ORACLE software products in a virtualized environment is against ORACLE’ recommendations.

Hi
after contracting with ORACLE on Hospitality software and during installation process They seem surprised because i install Server OS on VMWARE ESXi 5.5 and they stop all installation process and sent to me this letter need to sign from (IT Manager)
the question is that normal
and why ?!
Virtualized-Environment-disclaimer.docx
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TemodyPickalbatros, IT ManagerAsked:
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
Oracle doesn't support their products running in VMware with very few exceptions:
1: You run across a known bug
2: You can reproduce the bug on a physical server.

and a couple of other instances.

Please take a look at the following not on Oracle Support:
Support Position for Oracle Products Running on VMWare Virtualized Environments (Doc ID 249212.1)
slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
I just saw you attached the waiver.

It pretty much states what is in the Support note I posted above.

It is covering Oracle in the event something doesn't work and it is not a known bug.

You can't go back to them and say "I've paid you to get this running and you have to even though I know it isn't a supported platform".
johnsoneSenior Oracle DBACommented:
I have never seen a disclaimer like that before, but how Oracle supports virtualized environments is pretty well documented.  The basic idea is if you cannot reproduce the issue in a non-virtualized environment, you are pretty much on your own.
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>The basic idea is if you cannot reproduce the issue in a non-virtualized environment

Small distinction:  Cannot reproduce in a supported environment.

They do support some virtual setups.

They sort of have to support their own virtualization product and they now support Microsoft Hyper-V if you are on 2012.
TemodyPickalbatros, IT ManagerAuthor Commented:
i am afraid if i sign it and after that i faced a critical system or database error then they will not support me
sdstuberCommented:
>>> •      Customer has been advised that support for ORACLE software products installed in a virtualized environment will be provided on a reasonable efforts basis only


So you will be supported "reasonably"

What they are trying to say is - if your system is broken because you used VM, that's not their fault.
If the system is broken  regardless of VM then it is their fault.


If you buy a standard car and take if off-road and the suspension is ruined, the manufacturer doesn't have a lot of incentive in trying to help you fix your car, even if under warranty.

If you buy a standard car and drive it normally on normal roads, the manufacturer will honor the warranty.

Many companies run on VM without issue and with full support from Oracle.

You are assuming a risk by doing so, whether the risk is worthwhile is up to you.
slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>i am afraid if i sign it and after that i faced a critical system or database error then they will not support me

That is why I would never run Oracle in production on VMware.

If it isn't a known bug you are seeing, it will be up to you to prove it is their bug by reproducing it in a support configuration.
TemodyPickalbatros, IT ManagerAuthor Commented:
Many companies run on VM without issue and with full support from Oracle.
That's what i am talking about because i asked some friends and they already ruining they ORACLE software on VMWARE as well
sdstuberCommented:
>>>it will be up to you to prove it is their bug by reproducing it in a support configuration.

this is not the first step.

 You put in your support request, detail the problem and if at some point in the investiation the problem points to the OS or hardware, then the VM must be ruled out.

Yes, it will fall on you to do that proving but it's not like you have to build a physical server every time you ask for help.
TemodyPickalbatros, IT ManagerAuthor Commented:
if i secure my servers and data with a strong backup policy
is that enough or you recommend another thing
sdstuberCommented:
this is a contract, and hence subject to negotiation before agreement.

Have your lawyers/procurement team work out some specifications of how/when  VM "proving" will occur.

If an agreeable definition of "reasonable" can't be found that falls within your realm of acceptable risk, then go physical.   If reasonable support and reasonable risk can be worked out, then go virtual.
sdstuberCommented:
>>> if i secure my servers and data with a strong backup policy

backups have nothing to do with your support.

Your system may not be corrupted an in need of recovery but still need support.
If you have bad performance or run into an oracle bug but those issues are tied to your use of VM, then you'll be stuck.
TemodyPickalbatros, IT ManagerAuthor Commented:
good
do you think we can negotiate about that
sdstuberCommented:
>>> do you think we can negotiate about that

That will depend on your company's relationship with Oracle.

In this case you're not asking Oracle to change anything in their default policy, only to provide additional clarification around "reasonable effort"

That may in turn spark discussions that could warrant a change, but again, how that plays out is up to you and your current support and risk assessment.

None of us can tell you what is specifically possible.  Even if I was allowed to discuss the particulars of my company's contract with oracle, it still wouldn't be relevant because my company and your company aren't the same.  We each have our own unique combinations of hardware, software, support, exceptions, extensions, caveats, costs, discounts, etc.

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TemodyPickalbatros, IT ManagerAuthor Commented:
Thanks all for advice
slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>> If reasonable support and reasonable risk can be worked out, then go virtual.

For me, it boils down to:
At 3AM when your system is down, do you really want to get into a debate with Oracle Support about what is and isn't a "virtual" issue?
TemodyPickalbatros, IT ManagerAuthor Commented:
:)
thanks i understood that
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