terrypba1
asked on
VM Overkill Redux
I have some more details on a proposed system, and would greatly appreciate feedback on whether we are being maneuvered into a situation with limited options. We are a fairly small, single location company with 20 users on a domain with 1 server hosting primarily Visual Foxpro apps. EMail is handled by Outlook, with .pst's and Documents stored on the server. Only other shared needs are a barcode license app and 1printer used for special jobs.
Our longtime vendor and network maintenance co. is proposing
4 VMs under Hyper-V on:
Windows 2012R2
Intel 4U Tower, s2600CP4 mb, with dual 750 w power
Dual Xeon E5-2620 6 cores LGA 2011 2 Ghz 15 mb
64 g Server Ram
SSD for boot drive
3 3 tb RAID-1 Data Drives
Their plan is to put everything, including all users desktops into VMs.
One concern is that they seem to want to move us out of Barracuda backup, which they talked us into 2 years ago, and into VEEAM for backup which, I believe, only handles backups of virtual machines. Simply stuff, like the license server, would need to be in a VM.
I don't mind having a system somewhat more powerful than current needs, but I do need a little more confidence that we're getting a system that fits our needs, not theirs.
Thanks!
Our longtime vendor and network maintenance co. is proposing
4 VMs under Hyper-V on:
Windows 2012R2
Intel 4U Tower, s2600CP4 mb, with dual 750 w power
Dual Xeon E5-2620 6 cores LGA 2011 2 Ghz 15 mb
64 g Server Ram
SSD for boot drive
3 3 tb RAID-1 Data Drives
Their plan is to put everything, including all users desktops into VMs.
One concern is that they seem to want to move us out of Barracuda backup, which they talked us into 2 years ago, and into VEEAM for backup which, I believe, only handles backups of virtual machines. Simply stuff, like the license server, would need to be in a VM.
I don't mind having a system somewhat more powerful than current needs, but I do need a little more confidence that we're getting a system that fits our needs, not theirs.
Thanks!
ASKER
I asking for clarification on the desktops--he may have just meant backing up their desktops into one VM.
But if I have their eMail and Documents backed up, I'm not sure I'm too concerned about getting their desktops as well.
But if I have their eMail and Documents backed up, I'm not sure I'm too concerned about getting their desktops as well.
No, that seems overkill, a desktop can be re-installed and the backup restored, you could take images of the desktops and place them somewhere but you'd have to have the same hardware (or nearly the same) for that to make sense ... So if you have the users' files and such I don't see a need to backup the desktops themselves.
I would add more disks in the system though, 4 virtual servers isn't much but the more spindles (disks) in the array the faster they'll be, if the space is available I'd rather go for 6x 2TB than 3x 3TB and place them in RAID 10 for extra performance.
I would add more disks in the system though, 4 virtual servers isn't much but the more spindles (disks) in the array the faster they'll be, if the space is available I'd rather go for 6x 2TB than 3x 3TB and place them in RAID 10 for extra performance.
I have tried VMs as desktops and it was somewhat problematic for me. There was latency and lag time noticed, especially with graphics and video. And if the server goes down, several desktops are also down.
EMail is handled by Outlook, with .pst's on server you realize that this is a not supported configuration.
According to an iops calculator you need 491 IOPS which means 12 x 7KSAS in Raid-5 or Raid 10
vdi iops calculator http://www.unidesk.com/resources/iops-calculator
raid iops calculator http://www.thecloudcalculator.com/calculators/disk-raid-and-iops.html
According to an iops calculator you need 491 IOPS which means 12 x 7KSAS in Raid-5 or Raid 10
vdi iops calculator http://www.unidesk.com/resources/iops-calculator
raid iops calculator http://www.thecloudcalculator.com/calculators/disk-raid-and-iops.html
Veeam now has a product to backup end-clients as well, so that might be something to look into.
ASKER
Looks like the vendor is talking about 'folder redirection' for each desktop, so that each user is actually saving to a folder in a VM on the server. (All users to the same VM). Not sure how or if this differs from a virtual desktop. Seems me me that in both the user is running desktop files from the VM?
If all PST are on local machines, my understanding is that VEEAM can't back up physical files. Is storing them in a VM on the server supported?
If all PST are on local machines, my understanding is that VEEAM can't back up physical files. Is storing them in a VM on the server supported?
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ASKER
Sorry- I meant you can't select files on a physical device to backup. But your link does point to a separate version of Veeam that can.
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ASKER
I'm going to have to get clarification from the vendor. If 20 users of physical desktops each have a folder inside the same virtual machine on the server, and each of their desktops is redirected to their own folder in the one VM, is that considered a virtual desktop?
We hadn't discussed saving desktops at all, so I was surprised when this came up. If we have each user's documents and .pst backed up separately from their physical station to off-site storage, and the database running in a VM on the server, backed up separately, I think I'm happy?
We hadn't discussed saving desktops at all, so I was surprised when this came up. If we have each user's documents and .pst backed up separately from their physical station to off-site storage, and the database running in a VM on the server, backed up separately, I think I'm happy?
. If 20 users of physical desktops each have a folder inside the same virtual machine on the server, and each of their desktops is redirected to their own folder in the one VM, is that considered a virtual desktop? in this scenario you have a base.vhd when each user connects they get a differencing vhd that is created on login from the base.vhd.. when they save anything to this machine it goes to the differencing.vhd which is destroyed when they logout.. unless they have a personal vhd associated with their useraccount. every virtual machine requires its own license.
On the hardware you posted?? Or other hardware??
20 virtual desktops will need quite the hardware, especially storage because that's always the bottleneck. Maybe they were thinking Citrix??
VEEAM is a wonderful product, it's mostly geared towards VM backups, that is true ... If that would be enough, I cannot tell from the info here, if it also backups all the files and folders from the clients maybe...
The 4 VMs on the hardware posted probably will not be a problem ...