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Access 2003 crash windows 7 sql server 2005 back end

Posted on 2015-01-22
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Last Modified: 2016-05-23
Hello,
We have been experiencing sporadic crashing within our access 2003 front end linking to SQL 2005 server.

Can anyone work with us? I can answer any questions.

This happens more frequently on some days then on others, for one user 10 times and others once or twice; each may or may not be doing the same type/amount of work.
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Question by:sterlingalston
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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What does the application event log show on the station?   Are you getting an error within the app?  Is this a new setup?   Recent changes?

Jim
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by:sterlingalston
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I have two events:

The first one at 4:12:01

System 

  - Provider 

   [ Name]  Application Error 
 
  - EventID 1000 

   [ Qualifiers]  0 
 
   Level 2 
 
   Task 100 
 
   Keywords 0x80000000000000 
 
  - TimeCreated 

   [ SystemTime]  2015-01-22T21:12:01.000000000Z 
 
   EventRecordID 25492 
 
   Channel Application 
 
   Computer 9V6S8Y1.bgw-llc.com 
 
   Security 
 

- EventData 

   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   c0000005 
   0003d4e1 
   63c 
   01d0367b3a93687f 
   C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\OFFICE11\MSACCESS.EXE 
   C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\OFFICE11\MSACCESS.EXE 
   4def1d19-a27b-11e4-8593-a41f728920be 

Open in new window


The second one at 4:12:07

- System 

  - Provider 

   [ Name]  Windows Error Reporting 
 
  - EventID 1001 

   [ Qualifiers]  0 
 
   Level 4 
 
   Task 0 
 
   Keywords 0x80000000000000 
 
  - TimeCreated 

   [ SystemTime]  2015-01-22T21:12:07.000000000Z 
 
   EventRecordID 25493 
 
   Channel Application 
 
   Computer 9V6S8Y1.bgw-llc.com 
 
   Security 
 

- EventData 

   1955717858 
   1 
   APPCRASH 
   Not available 
   0 
   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   c0000005 
   0003d4e1 
    
    
   C:\Users\wilson\AppData\Local\Temp\5989595.cvr C:\Users\wilson\Local Settings\Application Data\Programs\fc.mde C:\Users\wilson\AppData\Local\Temp\WER6633.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml 
   C:\Users\wilson\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\AppCrash_MSACCESS.EXE_a4cd4d35eac3a3f6954830fa35d4eda6ebc63e41_10737ef0 
    
   0 
   4def1d19-a27b-11e4-8593-a41f728920be 
   0 

Open in new window

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by:sterlingalston
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More Log information.

9:59:28AM

- System 

  - Provider 

   [ Name]  Application Error 
 
  - EventID 1000 

   [ Qualifiers]  0 
 
   Level 2 
 
   Task 100 
 
   Keywords 0x80000000000000 
 
  - TimeCreated 

   [ SystemTime]  2015-01-23T14:59:28.000000000Z 
 
   EventRecordID 53247 
 
   Channel Application 
 
   Computer 3RL7YV1.bgw-llc.com 
 
   Security 
 

- EventData 

   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   ntdll.dll 
   6.1.7601.18247 
   521ea91c 
   c0000005 
   00010edb 
   1650 
   01d03716047f3d95 
   C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\OFFICE11\MSACCESS.EXE 
   C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll 
   6cfb36c0-a310-11e4-95ed-7845c4254ea2 

9:59:37AM

- System 

  - Provider 

   [ Name]  Windows Error Reporting 
 
  - EventID 1001 

   [ Qualifiers]  0 
 
   Level 4 
 
   Task 0 
 
   Keywords 0x80000000000000 
 
  - TimeCreated 

   [ SystemTime]  2015-01-23T14:59:37.000000000Z 
 
   EventRecordID 53248 
 
   Channel Application 
 
   Computer 3RL7YV1.bgw-llc.com 
 
   Security 
 

- EventData 

   3884913748 
   1 
   APPCRASH 
   Not available 
   0 
   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   ntdll.dll 
   6.1.7601.18247 
   521ea91c 
   c0000005 
   00010edb 
    
