VMotion & SVMotion in vSphere 4.x and 5.x

Looking for more info regarding vmotion and svmotion approach changed in 4.x and 5.x

•      Any changes done with respect to process execution behind vmotion and svmotion in 4.x and 5.x ?
•       Any port difference  OR mechanism change while we are doing svmotion to shared storage or local/different storage?
•      When doing svmotion..What exactly start  at very first time Mirroring or Disk Copy and how each process get synchronized during svmotion ?
•      VMkernel is always used for all kind of vmotion & svmotion doing online Or Offline?
•      Use of VAAI in storage vmotion ?
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patronAsked:
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gheistCommented:
v5 allows storage vmotion of machines with snapshots
v5 allows vmotion using multiple network adapters

there should not be firewall on vmotion network. that extra millisecond just asks for problems.

generally it makes snapshot-20% , transfers all disk data -60% then it plays back snapshot and deletes original.

Yes

NO, never, that is well documented.
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patronAuthor Commented:
would need more info to understand  on svmotion backend process changes in 5.x

Role of CBT /Mirror Driver/Datamover if any?

When we start vmotion and svmotion .how exactly it is processed further in 5.x
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gheistCommented:
Datamover == VAAI (not relevant)
CBT == continuous snapshot (has huge performance impact)
Mirror Driver == continuous view of disk content to guest...

Why do you ask about vmware 5 when vmware 6.0 is out?

When you start them both at the same time - vmkernel just copies disk image to different storage and vcenter copies vmdk to other ESXi host..
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patronAuthor Commented:
will take some time to upgarede it to 6.but its good to see if there is change with respect to svmotion in 6 as well ?
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patronAuthor Commented:
Thanks for sharing this for 6, would be great if you please share the same for  DRS chnages made in 5..like how actually it start vomotion/svomtion in 5.x

when we start migration machine or datsore..what actually start and how a process synch with other ongoing processes@backened.

any port /mechanism diffrence when we migrate machine to shared datsore or to single/not shared datastore ?

and was this same in 4.1 ?

for offline vmotion/svmotion it works with managemnet port only ?
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gheistCommented:
vcenter calculates memory and cpu pressure in ESXis and moves out either little used machines or potentially heavily used machines to less used hosts. e.g in vcenter 4 it sometimes took up hopeless adventure to move heaviest machines out while they are working leading to vmotion failures all around infrastructure. v5 is better in this regard.

vcenter runs processes on both esxis, there is not much detail about what happens under the hood.

no difference - storage vmotion always uses one host that copies data from datastore to datastore.

yes, there is no big change. you can vmotion vmx7 4-> 55 and back

if there is no dedicated vmotion port vmotion uses management port
storage vmotion always copies data in same host, so it does not use any network in addition to SAN/NAS networks used to access datastore. Again in absence of dedicated storage port management ports are attempted for storage access.
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
I would obtain the following books...

please see this Article written by the Masters of DRS

Frank has written many books on VMware HA and VMware DRS... it would be worth adding them to your VMware Book Collection.

VMware vSphere 4.1 HA and DRS Technical deepdive (Volume 1)

By Duncan Epping and Frank Denneman

(http://www.yellow-bricks.com/vmware-high-availability-deepdiv/)

ISBN-10: 1456301446
ISBN-13: 978-1456301446

Written by Duncan Epping and Frank Denneman, both of whom are Consulting Architects at VMware and are perceived by the industry as Subject Matter experts on VMware High Availability and VMware Distributed Resource Scheduler.
This book zooms in on two key components of every VMware based infrastructure. It covers the basic steps needed to create a VMware HA and DRS cluster, and goes on to explain the concepts and mechanisms behind HA and DRS which will enable you to make well educated decisions. You will get the tools to understand and implement e.g. HA admission control policies, DRS resource pools and resource allocation settings and more.

On Amazon US

[Paperback]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1456301446?ie=UTF8&tag=yellowbricks20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1456301446

[ebook]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004V49JGW/ref=as_li_tf_til?tag=yellowbricks20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B004V49JGW&adid=0ED4RKK85G6ZTGTH9ENP

on Amazon UK


[Paperback]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vmware-Vsphere-4-1-Technical-Deepdive/dp/1456301446/ref=sr_1_2ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305637596&sr=8-2


[ebook]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/VMware-vSphere-4-1-technical-deepdive/dp/B004V49JGW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digitaltext&qid=1305637596&sr=8-1

Available in Europe from

http://www.comcol.nl/detail/73133.htm


They have updated this series, for VMware vSphere 5.1, and 5.5, for VMware HA and DRS, and highlight the changes. These books are called VMware vSphere Clustering Deep Dive.

http://www.yellow-bricks.com/vmware-high-availability-deepdiv/
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patronAuthor Commented:
Thanks Andrew.

let me explore it more..After upgrading my infra from 4.1 to 5.1..i have observed one common issue ie.
Svmotion times out b/w 26-32 %

i tried to look more into vmkernel logs and found some error through which i checked one vmware KB to disable VAAI
http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1033665

and strange after this i found svmotion of 700 gb  took max  3 minutes.?

so my concern here is what is difference if i disable values like ...
DataMover.HardwareAcceleratedMove
DataMover.HardwareAcceleratedInit
VMFS3.HardwareAcceleratedLocking

Will there be any difference with svmotion mechanism in both cases like before and after i made changes to values given above.

