Overheating AMD

We have all Asus mobos with AMD dual cores.  One of them just started shutting down--not blue screen but turning hard off.   Checked hardware monitors on bios screen and cpu just creeping up in temperature.   Cpu fan running about 1475 (large fan; almost all of them run 1350-1500 and keep cpu about 35). This one starts about 45 and climbs slowly to 80+. One time 90.  Replaced thermal paste, put in new additional case fan and that slowed down the climbing temp but didn't fix it. Climbs faster once past 70.   Bios sensors show voltage seemingly steady.  Have reset bios to defaults so no overclocking.

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JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
Run Real Temp or like temperature monitor and watch every 10 minutes.

If you did the thermal paste properly then that should not be an issue. The air pipe could be clogged (I assume there is an air pipe).

It seems like a cooling issue:  Fan dirty, heat pipe clogged, thermal paste still an issue (CPU and GPU), defective CPU / GPU.

Start with a bootable DVD (CD) and let it come to rest. Does the computer overheat this way.

Open Task Manager and set it to hide when minimized. It should be near zero. Is CPU running high?
How did you replace the thermal transfer paste? Did you first totally clean off the rests of the old paste? Also just add a little drop of fresh thermal transfer paste, too much can have the opposite effect.

Make sure the fans run smoothly and aren't getting stuck, sometimes oil or fat helps. As mentioned above, make sure all dust is removed.

Check that the heatsink is properly seated and very firmly attached.

Look in the BIOS and disable any over-clocking. AMD CPU's and mainboards for them can often be easily overclocked, and overclocking will increase the power used  and thus also cause more heat which has to be moved out.
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
We did those.  Cleaned off old paste and made sure paste wasn't too thin or thick, no bare spots. Blew out all dust from fans and case.   Checking th even bios before and after loading defaults, I don't think it was ever OC'd.   All that helped--it took longer for temps to start creeping up.  But creep they did.  :-(
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JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
Try (as I noted) booting with a bootable CD and test with that.  Why? To determine if hardware (temp rises with bootable CD) or installed software (temp does NOT rise with bootable CD).
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
Maybe a stupid question but boot to what with a credit?  I can't get to the bios sensors once it's booted.  Sorry to be dense.
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
$@")(  autocorrect.  Boot to what with a CD is what I meant.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
You can get a Knoppix (Linux) or Ultimate Boot CD and make a bootable CD with it. Then start the problem computer with the bootable CD. You do not need to do anything but boot. Then see if the computer overheats.
Check for further BIOS settings, often you can increase fan speeds there, or change the temperature threshold for the CPU.

Check the heatsink again, maybe it's mounting assembly is broken and isn't mounted firmly enough for that reason. Try another heatsink. make sure the mounting assembly is properly fitted to the mainboard.
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
OK.  I'll check it tonight before I leave.  I appreciate all your comments and assistance.
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
So I turn it on tonight, and by the time that I get the Bios open, this stupid thing's already up to 58 degrees.  And it's climing faster than it did last night.  This thing just doesn't like playing nicely.   I have another AMD chip at home so will swap that out tomorrow and see if that fixes it.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
To get that hot that quickly suggests the paste was not correctly applied or the CPU is faulty.
Mal OsborneAlpha GeekCommented:
Have you checked for an errant app?  Something pegging all CPU cores at 100% will cause CPU temps and fan speed to increase noticeably, SETI at home or something  maybe?

Also, obvious question maybe, but is the CPU clocked correctly?  Overclocking will cause excess heat, in an unpredictable manner. One CPU might run fine at 10% overclocked, while another of the same model might get hot quickly, and a third another might just sit there inert.
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
(Snarl).  New cpu did same. Started 55.  Stayed at 62 forever--just when I thought it was going to be ok, started to climb. Bios showed 5vsb 5.01v. Vccp 1.40, 5v at 5.14, 12v at 11.9.  Reset fan low temperature to 44.  Didn't see any OC settings.  Thermatalke fan 1410 rpm.  That's right on spec. Cleaned heatsync and fan and put on new paste.  So it's gotta be the PSU or the mobo.  Thoughts?
swap the PS for testing first - or measure the outputs
but it starts looking like a mobo, or cpu problem
As I already mentioned, look at the heatsink's assembly. It looks like that isn't properly attached, or it is physically broken. Replace the whole heatsink and it's assembly.
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
I've not abandoned this question.  I had some sort of bug the last few days, so haven't 'attacked' it yet.  I DID order a couple of new extra-capacity cooling fans and heatsinks, and some new thermal paste.  They're supposed to be here Friday, so then or Saturday I'll take another whack at it.  I'll check the CPU on another machine, and the power supply, and the new cooler, and finally the mobo.  Gotta be something, right?  Thanks to all of you.  Will report back.
ok waiting
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
Got the new fans--larger fan (120 mm), runs faster (1600 rpm instead of 1100).   Cleaned off old thermal paste, put on new fan with new paste.  Hooked up.  Machine hasn't run for about five days, and office is about 72 degrees F.  So starting it and checking the bios screen for hardware monitor shows it's already at 70 degrees C, and climbing a degree about every four-five seconds.  And blowing cold air out of the vent port.  Climbed up to over 100 C and then did a hard shutdown.    It's now had a new CPU, new cooling system plus a new case fan, new thermal paste.   The fact that it starts showing 70 degrees C makes no sense to me in a room that's 72 F--the conversion shows that 70 C temperature equates to 158 degrees F.   To me, it makes sense that it's the temperature sensors on the mobo; what else could it be?  But any way we look at it, it's shutting down after about 8 minutes of operation which makes no sense.  I'm open to about anything--I've not seen this sort of problem.
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
I forgot to add--the motherboard temp started at 29 degrees C and just before it shut down got up to 31.
Larger fans will normally run much slower, as they can move more air at the lower speed. Have you made sure the heatsink assembly is really OK and is properly seated against the CPU? If it isn't properly seated, the heat from the CPU just has no chance of properly being moved from it.

