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What are IT services prices in different countries?

Posted on 2015-01-10
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As often not standard question mates :)

What are standard IT service price in Your country (with an example what kind of service)?
- for a customer (so B2B price between IT company and other  non IT Company), per hour, per day, etc
- for a consumer (B2C, price between IT company and a user/consumer)
- for IT Pro employee (price for an IT Pro employee per month, per week at an IT company or other company, so this is standard employee salary)
- for a IT Pro freelancer for non IT company (so price that not IT companies pay directly to IT Pro freelancer)
- for a IT Pro freelancer as an outsourcing (so price that IT companies/HH companies/other pay directly to IT Pro freelancer for a service to other non IT companies)
- between IT companies (so this some sort of IT outsourcing, B2B between 2 IT companies)
- for Outsourcing (hard and too general question but maybe You know some price examples??)
- what is a standard profit margin for IT Hardware and Software in your country for IT Company?

All prices are per IT Pro person.

And
Do someone have an idea why prices for sort of IT services in your country not goes all the times lower than xxxx?
Why I'm asking? Because in my country (Poland/EU) the situation with IT Pro services prices (profit margins for companies for IT Services) are so strange and fatal now (most prices between IT companies goes from normal 600-800USD/day 6-12 years ago to very very low like 100-250USD/day) that I want to understand the mechanism of a stopping lowering prices in different (mainly west) countries.

I see lot of offers from UK and see the prices for freelancers from 400-600GBP/day
In Poland 6-12 years ago IT Pro services prices between IT Companies ware 600-800USD/day, now they are very very low and close to 100-250usd/day what I not fully understand (and don't agree !!!). Also in Poland profit margins for a HW/SW sell 10-14 years ago was 15-20%, and now drop to 0(even minus)-3%, why minus? because if U offer best on the market price legally (after all discounts and get 0% profit) U will not win most public (gov) tenders !!!! yep, such problems are normal in Poland last years, so because I'm really not happy of that.

So because of that strange situation with IT Services pricing and IT company profits margins (for HW/SW sell) and my own consulting and small cloud services in Poland I like to know what are the pricing range for Your country, be as more detailed as U can, and THANK YOU for sharing such not easy to get knowledge !!!

best regards
NTShad0w
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Question by:Dawid Fusek
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by:Neil Russell
ID: 40541730
"...very low and close to 100-250usd/day"

I dont know who your customers are but i wouldnt get out of bed for 100USD per day!

If you are a skilled consultant/IT Firm then you can still easily command in excess of 500-800USD per day for the right jobs.
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40541738
"I dont know who your customers are but i wouldnt get out of bed for 100USD per day!"
I also, but 95% IT companies in Poland do it exactly for such "price", and because of that there are no place for higher prices and because of that I stop serving IT services (and looking for a new opportunities) in Poland because that price not cover any costs if You do it legally.

so because of that I post this long question.

Why in UK, US and other west countries IT Pro consultation prices may stay at a normal level 500-800USD/day and not goes lower??? What "market" or what law rule it? Surely there is always the possibility that someone will assume ltd company and be cheaper and even much much cheaper (as it happens in Poland), why it not happens in west countries mates????!!!!

regards
NTShad0w
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by:Neil Russell
Neil Russell earned 63 total points
ID: 40541744
Lots of people form Ltd companies and offer to do the job cheaper BUT the big non IT companies soon learn that "MOST" of these "Cheap" IT Companies are exactly that. CHEAP!

We have a saying here in the UK...

Good NO Cheap and Cheap NO Good!

If a company gets 5 tenders in at 500-800 USD range and one at 120USD range then its a fool who goes with the 120.

Sorry if poland is full of foolish companies that believe that cheap is good value.
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by:gplana
gplana earned 250 total points
ID: 40541751
In Spain a normal hourly price for an IT freelance is about 35-40 euros. But of course you can find IT freelances for just 20 euros/hour or even less, but I would doubt about his skills.

A company can charge 50-100 euros / hour.

I put prices in hour because I think is more clear, because for me dayly prices are not clear (how many working hours has a day ?).

