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Cleveland: Does this look like a 'hit' (Tamir Rice)?

Posted on 2015-01-08
Medium Priority
Last Modified: 2016-11-28 [comments included]

Does this look more like a 'hit' or a model for raising children?

- er, was that a 'clothesline'?

Cleveland hands over probe into shooting of black child carrying pellet gun - Thursday - Jan. 8, 2015 - By The Associated Press - Friday, Jan. 2, 2015, 9:48 p.m.
The investigation of a Cleveland police officer's deadly shooting of a 12-year-old boy carrying a pellet gun was handed over Friday to a county sheriff's office in an attempt to make sure it's evenhanded, the city's mayor said.
Surveillance video released by police shows Tamir Rice being shot less than two seconds after the officer's patrol car stopped near him. Officer Timothy Loehmann told Tamir to put his hands up, but the boy did not, according to police.

Video (long Slo-Mo): Police handcuffed Tamir Rice's sister after shooting
Officers performed no first aid on wounded boy, video shows - UPDATED 5:53 PM EST Jan 08, 2015
Tajai Rice, runs toward her fallen brother and Garmback immediately pushes her to the ground. Garmback and another officer are then shown handcuffing the struggling teen and placing her in the back seat of Loehmann and Garmback's patrol car.
The sheriff's department is one of several law enforcement agencies that passed on hiring Loehmann.
Question by:SunBow
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LVL 27

Assisted Solution

tliotta earned 1600 total points
ID: 40543969
I can't tell anything useful from the videos I've seen. One thing I noticed from reports is that Tamir Rice was 12 years old but 5'7" and 195 lbs. It wasn't clear that he was a 'child'. (At least one other report claimed that the pellet gun had no red "replica" markings to indicate that it was a toy.)

I have no good way to decide about what happened. If what I've read is accurate, it doesn't seem much more than a very unfortunate tragedy. I might also be disturbed by parents who allowed a boy to take such a toy to a public place.


Accepted Solution

bergertime earned 400 total points
ID: 40544624
I agree with Tom.  What I don't understand, is why does something like that divide us all instead of unite us all into preventing it from happening.
LVL 27

Assisted Solution

tliotta earned 1600 total points
ID: 40552568
I'm not at all convinced that anything is significantly different from how things have gone since humans became human (and possibly before that).

That is, I do think that such incidents may be becoming relatively less frequent. ( relative terms, keeping population rises and crowding, etc., in mind.) I believe that general tolerance is slowly becoming more widespread. But unfortunately news is traveling much more quickly from and to many more places. Even just 20 years ago, it's almost certain that none of us would've heard of Tamir Rice (unless we lived in Cleveland) nor Ferguson, Missouri, nor George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin nor...

The consequence is that we hear of things happening much more often with no context to keep us in mind of 'the big picture'. If such news items show up nowadays every few weeks or months, doesn't it mean they're becoming more common? We hardly ever used to hear about such things!

Maybe it's a good thing though. Without the increased discussions, there is less social pressure to reconsider old prejudices.

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LVL 24

Author Comment

ID: 40581167
[Abandoned (14 Days)]
LVL 24

Author Comment

ID: 41903676
While more would be appreciated, the time to respond has been sufficient. It appears that the legal right to open carry was not addressed above. It would also have been nice to make it more clear whether those in uniform can distinguish weapons or weapon types, and why available alternatives are not pursued. Such as tear gas,  even a club or fist. This is also part and parcel of others holding pellet guns in places permitting open carry. Am also unhappy that media does not seem to distinguish pellets from BBs from water, or right to carry issue, openly displayed or not.
 Comment by: tliotta 015-01-12
 > disturbed by parents

 Agreed in that parents should be responsible and accountable for acts of their children.

 bergertime: 2015-01-12

> divide us all instead of unite us all into preventing it from happening

 The division already exists, has for long time

 also, long term habits are difficult to change, as in quote:

       You cannot train an old dog to learn new tricks

While some may declare "non-lethal" they would be incorrect, although the issue is not really the weapon of choice. There's this relative who....

   tliotta: 2015-01-15

 > I'm not at all convinced that anything is significantly different from
 Agree with contrast of reality vs reportings

 > hardly ever used to hear about such

 Rather 'view' it. Sample quick issue of 'suicide' by hanging

 see also habits within Western Catholicism where they used to have better methods of use of 'non-disclosure' such as regarding misbehavior of men of the cloth...

 > there is less social pressure to reconsider old prejudices

 Alternatively have recently been informed of Maricopa County where abuses continued to escalate to point where citizens declared they have had enough

  > nor Ferguson, Missouri,

 then again there's

  Donald Trump Cabinet: Anti-Black Lives Matter Sheriff David Clarke Eyed For Department Of Homeland Security


Clarke has spoken out vehemently against the Black Lives Matter social justice movement and called for "pitchforks and torches"
LVL 24

Author Comment

ID: 41903693
First to confess to be uninformed of changes here, including options for awarding points.

Recollection has it that TA was limited to 50 pt then defaulted to 50 permitting reduction. As such had offered some thought of value, less expectation for large attendance, no desire to delete (retention can demonstrate lack of interest) and no desire to have to award lots of points even after assigning low grade.

Had noticed pts to older q's could be increased

 Then asked a Q in Pol and it showed up as 500 without approval option, and no provision to identify search terms

 Noting that answers here were provided to originally a 50pt, that was also the max permitted back when

In review of the above, changing from 50 to 500

With further review of expert commenting and resposes to those, awarding as follows:

 bergertime    1
 tliotta              4

(each receiving more that the tendered)

For selecting best it is very difficult when each comment has appeal. Selecting bergertime for the

LVL 24

Author Closing Comment

ID: 41903725

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