Please help me to understand, so that we can get this fixed at broad level of infra i have?
Can we do it @SAN side or if Changes required @host level?
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
I would discuss this changes with your Storage Vendor and VMware Support, if you are suffering Storage vMotion timeouts, something is not correct with your setup or SAN - it's uncommon.
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patronAuthor Commented:
Thanks a lot Andrew, now I have the solution,but will escalate this to SAN Vendor.
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patronAuthor Commented:
this was the error i was getting in vmkernel logs earlier before doing changes..

2015-05-26T16:11:08.116Z cpu41:5919261)NMP: nmp_ThrottleLogForDevice:2346: Cmd 0x83 (0x4124c41f9c80, 4751704) to dev "naa.60a98000316b6171412b4459382d4e4a" on path "vmhba5:C0:T15:L57" Failed: H:0x2 D:0x2 P:0x0 Possible sense data: 0xa 0xd 0x2. Act:EVAL
2015-05-26T16:11:08.128Z cpu41:5919261)NMP: nmp_ThrottleLogForDevice:2346: Cmd 0x83 (0x4124c28b4f00, 4751704) to dev "naa.60a98000316b6171412b4459382d4e4a" on path "vmhba5:C0:T15:L57" Failed: H:0x2 D:0x2 P:0x0 Possible sense data: 0xa 0xd 0x2. Act:EVAL
2015-05-26T16:11:08.143Z cpu41:5919261)NMP: nmp_ThrottleLogForDevice:2346: Cmd 0x83 (0x4124c01d8e40, 4751704) to dev "naa.60a98000316b6171412b4459382d4e4a" on path "vmhba5:C0:T15:L57" Failed: H:0x2 D:0x2 P:0x0 Possible sense data: 0xa 0xd 0x2. Act:EVAL


and naa.60a98000316b6171412b4459382d4e4a was the destination Data store..tried for multiple luns but always got above logs for diff destination luns ?

Please advise if this is something we can dig more into this ?
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patronAuthor Commented:
2015-05-26T16:26:10.911Z cpu42:4050518)WARNING: NMP: nmp_DeviceRequestFastDeviceProbe:237:NMP device "naa.60a98000316b6171412b4459382d4e4a" state in doubt; requested fast path state update...
2015-05-26T16:26:10.911Z cpu42:4050518)NMP: nmp_ThrottleLogForDevice:2346: Cmd 0x83 (0x4124c01fc780, 4751704) to dev "naa.60a98000316b6171412b4459382d4e4a" on path "vmhba2:C0:T16:L57" Failed: H:0x2 D:0x2 P:0x0 Possible sense data: 0xa 0xd 0x2. Act:EVAL
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patronAuthor Commented:
and then finally got timeout..like....

2015-05-26T16:26:11.242Z cpu33:5163363)ScsiDeviceIO: 3045: Command 0x28 (CmdSN 0xb09a6, World 4751704) to device naa.60a98000316b6164792b457375544948 timed out: expiry time occurs 4ms in the past
2015-05-26T16:26:11.242Z cpu33:5163363)ScsiDeviceIO: 2358: Cmd(0x4124c4252ac0) 0xfe, CmdSN 0xd26 from world 4751704 to dev "naa.60a98000316b6171412b4459382d4e4a" failed H:0x5 D:0x0 P:0x0 Possible sense data: 0xa 0xd 0x2.
2015-05-26T16:26:11.242Z cpu33:5163363)ScsiDeviceIO: 3045: Command 0x28 (CmdSN 0xb09a7, World 4751704) to device naa.60a98000316b6164792b457375544948 timed out: expiry time occurs 4ms in the past
2015-05-26T16:26:11.242Z cpu33:5163363)ScsiDeviceIO: 2358: Cmd(0x4124c07d0f80) 0xfe, CmdSN 0xd2e from world 4751704 to dev "naa.60a98000316b6171412b4459382d4e4a" failed H:0x5 D:0x0 P:0x0 Possible sense data: 0xa 0xd 0x2.
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Andrew Hancock (VMware vExpert / EE MVE^2)VMware and Virtualization ConsultantCommented:
Escalate to  Storage Vendor and VMware Support
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patronAuthor Commented:
Thanks Andrew for all you help on this...now what i need to do is either to disable VAAI or to update my HBA driver to be complaint  with min version
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patronAuthor Commented:
Thanks
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