I know hourly prices in UK are higher than in Spain, but also the life cost is high. A friend of mine said that salaries should be measured in beers, not in money. :)

Hope it helps.
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40541759
OK, so that may be a part of a problem.

Here in PL, most tenders (I think than more than 95%) are public/gov tenders and evidently gov institutions don't learn nothing, they learn how to make huge bureaucracy and spend as low money as possible on any tender without look for any quality, because they (officials) think (if this is thinking at all) that everything can be done by bureaucracy agreements rules (to receive a good quality product) and eventually not paying nothing for a tender at all (because quality is not enough), yep, it happens so often, and it's evidently one of part of that problem, but not all.

Second I think is that in PL we don't have too much bigger polish and also international companies (than 100-200 employees) and that small companies bought nothing or almost nothing so there is really hard to sell anything to private companies because there are not lot of them..:(( and if there are no such bigger private comapnies in PL what is the hell that  big companies in PL?? the answer is GOVERMENTS, there are lot of governments institutions and even government companies that have 50-100 and even sometimes 250k employees (users), yep, hard to believe but life here looks like that, and only there U can sell with a public tender (as B2B) and there service and hw/sw margin prices are so low !!!!

I have a rich friend that have a ltd company and impossible (illegal I think) prices for server HW and from 3 years ago he start to take some EU Public tenders... and the offer prices for some EU public tender when he starts then looks like this (from last):
5. 2.7 mln eur
4. 2.5 mln eur
3. 2.4 mln eur
2. 2.1 mln eur
1. 0.8 mln eur (yep, it's his company offer)
And as I observe it ware mainly hardware supply and some services tender/-s, and when I asks why he not rise a price to close to rest of a companies... he respond that he have on it 250-300% margin so don't see need to rise a prices!!!! so I still don't understand that thinking but it looks like that, and if Polish companies like he will start to expand for international markets... I'm sure that they will try to done same shit like here in Poland, and this is point where I really don't understand and really I'm not a person that even born in PL and unfortunately still live (and try to make some consulting services business) in PL don't have possibility to do it right, legal and even possible because the consulting prices here drop so high that when someone want do it legally it's impossible.

And mate, not have to be sorry, I know (I think that too) that lot of polish ltd companies owners are really foolish (n some way) and don't have any or enough knowledge about prices for a good professional service and not pay they subcontractors or pay only a fraction of that they should to pay (which was established), etc

regards
NTShad0w
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40541766
thanks gplana for sharing,

1 day - I mean 8h work time

So yes it sometimes better to give the prices in hours but it then we meet the problem that if service is short as a 1-2 hours it sometimes not worth moving from a bed if there is no minimal hours limit, I have for example with one company contract for minimal 2 hours remotely and 4 hours onsite, and they have probably 20 freelancers and asks everyone each time that have some problem or something to do for a 1-4h service and when I gave a price like 30usd/h they stops giving me any tickets because they said that I'm totally too expensive (2 times and more that others...:L), so if others are 2 times less expensive that it mean that they have prices like 15USD/h so probably 120USD/day (if they don't give a "discount" because of longer ticket...).

and how I can dill with this?? :P

life costs in PL are as I checked 2x less than in UK but any HW/SW and most IT Training prices are little bigger (because we have 23% of VAT in PL and UK have as I remember 19% of VAT).

regards
NTShad0w
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by:gplana
ID: 40541823
Then why don't you consider to move to UK?
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40541876
"Then why don't you consider to move to UK?"

