Intel "Pro" SSDs in an array?
First, as a side note, I called Intel support several times asking the difference between their 540S Series and Pro 5400S Series SSDs. The specs are identical at no one new the difference other than the price for the Pro 5400S serias is 20% higher. Come on Intel... get a clue...
Anyway... I have been toying with the idea of using these consumer SSDs in small servers with raid controllers. I mean the prices is great and speed is phenomenal. Even beats a 15k SAS. The MTBF is 1.6 million hours which equates to 182 years.
So what am I missing? What is the downside?
Anyway... I have been toying with the idea of using these consumer SSDs in small servers with raid controllers. I mean the prices is great and speed is phenomenal. Even beats a 15k SAS. The MTBF is 1.6 million hours which equates to 182 years.
So what am I missing? What is the downside?
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I'd like to explore this a little farther rindi. We are at odds as far a OS vs hardware raid. Can you achieve raid levels other than 0 or 1 with OS raid? Will it do raid 60?
Back on the hardware side ... after a long chat with Intel they say TRIM is a function of the OS and the drive. Now days all SSDs come with TRIM but if you put it on a raid controller TRIM is only supported on raid 0 so as soon as you leave raid 0 TRIM no longer works unless the controller is TRIM capable and right now not many are.
Back on the hardware side ... after a long chat with Intel they say TRIM is a function of the OS and the drive. Now days all SSDs come with TRIM but if you put it on a raid controller TRIM is only supported on raid 0 so as soon as you leave raid 0 TRIM no longer works unless the controller is TRIM capable and right now not many are.
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Back to the chat with Intel... they said TRIM is only supported on Raid 0 via the OS. That is almost as good as nothing. Raid 0 has no fault tolerance. So can OS Raid go beyond Raid 0? Can I run raid 60 with the OS Raid?
I don't have a controller yet. I am just starting to look. TRIM is not something they seem to readily advertise. Intel said "some of their series 7 controllers do",
I don't have a controller yet. I am just starting to look. TRIM is not something they seem to readily advertise. Intel said "some of their series 7 controllers do",
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"If the SSD has enough extra internal space that it doesn't show you then it can do its own garbage collection without TRIM". Can you explain that? What starts the garbage collection on an Enterprise drive without TRIM on the controller?
As far as the Raid configurations I am talking about Microsoft Server 2012. So if I have 4 SATA ports on the motherboard and populate then with 4 SATA drives I can set up a Raid 60 with the OS. Won't do TRIM but it will be Raid 60?
As far as the Raid configurations I am talking about Microsoft Server 2012. So if I have 4 SATA ports on the motherboard and populate then with 4 SATA drives I can set up a Raid 60 with the OS. Won't do TRIM but it will be Raid 60?
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Yes. Raid 6. Not 60. If you believe YouTube Server 2012 will do Raid 0, 1 and 5 but... Raid 0 is not fault tolerant and people badmouth raid 5 as being archaic and not having dual loss capability. So the only real choice is raid 1? Hmmmm. One way or the other no TRIM except in Raid 0. Sure seems limited.
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What I am trying to do is correlate hardware raid to software raid. Raid 10 in a hardware raid environment is mirrored raid 0s. Which sounded like "Two Mirrors via Windows Disk Management from 4 drives and you have trim support enabled"
@andyalder I agree. Getting a grip on this is tough. Intel said you could manually invoke TRIM but shrinking the volume to just the sized of the data, re-partitioning what is left, then deleting that partition and expanding the data back to where it was. That is somewhere along the lines of what you mentioned. I'll see if I can pin Intel down a little farther....
@andyalder I agree. Getting a grip on this is tough. Intel said you could manually invoke TRIM but shrinking the volume to just the sized of the data, re-partitioning what is left, then deleting that partition and expanding the data back to where it was. That is somewhere along the lines of what you mentioned. I'll see if I can pin Intel down a little farther....
