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Machine hangs randomly. . . after installing Anniversary Upgrade of Win 10?

Posted on 2016-08-09
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Last Modified: 2016-10-10
My machine (Intel i5; 8 gb ram, 64-bit)  has recently been hanging up at what seem to be random moments: the cursot stops moving, turns into an hour glass.  Sometimes it can be moved, sometimes not. But nothing happens for anywhere from 10 seconds to a minute or more. Then all's well again. Very aggravating.  It just happened again, but this time the cursor stayed in arrow form and could be moved, but clicking did nothing. This in real time!  I tried to write in cortana, to find out when the last upgrade occurred. Full stop.  Since waiting 2 minutes, I tried again, and the latest upgrade to win10 was 8/4/16.
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Question by:Dan Moerman
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by:Manuel Flores
ID: 41749363
I will suggest to perform all hardware test from the manufacturer and BIOS tests.
Run Windows update and install latest patches.
A hard disk test too.
Run a "sfc /scannow" command.

About SFC command; https://www.experts-exchange.com//questions/28708678/How-to-use-SFC-command.html

..MFlores..
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41749455
If the upgrade went wrong or there were issues preceding the upgrade, the fastest overall way to fix it is to run a Windows 10 Repair install

Go to the Media Creation Link: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
Click on Upgrade to Windows 10 (even though Windows 10 is running), Click on Download, Open (run) but not Save, allow it to run in place, allow drivers to upgrade, and then click on Keep Everything.  Let Windows 10 reinstall.  I have done this and it works fine.

It will take about 2 hours but it is watching paint dry. Watch the ball game while waiting.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41749489
I'm in the middle of something else. I'll try this later this evening. Thanks very much. dan
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41756965
Well, I tried the reinstall suggested by Manuel and John.  It didn't work.  I still get hangups at random intervals, from 10 seconds to perhaps a minute and a half.  It  happens with most any software I use. Yesterday it happened 4 or  5 times in a thirty minute session using Word 2016.  It happens routinely when I'm using Chrome. It has also happened with both Excel and Quattro Pro.  Note that I have two additional Windows machines using Win 10, anniversary update, and they are both fine.  One is a new Surface Book; the other is an older Windows Surface that came originally with Win8 (Lucky me!).

Often, but not always, when it hangs I get a (helpful!) note at the top of one monitor (I have 3) saying "Chrome <or whatever> is not responding at this time" (I think that's what it says.)  I have several times activated Task Manager to see if it would indicate what was happening, but, of course, it freezes too.

Any suggestions deeply appreciated.
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41756977
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Expert Comment

by:compdigit44
ID: 41757090
John this is a helpful link you posted...
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41757165
I am not a hardware guy, but I don't believe that my system has a ssd; I will check tomorrow with the guys who made it, and just re-made it (for win10!)  I'll let you know what happens. Many thanks for the prompt and helpful responses.  dan
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41758339
Indeed, as I expected, my machine does not have an ssd.  It had one in the past, but it wasn't very large, and it was quite full. Too full for Win 10.  So I had the ssd replaced with a 1T standard drive, which now has plenty of room on it. A thought:  when operating with that small C drive, I started installing new programs on another drive (called G:).  Does Win10 expect that programs will be on drive C: along with the OS?  Could this cause problems?  I guess I thought that was more or less what the registry was for. . . but Windows has many mysteries./ / /  dan
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41758463
Does Win10 expect that programs will be on drive C: along with the OS?  Could this cause problems?

Yes. I do not see much support for this from Microsoft and lots of people have problems doing it. I have no issues with keeping software on my C: drive. Anything up to Windows 10 with a full load of software will work in 100 GB.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41758483
Yes, but it's easier said than done to move programs from one drive to another. Unless someone has some nifty utility that will help.
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41758485
You have to uninstall from F (or whatever) and reinstall on C:
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by:nobus
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ID: 41758918
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by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41760151
I  have looked around and found several application movers.  The reviews of them are very (VERY) mixed; nothing seems to be generally well thought of.  Does anyone know of an exception?  Something to move programs from one drive to another? That gets high marks from users?
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41760154
They get mixed reviews because they don't always work well. Try PC Mover from Laplink and see if it will help you.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41760307
Laplink/pc Mover seems to be designed primarily to move material from an older to a newer machine. I've contacted their tech support to see if it will help with this problem. I'll report what they say.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41760497
Well, I tried to contact their technical support to determine if what I wanted was possible. But no luck. I made an account and sent the request. But the account didn't work, and they made me look like a fool. I am not a fool.  I won't use their product. Any other suggestions welcome. I really want to efficiently and safely remove program files on drive G to drive C.  Any advise deeply appreciated, and John hurst, it's not on you that their technical support sucks.  Thanks for any and all suggestions.
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by:nobus
nobus earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41760561
well - as john said - there is no such program known to me - that works Always
i fear you'll have to reinstall them all manually on your C: drive
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41760787
I really want to efficiently and safely remove program files on drive G to drive C.