There are a lot of reasons mate. The short history looks like this
1. I'm a Pole but I always be a very good man, never still, never cheat, never use other people and then I start my company 13 years ago, it slowly starts to rising and starts made really good profits (like for a company that is in fact still  self-employment company with sometimes renting another 8-10 IT Professionals for some projects) and for a Poland at all (close to 200k usd/year), and it was so good for maybe up to 2011, then the crisis hit Poland and the earnings accidentally drops 3...then 5 and then 10 times (in 3 years)!!!! yep, it was in fact a disaster for me, but...
2. but when bad months/years come I starts to open some new services and looking for a new tenders and eventual customers and business opportunities, and have hope (and some money) that everything will come back to normal... but as we can see it not came back to normal at all and the IT services prices here are still absurdly low, it's really hard to found any company that want's any service, and if they want they want so easy cheap services than I will not use more than 1% of my knowledge to do that (or just to sell them HW/SW with 1% profit margin) so it's definitely not for me, and of course not for that price and the bad think was that money slowly ended because it's really hard to switch from earning 200k usd/year with spending 150k usd/year to earn 20-25k usd/year and spend... 80-100k usd/year so easy anybody can math that costs are much higher than earnings...:(( what can't take long...
3. I'm not a person that likes and feel good to move to any other new place (even in the same country), it's a fact, hard to fight with it, it's possible of course but not very easy for me
4. I have a lot a lot of business contacts in Poland, and also I know several millionaires here so in theory business opportunities for me here are much higher than in other countries (for first 5 years in new country probably) and it's hard to move my a....s to another country and start everything form ZERO...
5. also it's hard to move probably 2 tons of hardware to another country, yep it's better to sell it but here comes another problem, it's unprofitable to sell anything which is old IT server side because the real price one can get is much lower than it stays for him when it's working and usable by him...:((
6. I ware in UK 4 times for a total 2 months and there are a lot of things that I don't like there (rain, women, home architecture, left hand drive, religion extremists), so it also the psychological problem
7. I'm not an English native speaker and I think that it will be a problem for first 1-2 years in UK to got normal IT Pro job because of that simple fact, additionally in my cv I have mainly working for my own company which will be not so good "references" for start in the UK I think, isn't it?
8. I don't know anything of a IT business side (or Freelancers work) in the UK and not sure who I can asks for it...

so, yes, I consider to move to another country, probably Canada or New Zealand, eventually to Czech Republic, and totally eventually to UK but it's not so easy as U can see mate.
If someone can help with that (start as a IT Pro freelancer, self employment or ltd company in another country), I will very be glad of such help of course.

best regards
NTShad0w
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by:gplana
gplana earned 250 total points
ID: 40542013
Ok, it was just an idea. Anyway, I think that on a lot of countries things have changed, and what we earned before is not what we earn now. I think (and expect) that better years will come, but for now I think we have just to survive or reinvent ourselves.

In your case, my suggestion is to study new opportunities and try to take benefit of them.
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE) earned 187 total points
ID: 40542063
The Cyrus  Consultants Ltd Daily Charge Out Rate is $2,500 a day, for a single consultant, to attend a project on site, or troubleshoot, complete due diligence etc

A man day consist of 6.5 hours, in the project plan. That excludes travel time to site, expenses, stay over, flights etc

Long term projects and tenders vary.

freelancers and contractors, which in the UK, run at between £350-£800 a week.

or £30 to £55 an hour (maximum).

The maximum, is for Developers and Database Administrators, Windows OS and VMware vSphere, are about £350-£400 a week.

Top VMware Experts, are about £450-£500 a week.
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40542128
thank U for very good answer Andrew,

yep, prices from IT company to other non IT company are as I see in UK on good range, hmm so in Poland it's something about 10-20x lower... :P heeeh, no comment, I know a consultants ltd company whos serve a consultants to dell huge projects in poland (projects starts from 2mln usd) for... 220usd/day (10-12h, I know because I ware one of that consultants and earn 200usd/day.... but I was too expensive :P).... heeeh

But I don't understand one thing here,
"freelancers and contractors, which in the UK, run at between £350-£800 a week."

so how many hours are in the week (5*6.5...?) and why it looks like too less like for UK standards because with this price it 18k-41k GBP/year which is rather not so much, and is that prices for freelancers are nett or gross?

and then
"or £30 to £55 an hour (maximum)."

so how many hours have a week? 5*6.5 ??? so it should be 975-1787 GBP/week, so hourly charge is so bigger (2.5x) than weekly? so here from hours charge it is something like 45k-83k (not include 30 days of christmas and weekends).

so from 2.5x-2x, (when we compare houry charge and weekly charge for freelancer) is that correct Andy?, and tell me that it is nett or gross??