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They didn't say it was easy they just said it could be done :) It is frustrating and Intel doesn't make it any easier. They did say that all SSD drives today support TRIM but at this point the OS and the controller driver (onboard or external) have to support it as well.
The assumption would be that Windows Server 2012 and WIndows 7, 8 and 10 would support it on the OS side (but that is just an assumption) which means the real problem is with the controller driver. They pointed me to a article by AnandTech where intel just got TRIM to work with their series 7 motherboard and their onboard raid (both 0 and 1) so this looks like it might be another impossible thing to do. Finding out if the controller supports it.
The assumption would be that Windows Server 2012 and WIndows 7, 8 and 10 would support it on the OS side (but that is just an assumption) which means the real problem is with the controller driver. They pointed me to a article by AnandTech where intel just got TRIM to work with their series 7 motherboard and their onboard raid (both 0 and 1) so this looks like it might be another impossible thing to do. Finding out if the controller supports it.
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Well.... another Marathon chat. Three things have to be "TRIM Compatible". 1) The OS 2) The Drive Controller and 3) The Drive itself.
Trick question... what do you interpret 2) The Drive Controller to be?
Trick question... what do you interpret 2) The Drive Controller to be?
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That's why it was a trick question :) I went through an hour chat with his guy. Started out confirming that exact statement. He agreed. After an hour in chat he came back and said "By the way It is just 1) The OS and 3) The Drive itself"
My jaw opened. After an hour in chat he reversed himself and said the Drive Controller didn't have to be TRIM Compliant. After another 45 minutes of me hammering him I finally found out that he considered the Drive Controller to be the SATA interface embedded in the SSD. Idiot. Actually the same holds true for AHCI/SATA. The big 3. 1) The OS 2) The Drive Controller and 3) The Drive itself. It is simply that a standalone AHCI/SATA "Drive Controller" is by nature TRIM compliant.
So there aren't too many Raid Controllers that are TRIM Compliant. Intel doesn't even have one. Just the on-board raid in the Series 7 chipset or newer using RST 11.0 or higher. Kind of makes you wonder why they even offer Enterprise SSD drives. Oh well.....
My jaw opened. After an hour in chat he reversed himself and said the Drive Controller didn't have to be TRIM Compliant. After another 45 minutes of me hammering him I finally found out that he considered the Drive Controller to be the SATA interface embedded in the SSD. Idiot. Actually the same holds true for AHCI/SATA. The big 3. 1) The OS 2) The Drive Controller and 3) The Drive itself. It is simply that a standalone AHCI/SATA "Drive Controller" is by nature TRIM compliant.
So there aren't too many Raid Controllers that are TRIM Compliant. Intel doesn't even have one. Just the on-board raid in the Series 7 chipset or newer using RST 11.0 or higher. Kind of makes you wonder why they even offer Enterprise SSD drives. Oh well.....
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To be honest I am no fan of Intel raid. I use (or use to use) Adaptec. I like Intel Server boards and SSDs. I'll take a look at vRAID. I am not sure what point you are making about loosing enterprise customers.
1) and 3) are given in this day and age. Server 2012 and all current SSDs support TRIM. The only one that is a question mark is 2) The Drive Controller. I don't like using on-board SATA in servers. I'll take a look at vRAID.
1) and 3) are given in this day and age. Server 2012 and all current SSDs support TRIM. The only one that is a question mark is 2) The Drive Controller. I don't like using on-board SATA in servers. I'll take a look at vRAID.
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My focus is small businesses and the cost of the Enterprise is prohibitive. Maybe I should just go back to SAS. Play by the rules :)
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Intel is comparing a consume drive to a Data Center drive. What I'd like to see is a Consumer SSD compared to a 10k SAS or something to that effect. I am talking small server here. 20-30 user.
The fact that they don't know the difference between their 540S Series and Pro 5400S Series is kind of laughable. Leave it to Intel. I am more concerned in the pitfalls of using a consumer SSD in a raid array in a server.