    
   C:\Users\wilson\AppData\Local\Temp\3253806.cvr C:\Users\wilson\Local Settings\Application Data\Programs\fc.mde C:\Users\wilson\AppData\Local\Temp\WERAC17.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml 
   C:\Users\wilson\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\AppCrash_MSACCESS.EXE_6ea26186fa3dba81c5e31e24cf95d2b4b019c5_14d5cef2 
    
   0 
   6cfb36c0-a310-11e4-95ed-7845c4254ea2 
   0 


10:37:58 AM

- System 

  - Provider 

   [ Name]  Application Error 
 
  - EventID 1000 

   [ Qualifiers]  0 
 
   Level 2 
 
   Task 100 
 
   Keywords 0x80000000000000 
 
  - TimeCreated 

   [ SystemTime]  2015-01-23T15:37:58.000000000Z 
 
   EventRecordID 53249 
 
   Channel Application 
 
   Computer 3RL7YV1.bgw-llc.com 
 
   Security 
 

- EventData 

   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   ntdll.dll 
   6.1.7601.18247 
   521ea91c 
   c0000005 
   00010edb 
   12d4 
   01d0371d52ff67c8 
   C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\OFFICE11\MSACCESS.EXE 
   C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll 
   cdfff740-a315-11e4-95ed-7845c4254ea2 

10:38:01AM

- System 

  - Provider 

   [ Name]  Windows Error Reporting 
 
  - EventID 1001 

   [ Qualifiers]  0 
 
   Level 4 
 
   Task 0 
 
   Keywords 0x80000000000000 
 
  - TimeCreated 

   [ SystemTime]  2015-01-23T15:38:01.000000000Z 
 
   EventRecordID 53250 
 
   Channel Application 
 
   Computer 3RL7YV1.bgw-llc.com 
 
   Security 
 

- EventData 

   1256443792 
   5 
   FaultTolerantHeap 
   Not available 
   0 
   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4B4F9CFD 
   ffffbaad 
    
    
    
    
    
    
   C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\AppData\Local\Temp\FTHE937.tmp\fthempty.txt 
    
    
   0 
   ce0e3f80-a315-11e4-95ed-7845c4254ea2 
   0 

Open in new window

System 

  - Provider 

   [ Name]  Application Error 
 
  - EventID 1000 

   [ Qualifiers]  0 
 
   Level 2 
 
   Task 100 
 
   Keywords 0x80000000000000 
 
  - TimeCreated 

   [ SystemTime]  2015-01-22T21:12:01.000000000Z 
 
   EventRecordID 25492 
 
   Channel Application 
 
   Computer 9V6S8Y1.bgw-llc.com 
 
   Security 
 

- EventData 

   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   c0000005 
   0003d4e1 
   63c 
   01d0367b3a93687f 
   C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\OFFICE11\MSACCESS.EXE 
   C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\OFFICE11\MSACCESS.EXE 
   4def1d19-a27b-11e4-8593-a41f728920be 

Open in new window

- System 

  - Provider 

   [ Name]  Windows Error Reporting 
 
  - EventID 1001 

   [ Qualifiers]  0 
 
   Level 4 
 
   Task 0 
 
   Keywords 0x80000000000000 
 
  - TimeCreated 

   [ SystemTime]  2015-01-22T21:12:07.000000000Z 
 
   EventRecordID 25493 
 
   Channel Application 
 
   Computer 9V6S8Y1.bgw-llc.com 
 
   Security 
 

- EventData 

   1955717858 
   1 
   APPCRASH 
   Not available 
   0 
   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   MSACCESS.EXE 
   11.0.8321.0 
   4b4f9cfd 
   c0000005 
   0003d4e1 
    
    
   C:\Users\wilson\AppData\Local\Temp\5989595.cvr C:\Users\wilson\Local Settings\Application Data\Programs\fc.mde C:\Users\wilson\AppData\Local\Temp\WER6633.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml 
   C:\Users\wilson\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\AppCrash_MSACCESS.EXE_a4cd4d35eac3a3f6954830fa35d4eda6ebc63e41_10737ef0 
    
   0 
   4def1d19-a27b-11e4-8593-a41f728920be 
   0 

Open in new window

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Expert Comment

by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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OK, so it's always a memory access violation and always at the same address, which is probably a bug in Access that your tripping over.

