No display on initial boot, reboot works

Ok this is a problem that I've had for a while that I chalked up to a PSU issue.  The PSU problem became bad enough that I finally RMA'ed it and had Corsair send me a new one.  Down to the nitty gritty.

This is a custom machine.  Parts:

ASROCK 990FX Extreme 3 motherboard
Nvidia GeForce GTX 560 Ti  GPU
AMD Processor
16g Ram

The problem is if the machine is powered off, when you turn it on you will not get any display at all.  Lights stay orange on both monitors.  If you hold the button and power off and power right back on it, it pops up and works every time.  I think it depends how long I wait to power off, but sometimes goes thru POST other times it must make it Windows as I get the improper shutdown message.

This has been a long term problem that i haven't just dealt with out of laziness.  The computer issues seem to escalate when plugging in any device into the MOBO Usb or case USB ports that required power would freeze the computer.  And then two weeks ago the hard drives weren't getting power.

I always chalked up the first time boot display issue as a PSU problem.  Well I received my new Corsair power supply today.  Hard drives have power and the USB ports seem to work now (I need some more testing, but so far so good).  

But the no display from a cold start issue is still occurring.  The MOBO does not have an onboard graphics card.  So there isn't anything extra to disable.  I have upgraded to the latest BIOS version as well.

I have come across only one article where someone else described this issue but it wasn't resolved.  I don't have any extra MOBOs or GPU's laying around to do all kinds of swaps.  

Anyone else seen an issue like this before.

It works perfectly fine on the second boot.    Motherboard or Graphics card issue?
jbmos2333Asked:
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jbmos2333Author Commented:
Just an update.  My wife's fitbit was dead.  Plugging it into the USB ports on the motherboard it started charging fine.  Plugging it into the case USB ports, instantly freezes the computer.

If you plug something that has its own power source into the case USB ports it works.
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web_trackerComputer Service TechnicianCommented:
It could be bad usb ports on the case, check for bent pins. If you have had this problem since new, it is possible that the case usb cables were incorrectly plugged into the mobo and the problem does not show up unless a device is plugged into the case usb port.

is the powersupply rated to supply enough juice to power all your devices? ie power to the usb ports, to your high end graphics card and mobo, cpu/ and fans, including case fans.  How many case fans are you using? What is the wattage rating of your powersupply.  You can use online calculators to find out what the minimum wattage you require for your powersupply.

http://powersupplycalculator.net/  http://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator
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nobusCommented:
if it is not the PS, i suggest to update your drivers, and bios
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/990FX%20Extreme3/?cat=Download
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jbmos2333Author Commented:
I should have included the PSU figure.  The new Corsair replacement is 850watts.  The minimum requirements for what i have are only 500-550watts depending what calculator you use.  So enough power shouldn't be a problem.  I re-seated the USB motherboard cables last night during the power supply swap.  My feeling is the case USB ports/cables are bad.  So I am not as concerned about that right now.

I would like to figure out the display/reboot issue.  All the drivers are updated to the newest ones.  But drivers wouldn't be an issue with display problems because you can't even see post.  So its not even making it that far.

I did upgrade the BIOS to the newest version prior to posting a question. It had no effect.
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nobusCommented:
in such cases, i start with a minimum setup to troubleshoot :
only 1 disk, ram stick - no cd drives or other devices connected to test

read more here : http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Components/Motherboards/A_1945.html                  (Short-overview-of-how-to-troubleshoot-bad-hardware-when-a-pc-does-not-post)
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JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
The last time that happened to me, I determined it was the motherboard. I replaced the computer and upon inspection of the motherboard, some capacitors were bad.

So you have replaced the CPU, I would say motherboard or possibly power supply are the next stops.
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jbmos2333Author Commented:
The computer does POST.  You just can't see it on the screen.  I haven't replaced the CPU.  And the power supply was replaced last night.  I am going to call AsRock and see what they have to say for themselves.
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JohnBusiness Consultant (Owner)Commented:
So then likely the motherboard has a problem.
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dbruntonCommented:
>>  So then likely the motherboard has a problem.

