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Cuban Embassy on US Soil?

Posted on 2014-12-18
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¤ Your Opinion on change to relations with Cuba?



For Optional Review, rather that soundbites or repeating a talking head - the source material:

Transcript: Obama’s remarks on U.S.-Cuba relations
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/transcript-obamas-remarks-on-us-cuba-relations/2014/12/17/08366538-8612-11e4-9534-f79a23c40e6c_story.html - December 17, 2014
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Question by:SunBow
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WaterStreet earned 20 total points
ID: 40508282
The Soviet Union collapsed 25 years ago, and we have diplomatic and all kinds of business and trade relations with China.

What good has 50 years of isolation been for the Cuban people?  A lot of good could come from this change for both countries.

It's time for a new approach, IMO.

Is America not big enough to stop snubbing and to figure out how to have a relationship with one of its closest neighbors?

If nothing else, as the saying goes, keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
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by:SunBow
ID: 40509292
Rand Paul Breaks With Rubio and Bush Over Cuba
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102281468#. - Leigh Ann Caldwell - 20 Hours Ago [extract]
Jeb Bush 'actively exploring' Presidential run
Bush called it a "misstep" that "undermines America's credibility
And Rubio, the son of Cuban immigrants, vowed to ..block progress on policy..calling the policy "disgraceful."
Clinton said .. "the best way to bring change to Cuba is to expose its people to the values, information, and material comforts of the outside world."
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by:dhsindy
dhsindy earned 12 total points
ID: 40511888
What about what the American-Cubans think.  Seems the old people who remember the ruthless takeover are against this normalization.  While the young of these people have no memory to properly judge.

I think it is just an Obama ploy to try to do something to raise his public opinion out of the gutter.

I am old enough to remember the US media supporting Castro's revolution - I remember vividly reading a Life magazine article - and, thinking we were doing the right thing by supporting his revolution.  Then, instead of installing a democracy as promised.  He backstabbed the US by installing communism and socialism.  Trading one dictator for something worse.  There are many people who have not forgotten.  I think the US administrations need to wait another twenty years or so for those memories to die off more completely.
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by:WaterStreet
ID: 40512042
I think I responded in the wrong thread.

What me worry.
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by:leonstryker
leonstryker earned 11 total points
ID: 40515639
CUBA's system will collapse, its just a matter of time. The reason it has not, is that the people of CUBA are trapped in the us vs. them mentality against a much more powerful neighbor. They feel that their backs are against the wall and they are too proud and too scared to surrender. By greater interaction and familiarity, they will come to crave things US has to offer. They may not embrace a fully Democratic system (if there is such a thing), but they will surely evolve into one which is a lot more acceptable to us.

This has happened in Russia, Vietnam and China. All much more staunchly un-American foes at one time. I am certainly not an Obama supporter, but this was a right move, kind off like what Nixon did with China ;)
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by:SunBow
ID: 40515862
Or maybe more like a Rand Paul than a Ted Cruz. I admit I tend to lean more towards Obama having read long ago his recreational preference of playing of poker, so I can retain imagination of cards held closely - this be example (of the 'news' not leaked or pre-guessed). Poker is a far different game than golf or checkers.

I differ a bit on the 'collapse', in that I think more that the us vs them mentality is US citizenry vs Cuban leadership. All getting older, getting put to pasture. The swap of the brothers has already begun internal evolution, although the pace, the rate may be less than some would desire. The brothers are likely to be attempting to address what is to happen when they are gone, at least off-stage.

I thought I heard or read somewhere that US does not have her 'friends' participating in the prior embargoes, is essentially going it alone. Anyone know? If so, or not, I've dismay at the 'righteous' suggesting US would fare better by doubling up on embargo. um, like a for instance? If a something is not working, then it would be a wise move to try something else rather than underscore it. Unless goal is really to keep issue an ongoing problem.

With much dismay from those who favored Bays of Pigs, and want some US help to decide who runs that country and how they do it - I'd say get with it, it ain't a gonna happen, they are not going to just get handed a piece of the action - get over it, move on.

While part of question is trade relations, agreements, embedded somewhere was ... some behind scene deals regarding prisoner exchanges. I'd heard something about a spouse making objection. Huh? I later searched and did not see it in recent news, perhaps for the better.