In Poland freelancers have almost same price like a ltd company, even sometimes bigger than ltd companies if one is a real rare expert.

regards
NTShad0w
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by:Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE)
Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE) earned 187 total points
ID: 40542156
so how many hours are in the week (5*6.5...?) and why it looks like too less like for UK standards because with this price it 18k-41k GBP/year which is rather not so much, and is that prices for freelancers are nett or gross?

A Standard week in the UK is between 36 and 40 hours a week, common is 37.5 hours. All contracts are very different. Although contracts are offered in a weekly average rate, most contracts are based on filling in a timesheet based on hours worked.

The difference is because the Agencies which control the Market and Contracts, are using high weekly rates as a selling point, when advertising the Contract.

All contractors in the UK, must deal with their own Tax and National Insurance contributions. It's there responsibility. Not the Agencies or Client they are working for. Also there is another issues with something called IR35, you'll have to google it, it's complicated....(it's about Disguised Employment, and Contractors working under their own Ltd companies to avoid Tax, because they are doing the same job as an employee.).

Contracts are usually, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months renewable, very rarely 12 months at a time.

Also, Clients, tend to have a fixed budget for the contractor, based on average number of hours a week, based on the project, e.g. 37 hours, so if you have a contractor working 44 hours a week, he's going to burn through his budget quickly, and if on a 3 month contractor, will be up before 3 months, and then let go.

So these are GROSS figures, and Tax and NI would come off those.


In Poland freelancers have almost same price like a ltd company, even sometimes bigger than ltd companies if one is a real rare expert.

Not like it is here in the UK, because a Company should have a better pedigree and support, that a single person!
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by:gplana
ID: 40542184
I think salaries it depends a lot of the kind of work and the skills that the person have.
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ID: 40542192
A salaried UK person and UK freelancer/contractor are very different....

they may only be employed for 3 months out of 12 months, so you cannot extrapolate, 3 months contract work, and assume that is the salary for 12 months.

and by the number of Agencies and emails we get daily, there are many contractors out of work, looking for project work, industry has changed in the UK, from the 90s to current climate.

IR35 took care of that in April 2000!
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40542743
VERY good point Andy,

I read something about IR35, and think that for me and general Poles it's not a big problem (from only contractor side of course, not sure from Agency or Customer Company) because in my first opinion it's easy workaround for that strange problem where officials want to make our life harder, one need to create a ltd company with 2 different mates, then with 3 shareholders ltd company in my opinion nobody even officials can't get nothing to such contractor because he share a company with 2 different shareholders and may work as U want and earn money not for him but for a company and divide the profits by 3, we have in Poland (sorry but Poland is one of most bureaucratic country in the Europe) same or worser problems with tax officials here and we have a lot of ideas and workarounds how to fight with them, but for a single person it's sometimes rules not to overcome and it's really makes a problem for our mates and small companies here.

I starting to understand market and prices range in UK, and I think quite similar it is in other west countries, VERY THANKS Andy !!!

best regards
NTShad0w
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40551314
Any other country's IT Services prices mates???

regards
NTShad0w
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by:Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE)
Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE) earned 187 total points
ID: 40551363
US - $200
China - 1000 CNY
Japan - 20,000
India - 10,000

off the top of my head..

hourly rates
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40551387
@Andy,

VERY thanks mate (again)... but are there any other IT mates on this forum but You...? :P

so this is hourly or daily? and this is rates from B2B yes? (so IT company for non IT company)...?


so in US there is 200usd/h and in UK 45GBP=68USD/h ???
or

2500USD/6.5h=384 USD/h  ..??

regards
NTShad0w
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ID: 40551409
VERY thanks mate (again)... but are there any other IT mates on this forum but You...? :P

I'm sure they are, they'll be just waking up!

Those are hourly rates, we have seen, in Countries we have worked in!

so in US there is 200usd/h and in UK 45GBP=68USD/h ???