When this occurs, have you noticed any commonality in the operations being performed at the times?

Is this one station doing this with the app or several?

Is their one copy of the app shared?

Jim.
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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BTW, is this new behavior on an existing setup or one your just moving too?  Any recent changes in the environment since it started?

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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Which line do you see it as a memory access violation?

Also, the setup is relatively new.  Users were switched over to Windows 7 machines from XP while still working on Access 2003, causing all types of errors.

Some reports would run on some machines, while others wouldn't with the 'same' setup.

Not aware of any recent changes, but updates are standard and haven't affected the application in the past since the switch.  Always breaking out a form/ changing a query in the report seems to fix the issue, but none of this was happening before Windows 7.

Also, the ntdll.dll in the System32 directory is a different size on my machine from the user's(?) if this is of any help.
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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c0000005 is the error code for a memory Access violation.

Are the users sharing a single copy of the FE or no?

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
Comment Utility
By sharing? You mean accessing the same mde or using a local copy of the same mde from another source?  They are all using the same copy of the mde and it's copied from a single source; we create an mde for people to copy to their indivdual machines.
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by:sterlingalston
Comment Utility
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
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by:sterlingalston
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Guess not?
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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Not sure how I lost track of this.

By the sharing, I meant a single copy located on a share, which it sounds like you are not doing.   Only other thing I might suggest is a rebuild of the DB in case there is some corruption.

Hopefully though at this point you are past this problem...

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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Not really, but we started looking at recordsets that may remain in memory and setting them = Nothing in VBA code.

I just (as of 10 minutes ago) did this for one major user and we'll wait and see what they say.  These memory errors have been a problem since Windows 7.
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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<<Not really, but we started looking at recordsets that may remain in memory and setting them = Nothing in VBA code.>>

  While that's always a good idea (object clean-up), I would be surprised if they were leading to the crashes that your encountering.

 When you modify your code, make sure you do it like this:

SetParams_Exit:
400       On Error Resume Next

410       rstemailtemplates.Close
420       Set rstemailtemplates = Nothing

430       qdfPassthrough.Close
440       Set qdfPassthrough = Nothing

450       Set PB = Nothing

460       Exit Sub

SetParams_Err:
470       varErrorMessage = "Unexpected Error in OCS_SENDMAIL::SETPARAMS - Error: " & Err.Number & " - " & Err.Description
480       Resume SetParams_Exit

End Sub

Open in new window


  Anything you open (.Open) you should .Close and then set object variables to nothing.   It's important to do both operations as each does something a bit different.

Jim.
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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Couple other things to check/do:

1. Make sure the DB's are not being virus scanned.
2. Make sure you turn off all the Name Auto Correct.
3. Make sure you turn off compact on close.
4. Turn off the Office Clipboard.

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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The object clean up is being done exactly as you noted.  Not sure about them being scanned, but probably not.  I will need to inquire about whether the last 2 are being done, but they probably are.

Assuming these are the case ... are here known bugs in Access that can cause it to crash without programming being the issue? Are there work-arounds?  Happy to send you any code you want.
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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<<Assuming these are the case ... are here known bugs in Access that can cause it to crash without programming being the issue? Are there work-arounds?  Happy to send you any code you want. >>

  Yes but "known" is the key word there; many are not.  Microsoft has never been great about publishing all the bugs addressed in service packs, so you never really know what's a bug or not unless it affected a lot of users and they specifically document it.

  It's like the object clean-up; VBA is supposed to do it, but everyone knows it doesn't and cleaning up makes Access apps run smoother, but it's never been documented.

  With that said, what your experiencing is unusual.   Access has always been fairly stable, usually doesn't out right fault, and A2003 was a pretty good release.

 Which BTW brings up another point; do you have all the service packs installed?

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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We do have all service packs installed.
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by:sterlingalston
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Crashing just happened again.  This is only for particular users.  After a few weeks, this has happened, yet again.  

This time: "You can't exit now.  If you're running a Visual Basic OLE or DDE.."

Is it possible the MDE can be corrupted without necessarily any notification when compacting/ repairing?  We seem to notice that these errors happen when working in forms, and not making changes, but looking for information, but it prompts a save for no apparent reason.
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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<<
Is it possible the MDE can be corrupted without necessarily any notification when compacting/ repairing?  
>>

Absolutely.