The best way, truly, is to uninstall / reinstall.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41760847
What has surprised me is how many programs are apparently installed -- there is a directory, with a bunch of sub directories, with requisite .exe files, but they are not listed in Control Panel/Programs and Features.  and they don't seem to have internal un-install programs. I've just been deleting these, but I'm concerned that there will be a bunch of detritus in the registry and maybe elsewhere.  Issues and issues. Again thanks for the advise and counsel; I really appreciate it.
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by:nobus
nobus earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41761067
it could be they do not install themselves, but are just run when accessed, like the format progam on the old windows systems
if so -these you can copy
though i wondder if they can be used on win10
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41765338
Well, it's been a while, and my problem persists.  Turns out that I didn't return to the previous version of Windows 10 ("pre-anniversary") after all. I did everything that Windows wanted to go back to the previous version.  I was informed that "this will take a while," so I went and had lunch. Came back in half an hour, and started the machine. Seemed fine.  But then it started halting again, irregularly, and for varying amounts of time, same as before.  So I figured out how to determine exactly which version of Windows I had on the machine, and it was the Anniversary version. So, I tried again to go back to the previous version. No dice; ten days had passed, and That was, apparently, That.

Note that the current version is an updated version of the anniversary update: version 1607, build 14393.51.  Apparently some bug fixes.  But not my bug.

So I still have the problem. I am slowly and painfully moving programs from drive G to drive C.  Very tedious and stressful business. And so far, it hasn't made any difference anyway.  Any additional insights or suggestions would be appreciated.
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by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41785236
This problem persists, but for whatever reason, it seems less frequent than before.  It happens roughly 2 or 3 times an hour.  I have been monitoring the system with Task Manager.  TM is set on "Performance" and is monitoring Drive 0 (C:). . .  When the system freezes, the graph tracking "Active time" flashes to 100%. It stays there until the system becomes responsive again.  Here is an image which I snipped from the screen showing an event.TM during an episode of system freezing.
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by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41785251
Hmm. Not quite finished.  I have found something that helps. It doesn't prevent these freeze-ups but most of the time it will stop it.  If I just tap the CTRL key, it often immediately ends the freeze.  Sometimes, maybe once in 5, the freeze continues, but stops if I press CRTL-ALT.

I have no idea what is happening here, why this disk behavior is happening, or why the CTRL key should have an influence.  

Please advise if anyone has a suggestion.  Many thanks for your attention.  I really appreciate the assistance I've gotten here at ExpertsExchange.
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41785254
You say you have done a Windows 10 reinstall and so it would appear from the above to be some sort of hardware issue. Possibly legacy software, but that would not be certain in my mind.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41785346
Not really a Win 10 reinstall.  I tried to back up from the Anniversary Update to the original Win10; but the back up didn't work, When I tried it again, it was past the 10 day window for doing so.

I considered doing a reinstall of the whole OS, but it turns out that to do so, wipes out all you programs on drive C which have to be reinstalled.  This is simply not practical.  So, I'm living with it for the time being.

Obviously, anything can happen, but I'm dubious of a hardware issue since the system worked fine for probably 6 weeks with the original Win 10.  (And for two years before that with Win 7).  This all started with the Anniversary Update of Win 10.

Supposing that it were a hardware issue, what hardware might be the problem?  (Note that the C: drive is brand new, maybe 2 months old.)
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41785352
1. You can try reinstalling Windows 10 completely from the Media Creation Link (above) and Keep Everything. You can do this and it does not wipe everything out (although I always have my data backed up). I have done this.

2. It could be intermittent memory (get and run memtest86.exe).

Please do both and then post back as questions are being marked as abandoned faster.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41785362
Well, I think that was the case in the past, but no longer. "Keep everything" means keep all your data files. Which is fine. But a "reset" deletes all "apps" not native to Win 10. This from the current windows support site:

Before you begin
Review the following important notes:

    Using this tool will remove all apps that do not come standard with Windows, including other Microsoft apps such as Office. It will also remove most apps installed by your PC’s manufacturer such as your manufacturer’s apps, support apps, and drivers. You will not be able to recover removed apps and will need to manually reinstall them later if you want to keep them.
    You may lose your digital licenses, digital content associated with applications, or other digital entitlements for applications as a result of using the tool, which may impact your ability to use apps you paid for or app-related content you paid for. For this reason, we don’t recommend using this tool on any PC where you wish to ensure all of your applications and application-related content (including Microsoft applications such as Office) remain properly installed and licensed."

My data files are not a problem as I have carbonite.  But reinstalling all the software I use (Word etc, WordPerfect etc.. Endnote, all those Adobe items (photoshop, etc) Foxpro, I  mean, that's a month of struggle. Or more.  

I suppose there is one other option.  I could upgrade my Carbonite so it saved all my program files. I could reset Win 10, and then reinstall programs from Carbonite.  Or, I could keep tapping the CTRL key for a while, and hope that Win10 fixes itself.