Also, are you sure the fan is connected to the correct plug on the mainboard? There is often a plug for the CPU Fan, and others for the case.
Also, please keep to °C and forget about F.
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
The "F" was simply to show room temperature.  I didn't mean to use it to describe the machine, but people usually refer to room temperature or outdoor temp in F terms.  And yes, I did check the correct plug (it's labeled "cpu fan") and made SURE it was seated correctly.  I bought the new model fan because it was rated for over 90 watts and moved more air than anything else I found--about 35% more than our normal model.  If anything, the cpu temperature said it was increasing FASTER than with the Thermaltake fan I was previously using.   I've made sure to follow all of the advice you good people have given, because it's all been good.  

The fan, incidentally, is an "Absolute Zero" and has the following specs:

- Flower shape heatsink
- Aluminum base and fins
- Tool-less mounting system
- Weight:- 285g
- Overall dimensions - 126 x 126 x 85 mm
- Heatsink dimensions - 120 x 120 x 40 mm
- Fan dimensions - 120 x 120 x 25 mm
- Fan speed - 1,500RPM +/- 10%
- Airflow - 39.1CFM
- Noise level - 28.75DBa
- Bearing - long life hydraulic
- Rated voltage - 12V (10.8 - 13.2)
- Start voltage - 7V
- Power consumption - 3.6W
- Rated current - 0.3A
- 3-pin power connector
- Blue LED light
- Removable dust filter
- Compatible with AMD sockets 939, 940, AM2, AM2+, AM3, AM3+, FM1, FM2, FM2+
Then I'm almost 100% sure that the heatsink isn't seated properly on the CPU. It must sit very tightly on the CPU. Did the new FAN include the complete assembly, including a heatsink, and if yes, how is it mounted to the mainboard?

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SmugdadAuthor Commented:
I appreciate this. But this machine ran for 2+ years before now with no such problems.  Now it's a nutcase.  And we don't turn them off as a general practice.  I've spent a lot of time seating this cooler and will point out that the paste on the heatsync spread smoothly over the whole cpu.  I checked myself.  So I'm confident that it was put on right.  The new fan is the one in the photo heat sync and all.  
Fan did read about 120 rpm more than previously.
what are you using for minitoring the temperature?
it can be a bad sensor also
if it shuts down with over temperature, feel if the heatsink is hot
The picture is tiny, I can see practically nothing from that. Make a photo of the Mainboard with the CPU, without the heatsink, then another of just the heatsink, without it being mounted on the board, best from different angles so one can see the details, and attach those pictures. Make sure they are larger and have a higher resolution than the one you posted.
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
OK.   Will get pix.  Nobus, I'm hitting the 'delete' key and checking temp in the bios hardware monitor screen.  The few times lately we've got to windows I've used both Speedfan and Open Hardware Monitor.  OHM gives more accurate readings. SF shows a negative temp.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
Way back I asked you to boot with a bootable CD, let the machine come to rest and check temperatures. Have you done this?
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
Yes. Used one of the UBCD programs--sorry but can't recall which.   Also parted magic (mini- Linux distro ) and it failed to load.  Suspect glitch on cd.  Temp got to 100 C.  Didn't seem to add or subtract from time to overheat reading bios screen.  I apologize for not reporting earlier.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
Have you then considered after all you have done that the motherboard itself is the problem?  Starting with the bootable CD eliminates operating system issues because the machine still overheats.
did you feel the heatsink when it was hot?  you should be able to feel that easily
i suspect sensor problems -  or other mobo problems, confirmed by "Also parted magic (mini- Linux distro ) and it failed to load. "
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
That's exactly where I was going next.  John and Nobus, your points were dead on IMHO.  I've got a new one coming so will put it in ASAP.  Will report later.  Thanks, everybody.
by any chance - was there a plastic cover on the heatsink of the fan ? if so remove it
also -  if you have a Vmeter - measure the +12,+5, and +3.3 V on the 24 pin connecter
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
I don't unfortunately.   The bios hw monitor shows the reads though and they seem fine.  Going to bench a new board with fan and cpu and see what happens.
you say they seem fine - post them, or verify that there is a max deviation of 5%
SmugdadAuthor Commented:
FINALLY!!!  Think we have it.  Replaced motherboard--started heating up again.  Dug around in parts bin and came up with stock AMD cooler with high-speed fan.  Got the paste out, got it seated, and VOILA.  Had to tweak the mobo because it was set so the fan was on low speed until it hit 70 degrees, so reset that back to 40 so it'd run fast all the time.  CPU hit 68 pretty quickly and then stopped climbing.   I don't know if the old motherboard was at fault or not, but I'm not taking any chances.  It's in the dumpster with the old fan.  I have no idea why it started doing this after 3+ years of operating OK before, but the bottom line is that after a new board, new CPU and new cooler, it's finally within levels.  

You guys are all great!  Somebody tell me how to split points so I can award them to you.
JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
Click on Accept Multiple solutions and split as you think is fair for everyone.
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