Yes a big difference, there seems to be more respect for IT Disciplines in the US, if the UK, you get a man or all trades!
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by:Dawid Fusek
Dawid Fusek earned 0 total points
ID: 40551436
hmm.... woow

so let me convert it all to USD:

UK 45GBP=: 68USD/h (GBP/USD 1,52:1) - it's still little strange mate, I think it's a price for a freelancer not for a B2B, and rest prices are between B2B (IT Company for non IT company)
US - 200USD/h
China - 162USD/h (USD/CNY - 6,2:1)
Japan - 171USD/h (USD:JPY - 117:1)
India - 161USD/h (USD:INR - 62:1)
Poland - 15-50USD/h (USD:PLN 3.2:1), depends that public (15USD) or private (50USD) project


regards
NTShad0w
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ID: 40551467
Sorry, those figures are contractors, or freelancers. (same figure comparison as £30-£45 max) in the UK.
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by:gplana
ID: 40551535
At the end I think is the market who fixes the prices. That's all.
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40551537
ok, strange but ok.

thanks a lot Andy,

hope it help me, and other folks that may want or not to work or make business in some of these countries.

Anybody else have something to add mates?

regards
NTShad0w
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by:gplana
gplana earned 250 total points
ID: 40551559
Yes, it's strange, but every market seems to have its own rules, which are permanently changing. I think with globalization these differences between countries will become lower.
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40551566
lower... yeees, very possible and lower will become also our (IT Pro) earnings...:((

regards
NTShad0w
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by:gplana
ID: 40551581
I spoke about the differences between IT prices on countries, not about the IT prices.

But you are right, the IT prices are getting down probably because now there are a lot of IT staff on other countries like India or China, which aren't before, and they offered IT services at a very low prices, so prices here can go down.

What is amazing for me is that in countries like UK prices still are high.
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40551624
"What is amazing for me is that in countries like UK prices still are high."

I don't think thy are high when You look for UK prices...

also the BIG problems with IT are:
- we do lot of things remotely, we don't need to be onsite in 90% of our job... so if not need someone on site why to pay for someone from US/UK/GR much more and not earn someone from india or china, or even poor poland (yep, last 2 years there are lot of IT Outsourcing companies from UK and US here with really dumping prices/salaries for IT Professionals), and on site do only this what is really needed to do onsite... so good to know that it's not a problem for us to manage 10 thousand's of PC, hundreds of servers and switches)... so we just kill each other with such remote possibility
- additionally if we are so remote and global market is getting so open (globalization) a lot of poor folks from india, china or other poor countries will do much more than we for much less...:((( and there are really a lot of them, I know, I have 2 friends in china,... if there is a good job opportunity there there are hundreds of thousands cv/resume for single job offer!!!! same is in india. In Poland we have lower scale but still for one good IT offer (in international company) there is hundreds or even sometimes thousands CV/resume (I work for Unisys 10 years ago and for 1 single Unix Admin offer we receive in 1 week 5620 cv/resumes  !!!!!!!!, sure 90% of them goes to trash but still it's really lot of "competitors").
- we do everything to make every business even our run faster, cheaper and more automatic... so we just do a very bad work for every employee, not only IT, that's a fact, I fight with that with some projects, it's a really huge problem, not always seen by especially young IT stuff.

regards
NTShad0w
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by:gplana
gplana earned 250 total points
ID: 40551681
Yes, I mostly agree. Hopefully some kind of jobs still needs the person on site. And also some companies prefer this option, but I think this is changing for most of IT jobs.

I have contract sometimes indian or chinese people for punctual works. But sometimes the problem is their skills are not as good as they said. I wtill think that the quality has a price.

I think this is more a discussion than a technical question, so I wonder if you can split points between all people who has contributed to this discussion.
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40551825
sure gplana,

it's a discussion, I'll also ask moderator that I may have more points for this topic.

regards
NTShad0w
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40551895
"I have contract sometimes indian or chinese people for punctual works. But sometimes the problem is their skills are not as good as they said. I wtill think that the quality has a price."


I think it's depends about culture of some country/people, and of course of a market where they live.

