Why can't i get this hdd recognized in bios

Hello

I have a task to replace a hard drive in a laptop.  The original hard drive still boots and functions, but is reporting SMART errors.

When i put in the brand new drive, windows setup doesn't detect it.  Likewise, it doesn't even show up in bios.  The old drive does, but not the new.  Thinking it must be a bad drive, i tried another brand new one, and it too doesn't show up.

Thinking it must be an old bios, better upgrade... upgraded the bios and the issues are exactly the same.

So, what am i doing wrong here, what else can i look at?

I've loaded default bios settings, there is no bios/hdd/supervisor passwords

Laptop:  MSI branded laptop, model MS-1681 (A6200)
Old drive: 500gb Seagate Momentus 5400.6, PN 9HH134-500, ST9500325AS, FW: 0001SDM1 (manufactured 11/2013)
New drive: 500gb Seagate Momentus , PN: F7092-G921-BE001, ST500LM012 REV.A (manufactured 2/2015)
Bios version: e1681ims VER.10C (4/12/2011)
EC VERSION: 1681EMS1 VER 4.10 (3/18/2010
CPU: i3 m=M370 2.4ghz dual core
memory:  4gb ddr3 (2x2gb)

i'm out of ideas - why do two brand new drives not show up, but the old one does?
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FocISAsked:
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arnoldCommented:
The dimentiones of the newer drives are thinner, does it include a kit to make its dimentioes match the original?
The options:
1) on two separate occasions using two different new drives you did not properly insert the drives.
2) both drives are bad.
3) the drives are unsupported by the bios.
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arnoldCommented:
You may need to use senates tools to make sure the,encryption scheme on the drive and the bios are setup.
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arnoldCommented:
Oh, before you proceed, you might want to use the seagate included/provided to clone the current drive out. Connect the new drive externally.
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FocISAuthor Commented:
I think i understand what you're saying:

- use seagate's tools to check encryption on the drive
- use seagate's tools to clone the old drive to new

I cloned the drives using Casper XP - since the original drive was fully accessible i doubt there is any encryption - all the passwords in bios are disabled, the drive is not encrypted with any 3rd party tool as far as i can tell (connecting it by usb to another machine yields full access)

Connecting the new drive to an unrelated computer via usb adapter, i can see the drive is in perfect health.  Like i said, i was able to clone the old one to the new one, i know the data is good

From SeaTools, old drive security = 0h.  New drive security = 0h
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arnoldCommented:
Just to clarify in the bios the drive is not seen of the system does not boot with the new drive?

Not sure casperXP is cloning Windows 7 which I presume that is the Os you have.

Try using the segate tools to clone the os drive onto the new.
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FocISAuthor Commented:
The OS (win7) is irrelevant, the data on the old drive was visible on a 3rd computer and was cloned successfully

The new drive doesn't boot because it doesn't show up in bios.

old drive:  bios reports sata port has seagate 500gb drive
new drive:  bios reports sata port is empty

i dont even think this laptop is capable of hard drive encryption at the bios level

the cloning and the data isn't an issue, if bios can see the drive, i can handle the rest
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akahanCommented:
I'm not familiar with this particular model, but by any chance, does the original drive have a plastic extender piece covering the interface pins, and extending them, which is "sticking" to the drive when you remove it from the laptop, and which must be attached to the replacement drive's interface pins, so that contact will be made with the socket in the laptop?

Something like this:

http://www.apricorn.com/media/faq_images/dell.jpg
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arnoldCommented:
One thing whether the drive you got is compatible with the Bios.
The model You bought is different functionally
 

Old Seagate Model number description.
http://www.seagate.com/files/www-content/partners/my%20spp%20dashboard/learn/en-us/docs/amer-lap-desk-video-guide-nov-2012.pdf
Your old drive has 512/4k sector handling while the new one is indicated as "non-intellegent".
If the BIOS of your Laptop tries to determine what drive is in and they are not "communicating" this could be what the issue is.