Well, no.

This could be the graphics card.  The board doesn't have onboard graphics to test against unfortunately.

It could be the graphics card or an incompatibility between the graphics card and the board.  Try removing and reseating the graphics card.  Check all power cables to the graphics card are correctly inserted.

It also could be the board.

You'd test by finding another graphics card and trying to see if that cures the problem or not.  Ideally another graphics card of the same make/brand/model.  If not then something cheap and available.  If the problem still occurs then motherboard.  If it doesn't then possibly the graphics card is at fault.
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nobusCommented:
you can also test by running from a live cd like knoppix, or by installing another OS on a spare disk, like ubuntu
if it happens then also - it's surely a hardware problem
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-mirrors/index-en.html
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web_trackerComputer Service TechnicianCommented:
The weird thing though when the user reboots or restarts the computer it works, it is just on the initial boot. This make troubleshooting more difficult, especially when it happens during the post, before it is released to the operating system. It definitely is a hardware problem. 850 watts is plenty for your system, depending on how many case fans you have.  Have you tested all the fans to see if they turn freely. It may be taking more amps to get the fans running then when you reboot the fans are moving more freely and they are not drawing as many amps and you therefore able to boot up. Are the fans clean?  How many fans do you have in your system (include the cpu fans, video card fans)?  You may try unplugging some of the case fans if you have too many, and see if it makes any difference when powering on the computer. If it is not the fans I would go with a bad video card or bad motherboard, especially after swapping the powersupply and you are still having the same issues.
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nobusCommented:
you can also check for related problems in event viewer
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web_trackerComputer Service TechnicianCommented:
I know some Dell computers the same thing happens, when the computer is off you turn it on by pressing the on button and it will start to turn on then it will turn off, then you have to press the powerbutton a second time then it will complete the post and release it to the operating system.
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nobusCommented:
well -  since you don't have spare parts - best turn it in to a repair shop
without parts -  there is very little you can do, except start with the minimum setup as i posted

Did you try it? or just said - it does post, so it does not apply to my problem?
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jbmos2333Author Commented:
I am getting another graphics card from a buddy of mine to test now.  He was working a similar situation for someone else that ended up being the motherboard.

I personally think its the motherboard. After fooling around in the BIOS features the hardware enabled raid quit and the drives are running independent now.  

Of course its easier to swap the graphics card to verify.
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nobusCommented:
why don't you answer my question?  did yoy try it?
for EE to work - there has to be interaction; without your info - i can't do anything
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jbmos2333Author Commented:
nobus. I appreciated the input.  But  I have minimal hardware already installed. Its literally 4 things at the moment.  I have put in all related info.  This is a hardware problem and not a software problem and event viewer would be of little use as this occurs before since all of the hardware passes their tests same thing with taking the time to run another drive with software.   I was checking to see if anyone else had ever come across something similar.  No has yet to describe this exact symptom yet.

Since I don't have the extra equipment on hand at the moment it has handicapped my ability to do the normal trouble shooting steps.  So time to get the necessary equipment to test out.

I've got this under control now as the only clear solution is acquiring the necessary parts to swap and test.  Any other way now is a waste of time and its one of those odd situations that can occur.  I had a dell laptop last week for a user that booted to NO DISK FOUND black screen.

Internal diagnostics passed,  SMART drive passed.  Then the computer started just working again.  Then it stopped again.  Everything checked out again and its been working fine.  Opened a ticket with dell we think it could be the SATA connector on the MB.  But now its functioning perfectly again.  Quirky thing.
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jbmos2333Author Commented:
To appropriately troubleshoot this issue requires the additional parts to narrow down the problem.  It is strictly hardware related and is either the video card or the motherboard.  No point in keeping this open as no one to this point has seen this exact problem before.
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