<<We seem to notice that these errors happen when working in forms, and not making changes, but looking for information, but it prompts a save for no apparent reason. >>

 Given that, you may want to:

1. Create a new MDB and import everything from the old DB except the form or report in question.

2. Use the hidden Application.SaveAsText in the old DB:

SaveAsText acForm, "Form1", "C:\MyFolder\Form1.txt"

 To save the form

3. The use Application.LoadFromText in the new DB:

    LoadFromText acForm, "Form1", "C:\MyFolder\Form1.txt"

That will clean-up the object entirely as your basically creating it from scratch in the new DB.

 After doing that, create a new MDE.

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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Tried doing this yesterday, however, it got stuck importing on MSysAccessStorage table. I was importing all tables from the old DB into the newly created one and it was importing Msys tables as well.  How can I get rid of it importing, aside from simply not selecting 'Select All'. Maybe create a copy of this database, delete the msys tables, and import everything else?

Also, so the LoadFromText re-creates objects from scratch?  Does this mean any code behind the form is preserved, formulas, names of controls, etc.?

I'm aware that maybe you can answer this, but either way I'll have to test.

Thanks again!

- Matt
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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<<How can I get rid of it importing, aside from simply not selecting 'Select All'. >>

 You can elect to not show hidden and system tables in options.   When you do that, you can select all.   If you don't, then you can select all and then manually unselect each.

 Whatever you do, you should not be copying or manipulating the system tables in anyway.

<<Also, so the LoadFromText re-creates objects from scratch?  Does this mean any code behind the form is preserved, formulas, names of controls, etc.?>>

 Yes, it's everything, unless there is a problem with the form.  For example, if the VBA project is corrupt, you may not end up with the code.

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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OK.  I will test.  This is a pretty complex system and I'm wondering if something like this can be completed for All Forms and Reports/ whether or not this may be a viable solution or something we can do once every few weeks for maintenance.

Seems like Access can be very handy, but also a pain to deal with.
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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<<This is a pretty complex system and I'm wondering if something like this can be completed for All Forms and Reports/ whether or not this may be a viable solution or something we can do once every few weeks for maintenance.>>

 There is code floating around to do an entire DB.   I don't know that I'd do it routinely though.

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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Also, have you heard anything about increasing the CPU priority of msaccess.exe?

I read somewhere that this will help for applications still using the JET engine in Windows 7.
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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That would be a band aid for the true performance problem (and note that I deleted you link as it's not allowed).   Anyone that is boosting a process to real time status is asking for trouble.

ACE (JET) did have a performance problem when 64 bit OS's first came out and was running on multi-core CPU's, but that has been patched, or can be addressed by setting MaxBuffers to 65535.

As part of it's garbage collection loop, JET would sleep if it was blocked.  Problem was, some threads would get scheduled onto other cores.  If that happened, it would take a terribly long time to recover and become responsive.

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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I guess a band-aid will do if it's coming from an MS Engineer (who recommended increasing priority).  I do need to research the issue, but after changing the priority to high the user excitedly said the application hasn't closed the entire day!

Another thing we tried was calling Microsoft, who basically snuffed us because they stopped support for this in July of 2014. However the thread (deleted) documented the entire thing just as we had it and (or probably would have gone thru had Microsoft bothered talking to us.  I have unprofessional words to say to them for that, among other things).  We're 'married' to Access 2003 at this point.

Can I keep it open until use this in a .bat for other users?  

Thanks again and have a nice day!

- Matt
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by:sterlingalston
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Oh, we are all on 32-bit systems and MS did release a patch for 64-bit, but for 32-bit as far as I know.  How about I just copy and paste the thread here, and not the link?

Anyways, we'll try this with the same user tomorrow and slowly increase until we see it working for everyone else.
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by:sterlingalston
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Changing the priority today did not make the difference.  Wondering if this may have to do with MaxBufferSize on the machine.  I've attached the specs of the machine in this post below:

wilson-pc-specs.PNG
Currently, we have code to set this: dbMaxBufferSize, 512; however, there does not seem to be a MaxBuffer in the registry keys.

wilson-pc-specs2.PNG
Also, did you want the thread I looked at for the high priority settings suggestion?