Your Laptop specs have the following qualified components:
http://msiwhitebook.com/product/images/QVL_MS1681.pdf
http://msiwhitebook.com/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1681-ID1 

Your new drive is not included and your experience suggests that there is something to that.

The difference in price between the one you got and the one you had is not significant.
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FocISAuthor Commented:
the drive is as far as i can tell a standard laptop sata drive - no plastic piece (interposer) necessary, the pins seem to line up perfectly.  when looking at the drives, there is no physical difference in the connector

now, regarding the difference in sector size, do you think THAT could cause the bios to not detect it?  the first thing i did out of the box with the new drive was install it, so there was no format and no sector size

looking for anything at all that i can do to make this new drive show up in bios :/
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arnoldCommented:
While most of the time the "Qualified" parts from a manufacturer is based on what is available at the time, as long as one matches the criteria the thing either works or does not.
In this case, the Seagate versions have intellegent 512/4k sector schemes.
In the case at hand, the drive is newer so it is not listed on the list which is not maintained beyond a certain point.

I get your difficulty. One option is to check with the vendor to see whether updated BIOS firmware resolves.......
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nobusCommented:
maybe updating the laptop  bios helps
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noxchoGlobal Support CoordinatorCommented:
Either the drive is not connected properly or the the is bad. Have you tested it on different machine?
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FocISAuthor Commented:
Nobus/noxcho:
I could really use your expert help here, I know what it's like to just read the title and fire off the first thing that comes to mind... But if you have 5 minutes, please take the time to really read the question and maybe even the responses

The client should be getting this back on Friday and I could really use help getting it to work
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noxchoGlobal Support CoordinatorCommented:
Even if the drive has 4K sector it must be seen by BIOS. BIOS won't see the drive if it does not spin at all. And this happens if the drive connection is loose or improper.
If you connect the same drive via USB connector to the same Laptop - does it see the drive?
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FocISAuthor Commented:
Both drives on a usb adapter on another computer are seen just fine... In the laptop, both drives spin and make the expected noises...

The distance beteween the motherboard and the bottom of each drive is identical, the connectors line up... The extra height is higher than the connector and just fills empty space above.

It sure sounds like the bios just doesn't support this almost identical drive... And I've never seen that so I'm really hoping for a magic bullet somewhere, some weird setting hidden behind a key combo or something
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nobusCommented:
on another pc -connect it to sata and see if it is seen in the bios
what pc's did you use to test it on usb?
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noxchoGlobal Support CoordinatorCommented:
Do you have another 2.5 drive of different model and size to check on this laptop?
When you boot the machine with new drive connected in Linux distro - does it see the drives? Just a thought, maybe your BIOS is so advanced that it does not show the drives.
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FocISAuthor Commented:
the new drive is visible on sata in another laptop

the even crazier thing is, on THIS msi laptop, if i connect the new drive by USB, i can boot to it from bios and windows runs fine (but slow, of course on usb)

both drives are sata II, i don't get it.
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arnoldCommented:
The spec on the drive you had deals with internally to the drive handling the 512byte or 4k sectors.  Unfortunately, the spec for the MB/bios does not include specifications that would make clear what requirements for sata controllers are and the only thing one can rely on is the qualified peripheral listed.  One often only sees those lists include processors,CPUs and Memory.  Until I saw this one, I've not seen HDDs in a non-encrypted scenario.
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FocISAuthor Commented:
Yeah i have to give up and try a stack of 500gb drives until something works.

It's so annoying to see an issue like this, i've never seen a laptop not understand a non-encrypted drive on sata, i just don't get it.  especially when the two drives are SO similar.  

no settings in bios for the hard drive details (sectors/size/lba/etc), no settings for sata ahci or otherwise, it should just work.

i expected more from a manufacturer such as MSI
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FocISAuthor Commented:
The drive must not be supported by bios, accepting this as the closest answer, even though i dont have a clear documented solution, i have to give up on it.
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