If you rent indian or chinese people you have to always take into consideration that in their culture lying and extreme workers competitions conditions (more than 1.3 billion people in each of this country!!!!) is normal, I know some indians (from India) and 99% they say is a lie, not matter on what topic, no matter than you can check it or no, they dont have a problem when lie is discovered, just starting talking on another topic or saying same thing over and over, so it's a culture.
In Poland for example, most of IT Professionals (true IT Pro) don't know what is a lie at all, sure it does not apply to All Presales and even single Seller/Account Manager's and most IT Managers, but IT Pro is really clear of lying, and here it's not a problem at all that someone will have in cv/resume something that he have no idea what it is, but it's normal for indian mates (sorry mates, it's true, it's your way of life) to have close to 100% of their cv/resume full of things that they not see ever on their eyes. Same like in Poland the situation is with IT russians and in most cases ukrainians, but up to technical level, managers, account managers and directotrs lie everywhere they can, same in PL.

So that's probably most of a problem with low quality, low educated/skilled "cv paper professionals" from india or china.

best regards
NTShad0w
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by:Neil Russell
ID: 40551912
@Dawid Fusek

I find your comments above to be racist and offensive and certainly do not have a place on experts exchange!
I work with some of the most skilled professionals on the planet and they come from China, India, Indonesia and others.

Where somebody comes from does NOT make them a lier!!
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ID: 40551916
@Dawid Fusek I think 500 points is the max, but you could continue in the Groups!
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40571983
yep Andy, moderator inform me that 500 is a max :((

ok, hmm, any other countries mates...?

regards
NTShad0w
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by:gplana
ID: 40572182
Yes, 500 points is the max.
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40580493
yep I see, moderator inform me too :((

so ok we may close this topic mates
thanks all for info.

best regards
NTShad0w
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by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40580583
and Neilsr,

"I find your comments above to be racist and offensive and certainly do not have a place on experts exchange!
I work with some of the most skilled professionals on the planet and they come from China, India, Indonesia and others.

Where somebody comes from does NOT make them a lier!!"


Mate, I think you are misunderstood, You are 1st person in my life that calls me/my comments a racist. I think you dont get an full idea, I'm a person that work as a IT Pro but also rent lot of different IT specialists and pay them good, really good for a market where I live (and where they work), and I don't looking for a skin color, language or nationality, but what I looking deeply is that this person doing his job fine/professional and not serving his services for too much and especially too low prices (I'm different than 90% of Poles :P), if he is good and still serve it below market prices I inform and train him about realities and result what happens if he and other mates will serve costly IT services (because of still training, fast new technologies changes, products changing, updates, upgrades, complexity, heterogenous, new requirements etc) for a very low price, much below a market ranges, in mostly they agree.

So fighting for good pensions/salaries for people and professional work/services is not a racist mate, even I may go over some mates from your country, I do the same about everyone from every other and also my own country (Poland/EU) and I'm proud of fighting against everyone that is too cheap for work he done or for skills he officially shall present to the world/customers (via cv/resume, certs, recommends and lies).
I work with lot of different cultures IT Pro, most of them ware real IT Pro, lot from India, some from China, Bangladesh, Turkey, Russia, Ukraine, there ware some very good Arabs (don't remember country) and Jews, and that wasn't a problem, because they don't lie and they know the prices in the country they work and not lowering them, and of course doing a well professional job (what i love). I only don't like and don't accept onces that build their career on lies, and that also depends not only of singles but also on the culture, and that is not racist, I'm from poor country mate, I may be a "victim" of racism too, but I do everything to be professional and selling my professional services for a reasonable prices, so because there was this discussion.
If you call someone a lier, thief, cheater or just stupid, it doesn't mean you are a racist, if one deserved for such term of course.
Knowledge is the power, use it well, and know that your decisions will also make changes to other people's life.

kind regards
NTShad0w
0
 
LVL 5

Author Closing Comment

by:Dawid Fusek
ID: 40588265
thanks all for your comments and time
I think we had some good discussion here
and that let me give some light and think about my next move.

kind regards
NTShad0w
0

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