Thanks,

Matt
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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Matt,

 Here's one setting I'd like you to try:

1. Start, Right Click Computer, select properties.
2. Click "Advanced System Settings" off to the left.
3. Select the "Advanced" tab.
4. Click on "Settings" under the performance section
5. Select the "Data Execution Protection" tab.
6. Select "Turn on DEP for all programs and services except those that I select"
7.  Add MSACCESS.EXE to the list.

Then OK everything and reboot.  See if that helps.

 Also, for testing for the day, turn off any anti-virus product.  You may want to do these two things separately.

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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Looks like I can't select either of these options...no admin rights as well. And, either way, it looks like this isn't configured yet(?).

Capture.png
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by:sterlingalston
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Not great, but better news.  The user has a new machine, but is getting different errors every time; all different places now.

image002.pngimage001.pngimage004.pngimage003--2-.png
Images 1,2, and 4 seem to happen the mde doesn't copy to the user's machine correctly.  This is usually fixed, but having them do it again.  However, the 3rd one is the same one we've been getting before.

Is it possible network issues when copying over the mde can cause corruption?  We don't experience these errors in the VM development test server we work on and also, on my local machine (in close proximity to the servers), I've never gotten these errors. I sincerely suspect it's issues beyond our programmatic control, but there're coding workarounds (eg 'DoEvents', 'me.refresh', etc.).

Don't want you to be alone in this, so feel free to invite any other Experts, but these errors have been happening since Windows 7 (32-bit) and our office re-location.
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by:sterlingalston
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Correction, the 2nd and 3rd are new. Which leads me to think it's a network connectivity issue simply because copying over the mde again works.  The user is away, but I would like to find  a way to see if it copies over fully (eg size comparison, with the main copy and the one on the user's machine).
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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<<Looks like I can't select either of these options...no admin rights as well. And, either way, it looks like this isn't configured yet(?).>>

No admin rights then even to read the setting.

<<Images 1,2, and 4 seem to happen the mde doesn't copy to the user's machine correctly.  This is usually fixed, but having them do it again.  However, the 3rd one is the same one we've been getting before.>>

<< The user is away, but I would like to find  a way to see if it copies over fully (eg size comparison, with the main copy and the one on the user's machine). >>

 Copy a DB using Winzip or some other compression utility.   That will give you a CRC check on the file and a copy you know for certain is good.

<<Is it possible network issues when copying over the mde can cause corruption?>>

 Absolutely.  I've seen bad NIC's, NIC drivers, cables, and ports cause a problem.

<<but these errors have been happening since Windows 7 (32-bit) and our office re-location. >>

 Sounds like a bad network connection.  You can do a basic check with ping:

1. Open a CMD prompt.

2. Type Ipconfig/all.

3. scroll to the top, of the result, then scan down till you see "Default gateway".

4. Now with that address, type

PING  <address> -t

 after about five minutes of running, press CTRL+C to stop and see if any packet loss is listed.  If so, then you have a bad connection.
 
  Time's shows should be less than 10 milliseconds and on a local LAN should be <1 ms also.

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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Thanks, Jim.  I've been out of the office for almost a week, but I'll try these steps and update you.
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by:Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE)
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OK.

Jim.
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by:sterlingalston
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OK.  I had the user run a bat file that outputted these information.

--

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.2:
    Packets: Sent = 6786, Received = 6786, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 10ms, Average = 0ms
Control-C

--

This doesn't look like  a network thing, then?  Trying to convince IT to get a full version of Access on his machine/ switch computers to get where the code breaks.  I might also inquire into compression software that recognizes whether or not the file has been completely copied over correctly each time.
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Jim Dettman (Microsoft MVP/ EE MVE) earned 500 total points
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No, doesn't sound like packet loss...

is there any anti-virus running?   Double check and make sure it's not scanning the DB files.

as for the compression software, anything like WinZip or tar utility will do the job.  All of them compute a hash total when compressing the file, then compare to the hash when decompressing to ensure no errors in the process.

 If it unzips fine, then you know you have a valid file.

Jim.
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