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Siemens dishwasher SE54433EU/37

Posted on 2015-01-27
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Last Modified: 2015-02-03
Hi,

I would like to repair my old Siemens dishwasher SE54433EU/37.

I have the user manual and the exploded view.
The control is done with Renesas microcontroller and one ST chip MOSFET drivers + some relays.
I would like to know which power signals go to water valves and I hate to trace the wiring.

Can anybody help with the electrical diagram, service/maintenance manual?
5600043502.pdf
ExplodedView.pdf
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Question by:viki2000
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by:Tiras25
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I cannot read in German.  But is there a circuit diagram?   Normally attached to the back of the appliance.
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by:viki2000
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There is nothing on the dishwasher itself, front or behind.
I opened it partially, at least the control side where the main electrical parts are; the first page of the exploded view.
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by:Tiras25
Tiras25 earned 100 total points
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Hard to point without a circuit\electrical diagram.  However, if the "water valves" are standard solenoids then I'm guessing there are only two wires to it.  I worked on mine quiet a few times and this is what it was.
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by:viki2000
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Normally yes, it has 2 wires for most of them, even if some have 3 or 4, depending by the design and purpose of use.
In industrial field I met all kind of valves. But for home appliances most of them have indeed 2 wires.
But that's not the problem.
I can even find replacement components:
http://www.ersatzteilecenter.de/p/f/siemens/id/2/?device_brand=624&device_category_a=692&device_typenumber=SE54233EU%2F37&p=1
http://pieces-detachees.sogedis.fr/marque-SIEMENS.htm
https://www.partmaster.co.uk/siemens/se54233eu37/catalogue.pl?path=67231,183865:184051&model_ref=3835826&page=3

Anyway they are a lot too expensive.
30€ for a water valve ("ventil" in german)?
http://www.ersatzteilecenter.de/ventil.html

The problem is to find what is wrong and to find how I open and have access to different parts of it, as fast as possible, because I do not have enough time, eventually few hours during the weekend.

It took me minimum 1h to open and clean the control module section and then to put everything back:
http://kremplshop.de/produkt/22174995/237455-steuerungsmodul

Now the dishwasher works.
Then what is the problem?

It is a random failure. I hate these failures.
Sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
When the failure appears, there is no LED error indication.
The failure seems related with interruption of the normal operation by opening the door during the normal wash because I forgot to add something inside, or just interruption from power button, main switch.
It supposed to continue where it was and does not. The sequence of the operation seems lost and the program is somehow stuck. There are certain parts still activated inside, there is a noise of operation, have no idea what, but there is no water.
It is clear pointing to a water valve. I knew that from beginning.
Maybe the water valve is just stuck, but to check that I need to measure if any power goes to it. But I do not know where is placed and how do I reach it. The exploded view tells me a part of info, but I do not know how to reach it, seems impossible, everything so well closed, sealed.
It would be a lot easier to have the pin-outs, wiring diagram at least for the control module, the timer with micro controller and relais .
If I know the description of the input/output signals from control module then is easier to say if certain parts receive signals or not.
Maybe I am too lazy to take it apart on the back side where the water valves are installed.
I would prefer to know first that the signal/power goes from the control module to the water valve. Then it would make sense the effort to take it apart and really search and find a possible stuck water valve.
That's why I need some schematics, maintenance manual.
Yesterday I asked directly Siemens. Let's see if they want to sell me such info. I doubt. They usually will want to send me a technician. And I do not want that.
I was thinking that maybe the switch from the door, which it should be as input for control module, does not work proper. When I opened the control side I checked it and seem OK, but a bit old. I tested its function and mechanical lock. Still, never know.
Now the dishwasher works, but I do not know for how long time.
If I do not interrupt it during normal wash operation and I wait until finishes, then it seems that works fine. Of course before was not like that.
So, for the moment I am "afraid" to stop it in the middle of wash only to test if is still losing the sequence.
When I have the diagram and/or the service manual then I want to know what is wrong.
I found one site online which sells the maintenance manual and the electrical diagram, each one 34€, expensive!, but I am not sure if I can trust them. Sometimes you send the money through paypal and you get nothing in exchange or wrong info. They offer the info as pdf download.

http://goo.gl/c9AYgo
http://goo.gl/vWzzIY
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gheist earned 200 total points
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Why dont you call Siemens?
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by:viki2000
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I sent them an email last week and they did not answer up to now.
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by:gheist
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You can buy all the parts from them, especially in Germany.
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by:viki2000
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It is not a problem of buying the parts, as you can see from my links above.
The problem is to find what is my random error.
And for that I need the electrical diagram or /and the service manual.
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by:dhsindy
dhsindy earned 200 total points
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I have a different machine.  I would check the door closed switch (interlock) on the door.  When I start my dishwasher the Start button has a green LED that lights continuously.  If I open the door and close it the Start LED blinks and I have to press the Start again for it to continue.  Perhaps, the switch (interlock) in your dishwasher is going bad or it's mounting is loose.  I would verify the sensors are working before putting out money for expensive parts.