Methinks best parallel is Viet Nam. And before that Japan. Some place both among top friendlies to USA. I was aware 'Nam relations improved, looks like I missed by how much it improved. Reasonings regarding Japan more documented/history. Still strange similarly, that for Germany. Didn't that lead to some suggestion, tongue in cheek, that to improve economy goal should be to attack USA and lose promptly? Maybe N Korea made insufficient review of 'facts'.

Now, back to original question.

On embassy? With who else is there none, oh, North Korea. IMO a different critter, that.

Oh, wait, this is a MQ, not really desiring any podium here, just towards getting some opportunity for comment if not dialog, will try to clam it <shuddup>.

So signing off the comment with question update. Did anyone notice news item of guy who been prisoner for like 20 years, comes home to find he still has same wife, um, wife is like 8 1/2 months pregnant ............
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by:dhsindy
dhsindy earned 12 total points
ID: 40515946
Maybe we should build the Cuban Embassy on a barge - park it in NYC.  That way we could tow in wherever as the political winds change.
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by:SunBow
ID: 40516079
Maybe like me, when considering title, were hearing initial political naysayers that they were against building the Embassy in Miami, or any where in Florida. NYC known to use barge for outbound trash. NYC often cited as preferred LZ for Puerto Ricans, not so for Cubans.
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by:tliotta
tliotta earned 7 total points
ID: 40517524
Relations have always tended to improve after U.S.A. (or other western or any other) government backs off from trying to control what goes on in a foreign country. Viet Nam is a very good example.

We had too much involvement in Cuba with Trujillo before Castro. If we had opposed Trujillo from his beginning, Castro possibly never would have taken the direction he went. (IOW, it was our fault.)

Our backing of Viet Nam ruling group before 'the war' got fully underway was how that mess started. We should've followed France's exit by letting the Vietnamese know that we wouldn't continue the status quo. Instead, we made the same mistake that was made with Japan much earlier and with others.

But Japan and Germany both don't quite fit with others like Viet Nam in the aftermath in terms of resentment towards interference.

Japan had been solidly defeated as well as being nuked (twice). It was a nation in shock such as had never been imagined before. It was already in a case of massive 'Future Shock' due to its rapid transition from isolationist, closed society to major player on the world stage. Getting slapped around the way it was, forced the whole nation to reevaluate itself.

The younger generations were feeling some natural rebellion to ways of older generations. Chances to take part in the modern world were welcomed by them. They didn't mind so much being encouraged to adapt to new ways. At the same time, many others were allowed to continue with old traditions, so there was less dissatisfaction with possible interference.

And Germany was the defeat of a dictator rather than support against internal opposition. That is essentially the opposite of Viet Nam, Cuba, Iran and others. Further, the partitioning of Germany helped to deflect any concerns of interference, at least in West Germany.

Regardless, the attitudes of a given population can generally be seen to correlate with how the U.S.A. (or other) government interacted with that nation in previous decades. And changes in interactions can be seen to correlate with changes in attitudes. ("As ye sow...")

Tom
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by:SunBow
ID: 40539283
Wrapping: Seems here that I missed out on comments regarding Cuban trade sanctions by other countries. Be that as it may, selecting 'best' as:

> What good has 50 years of isolation been
- It just seems such a no brainer, che long gone an the brothers soon to depart, who are to be next?

> CUBA's system will collapse
>  they will surely evolve
- I more agree with the latter part

>  Cuban Embassy on a barge
- add casino?

> Relations have always tended to improve after U.S.A. (or other western or any other) government backs off from trying to control what goes on in a foreign country
- enough said.
- else choice becomes more of an empire vs rebel
- (among main mistakes in Middle East)

Hispanics of Cuban Origin in the United States, 2011
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2013/06/19/hispanics-of-cuban-origin-in-the-united-states-2011/ - BY ANNA BROWN AND EILEEN PATTEN
An estimated 2.0 million Hispanics of Cuban origin resided in the United States in 2011,
..
Immigration status. Nearly six-in-ten Cubans (58%) in the United States are foreign born compared with 36% of all Hispanics and 13% of the U.S. population overall. More than half of the immigrants from Cuba (52%) arrived in the U.S. in 1990 or later. More than half of Cuban immigrants (55%) are U.S. citizens.
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by:SunBow
ID: 40539296
Closing, thanks to all. Nothing that easy resolving politics.
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by:tliotta
ID: 40543940
Re ID: 40517524 Arrgghh! Batista! Not Trujillo. Hard to remember the differences.

Tom
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