header.   Most likely you're only using one of the ports, so you don't really need to use both of them -- you should be able to tell that by looking carefully at the plug from the reader.    If you're not sure, use both extensions, but as already noted be SURE that you're plugging them in consistently -- and be CERTAIN that you're plugging the reader into the correct set of pins so that electrically the connections are identical to when you plugged it directly into the USB header.
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LVL 92

Assisted Solution

by:nobus
nobus earned 71 total points
ID: 40470060
also, note that the usb header has a single pin at one end - that one is NOT used
make sure you plug the extender cable such that the wire colors correspond !
in your mobo manual, you'll find normally an USB header layout, - in the front panel  connectors section
post the mobo model - then we can guide you exactly
0
 
LVL 35

Expert Comment

by:Kimputer
ID: 40470218
I explained several times already. The colors on the cable in the pic ARE correct (standard). So put the red pin to the header on the side where it's symmetrical (2 pins, not the one with only one), there's only one way to put it where all 4 pins are connected (horizontally, not vertically). Your cable is meant for two devices (just as a header is meant for two devices)
So here it is, the USB header

00000
0000

x0000
x000

Align it so that the x is the red pin, that's all!
0
 
LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40470264
in case you need it, here the pinout of the usb header :
u
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40471701
The cable they sold me has 8 pins, and the header has 9
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LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40471714
i said before that the single pin is not used - pin 5 on the drawing
but you must connect the black wire to grnd -  so be sure not to invert the plug; then you short out +5V
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40471736
So there would not be any loss of functionality wth a missing pin?
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40471747
The reader has these colors:
Black Green White Red
Green Red Orange Orange Blue
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LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40471768
Forget the colors !!

Think about the physical connections.

The reader works fine when you plug it into the USB header.

Note that the wire that's plugged into the 5th pin on the row of 5 isn't used -- as already noted, there are only 4 wires actually used in a USB connection.

Now install the extensions so that pins on the reader are connecting to exactly the same pins they were plugged into when you directly connected it.    The electrons moving along the wires don't care what color they are !!
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40471788
Why does the reader have 9 pins if only 8 get used?  Wouldnt they have block #5 too?
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LVL 94

Expert Comment

by:John Hurst
ID: 40471792
Your computer is quite ancient if I recall correctly, and it is also possible that the cables today do not accommodate equipment that old.
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40471809
The case is old, mobo is 4/5 years old, so new
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40472087
So there would not be any loss of functionality wth a missing pin?
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40472094
So I plugged in the reader like you guys said and it worked!  I did a couple restarts to test it and the mouse froze and the computer shut off.  Some really odd video issues going on too, and I hope I didn't blow this $250 card.  I tried three times to turn it back on but it wont boot.  :(  So I disconnected the header cable and tried again and it starts now and for 20 minutes now it hasn't shut down.  

I wonder if I blew that usb header?
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40472099
"... So there would not be any loss of functionality wth a missing pin? "  ==> There's no "missing pin".    Note the USB header pinout shown a couple of posts above -- pin 5 is labeled "NC" ... which means there's nothing connected to it.    Why your reader has a wire to it is a good question, but the pin has no function except to serve as a "key" so you can't plug a USB plug into the header incorrectly.

Are you CERTAIN that you have the cables installed so that all of the connections on the reader are identical to what they were when you had it plugged directly into the header?
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LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40472107
Just for consistency, I'd connect the two cables as follows:

USB+5v  -  Red
LDM1     -  White
LDP1      -  Green
Gnd       -   Black

USB+5v  -  Red
LDM2     -  White
LDP2      -  Green
Gnd       -   Black

Then be CERTAIN that you're connected the other ends to EXACTLY the same set of pins in the cable from the reader that they would be connected to if the reader was plugged directly into the header.    Note that this means your reader will have one wire that's not connected to anything.
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40472109
Yes, I connected the extension cable on the board same as to the reader - as in a parallel connection.
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40472110
* Forgot to mention that the reader's pwr indicator light stays on even when the pc is shut down, which I thought was odd too.
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LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40472114
The power indicator simply indicates that the USB port is still powered when the PC is turned off.    This is likely an option in the BIOS ... or, if you're putting the PC into Standby (sleep) mode instead of powering off, is controlled by Windows' power options.
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40472149
Should I reconnect the reader again and see if it hangs/shutsdown the computer?  Should I try the other usb header?
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40472249
If you reconnect it, be CERTAIN that you have the wires connected to the correct pins -- as we've outlined several times above.    You could try a different header if you want, but I doubt that will make any difference.   Just be sure it's a USB header -- not some other interface (e.g. IEEE-488).
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40472250
... You could also try connecting the reader directly to the header just to be sure your problem isn't a defective reader that's causing problems.    If it works okay like that, it should certainly work fine with the extension cables you have.
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LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40472262
if you're not sure, let someone with more knowledge help you, or take it to a shop - they'll help you out fast
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40472517
I am certain its usb and that its connected correctly when its connected.   Anyone know why the computer shuts off or why the mouse and keyboard stop responding?
0
 
LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40472525
because you shorted some signal, or power lines
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40472611
Do you have the problem if the reader is plugged directly into the USB port (without any extension) ?

If so, you have a defective reader.    If not, then one of the extension cables is bad OR you have it connected incorrectly.
0
 
LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40472615
it seems the reader is ok, since it works when directly plugged
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40473099
plugged reader back directly into header agan and pc has not hung up yet after 3 hours.
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40473249
I know you said you checked them, but TRIPLE CHECK that you're connecting the SAME pins from the header to the SAME plugs that were plugged into the header when the reader was directly connected.    Note that nothing should be connected to the plug that was connected to Pin 5 of the header.

As I noted above, if this doesn't work, then either you've made a mistake in the wiring, or you have a defective extension cable.
0
 
LVL 70

Assisted Solution

by:garycase
garycase earned 143 total points
ID: 40473259
... This will fix either of those issues (mistake in the wiring or a defective cable):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3Ft-1m-10pin-Male-to-Female-USB-Internal-Motherboard-Header-Extension-Cable-Cord-/331309829884
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40473694
That is for a 10 pin.  This header and reader is 9
0
 
LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40473830
if you insist - clip off a pin then
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40473836
Oh I see.  Didnt know you could do that.
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40474207
"... That is for a 10 pin.  This header and reader is 9 " ==> NO.   Your header is a 10-pin socket that only has 9 pins.    The extension will work just fine.
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40475025
why in the world would they put 9 wires on their connector?
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40475535
You're worrying this to death.    You have already shown that the reader works fine when plugged directly into the header;   so just get a new extension and resolve this once-and-for-all.    Why they put on wire on a pin that's not used is indeed a good question ... but it's also irrelevant.    Somebody apparently just felt since there were 9 pins on the header they should have a wire going to each of them :-)
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Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40476241
I fixed this.  I installed the reader on the lowest 3.5" bay instead where I wanted it on the top 5" bay.  :(
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LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40476322
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40476336
Nobus, I already have one.  The 5" bays are too far from the headers
0
 
LVL 10

Expert Comment

by:10023
ID: 40476367
We don't have continuity
0
 
LVL 92

Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 40476636
then buy cable extenders..
0
 
LVL 70

Expert Comment

by:garycase
ID: 40477005
"... I fixed this.  I installed the reader on the lowest 3.5" bay instead where I wanted it on the top 5" bay.  :(    " ==>    I wouldn't say "fixed" ... I say you worked around it by eliminating the need for the extension.

... the little $3.68 extension I linked to above will fix it, so you can install it where you want it and it will work just fine.
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40477042
lol
0
 

Author Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40477887
3Ft 1m in the case?
0
 
LVL 70

Accepted Solution

by:
garycase earned 143 total points
ID: 40478019
Clearly longer than you need ... but very easy to simply wrap a bit to make it easy to route.    I've used many 1m cables internally over the years, whether SCSI, IDE, SATA, etc. ... and it's easy to be neat with a few small cable ties.
0
 

Author Closing Comment

by:Mark O'Brien
ID: 40478787
Thank you all for the assistance with this.  Im going to keep the reader in the 3.5" bay for now.
0

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