The past two or three things I have repaired turned out to be bad signals from the sensors to the controller.
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by:viki2000
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All the LEDs of the machine are OK, no alarm mode.
They are lit as in normal operation mode.
The interlock door switch is fine because I started the machine with open cover where all the control is, including the door switch. I tested it several times: the electrical functionality of the switch as well as the mechanical interlock which activates the switch.
The problem is just that sometimes it loses the sequence and a water valve is not anymore activated or maybe stuck.
That's why would be easy and nice to know what wire from control side go to the water valve, without tracing them by hand.
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by:viki2000
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So far no answer from Siemens directly.
I tried to call them:
http://www.siemens-home.de/produkte/geschirrspuelen
It is almost impossible to reach somebody to speak with. It is a long telephone queue.
The way how the website looks and the telephone service is organized, it seems clear that they are not willing to sell the wiring diagram.
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by:gheist
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There should be siemens parts store... Call your nearby repair shop, they must have a part, and maybe send a tech to replace it for 20€ ...
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by:viki2000
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But that's the point, I do not want a teach guy, I want to do it by myself. I want the electrical diagram.
And to replace what? Because I do not want what is wrong. It is a random failure, now is working, but it may lose the sequence once in a while.
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by:gheist
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With random failure first check factory recalls...
Then measure electric resistance for short-circuits on any cable pairs...
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by:viki2000
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1) What do you mean by "factory recalls"?
2) "electric resistance for short-circuits on any cable pairs" cannot be the cause as long as the machine works most of the time. Such failure with "electric resistance for short-circuits on any cable pairs" cannot take the machine out of sequence and make a water valve to not work.
And how am I suppose to check "electric resistance for short-circuits on any cable pairs"?
With an ohmmeter?
An ohmmeter tests with low currents and if the ohmmeter find a short-circuit or low impedance between pair of wires/cables then definitely that part will not work with higher currents as normal operation currents. It would just blow some fuses.
And what cable/wires should I check?
Random check? All?
How do I know what is at the other end to say that low impedance as the coil for water valve it has or not the right value?
A pure short-circuit would have made the machine to stop until now, especially when I shake it, as in the vibration test.
Without electrical diagram is hard to know what to measure.
And I have no time to open it up, take it apart and trace the wires to the components according with the Exploded View. Because I could, only there is no time for that.
I still try to get in touch with Siemens, different countries.
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by:viki2000
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I came across next file:
http://www.teamhack.de/download/Universalanleitung_Bosch-Siemens_Geschirrspueler.pdf

As it is described there on page 8 it is nice, only that is not my model.
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by:dhsindy
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In the instructions, it says if the door is opened after it has started heating (about two minutes after starting) up then it will not restart.  The door must be left open until it cools off first.

Could this be the problem?
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by:viki2000
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Actually no.
I tested the machine from 1 day to another and the problem was still there, no water came inside.
The door was open, dishes out sometimes, was definitely cooled down.
I let the machine sometime working 30min or 2h. It was the same.
Sometimes when I made a mechanical shock, but that was 2-3 times random and I could not reproduce it when I wanted it, it started, but opening again the door came out of sequence.
When I open and I close the door during operation, or if I push another button for another program, it has a kind of reset, initialization as reference point, I can hear the relays click-click. Well, it supposed to start the water and it did not.
I even tried to disconnect from power, wait 5min or even 30min. Couple of times worked, but then later made no difference.
Sometimes. after power off, power on, a small shock it seemed that started, but random situation.
As I said, now is working, but I am afraid to stop it during normal operation just to test if the problem i solved.
I cleaned all the PCB contacts from the controller.
Maybe the door switch has a random good operation and sometimes does not work as supposed.
Or is just a bad water valve.
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by:gheist
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I dont understand why you use 2 irrelevant topics and lock taking them out by keeping attention request open.
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by:viki2000
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I just received new info today in the morning.
A service partner from Siemens send me some technical diagrams.
It is not exactly my model, but comes close.
I upload them here for future reference.
Diagram-1.pdf
Diagram-2.pdf
Model-coding.pdf
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by:gheist
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This is English language forum....
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Author Closing Comment

by:viki2000
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A brainstorm is always welcome.
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by:viki2000
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I would have been more than pleased if someone could find the requested info in English and not in German.
But sometimes, for technical stuff, we have to be open to different languages, especially if we speak about technical diagrams, no matter if they are mechanical or electrical.
I would have had no problem if someone would have provided the electrical diagram as in pdfs above in Chinese, Arabic or whatever, even if I do not understand that.
Electrical diagrams are universal, no matter what language we speak.
If it is a foreign text around we can translate some of the words if it is really necessary.
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by:viki2000
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Ironically, today after such long time and when I closed the question, I was notified by Siemens Germany that I can purchase the wiring diagram, only the printed version, with 9 €.
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