Dilemmas dilemmas.  For half my life I didn't have anything remotely resembling a computer and I lived fine with a typewriter and carbon paper.  Maybe, just maybe, . . . . . . .
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41785370
I have done to "Upgrade to Windows 10" from the Media Creation Link and never lost any software (or data). What you are posting comes from the last option in Windows 10 Update, Recovery. There is no need to lose programs or data. This works - I have done it.

Do backup data anyway, and make sure you have your software in case something goes wrong. But I have done this with no issue on my ThinkPad here and also on a client desktop machine I use.
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41785383
I see this article posted on August 2 this year that suggest the default behaviour for the MCL is to keep everything.

http://www.windowscentral.com/use-media-creation-tool-update-windows10

It HAS to, or else all new BIG roll outs will make us reinstall all software.

Back up for certainty and work carefully (read each step) and be sure you are making the correct selections and you should be fine.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41786699
Well, I tried it, using Media Creation Tool, and I now have a new version of the previous software: Version 1607, OS Build 14393.105.  Indeed, so far as I can tell, it saved all the data and programs.

Sad to say, it's worse than ever.  I rebooted a few times, but that didn't help. The Task Manager graph is just solid 100% Active time for the C: drive, and it's very hard to do anything at all. The CTRL key trick doesn't seem to work any more.

What next?
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by:
John Hurst earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41786741
You can still use the MCL, go there and do not download, just run in place. Allow drivers to upgrade and select Keep Everything.

If no luck, then back up solidly, format and install Windows 10 again.
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Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 41787262
can you test by installing another OS on a spare disk drive?
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41787849
John. . . nobus, . . .I don't think so.  This is just to iffy.  Sounds sort of like maybe  should get a psychic or something.
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41787856
I have done the upgrade / reinstall using the Media Creation Link on a bunch of machines now including the one I am working on here. They all work fine.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41787874
Just to be clear. I, too, did the upgrade/reinstall using the Media Creation Link and I still have the same problem that I had before, random freeze-ups with 100% "Active time on "Disk 0 (C:)" . . . per Task Manager.
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41787885
If the computer is certified to run Windows 10 (check that), then the next step would be to back up the computer, ensure the backup, format and install Windows 10 again as a completely fresh install.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41787949
I suppose.  I'll add the necessary stuff to back up programs on Carbonite.  That will probably take a week or two.
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by:nobus
nobus earned 250 total points (awarded by participants)
ID: 41788194
may be best to test ram and disk, before doing a reinstall; i use  the UBCD for this:
Hardware diagnostic CD    UBCD
---------------------------------------------------
go to the download page, scroll down to the mirror section, and  click on a mirror to start the download
Download the UBCD and make the cd   <<==on a WORKING PC, and boot the problem PC from it
Here 2 links, one to the general site, and a direct link to the download

since the downloaded file is an ISO file, eg ubcd527.iso - so you need to use an ISO burning tool
if you don't have that software, install cdburnerXP : http://cdburnerxp.se/

If you want also the Ram tested - run memtest86+ at least 1 full pass,  - you should have NO errors!
 
For disk Diagnostics run the disk diag for your disk brand (eg seagate diag for seagate drive)  from the HDD section -  long or advanced diag !  (runs at least for30 minutes)

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/      

**  you can make a bootable cd - or bootable usb stick
*** note *** for SSD drives  use the tool from the manufacturer, like intel 's toolbox :
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/18455/Intel-Solid-State-Drive-Toolbox

for completeness -here's how i handle disk problems : http://www.experts-exchange.com/Storage/Hard_Drives/A_3000-The-bad-hard-disk-problem.html
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41788558
Reply to nobus.

A few details.  The drive here is brand new, maybe 3 months. I got it because the ssd I had was full, and so I couldn't update to Win10 because it needs 10 gb to run the upgrade. After the new drive (a Western Digital 1 T drive) was installed, it ran fine with Win7; it ran fine with Win10 when first installed about 2 months ago.  These problems began shortly after the Win10 "Anniversary Upgrade." The several additional updates since then have not made an appreciable difference.

To me, that does not sound like a hardware problem. If you still think it likely IS a hardware problem, I'll take it back to the folks who put in the drive and see what they can find.

Thanks very much for your insight and time.

dan
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Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 41789058
i agree it looks like a software problem - but in order to know, you have to test with something; that's why i suggested another OS for testing

you have no errors in device manager - or event viewer  ?

for an SSD test it with the manufacturer's diag - not the normal drive diagnostics
what model do you have?
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41789469
I do not have an ssd.  I had one, but it was too small to allow Win10 to install (requiring 10 g of space). I replaced it with the 1 t standard drive.

How can I find errors in device manager or event viewer?  Thanks.
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by:nobus
ID: 41789657
open device manager - anything with errors will show with an exclamation mark (yellow) or red cross
open event viewer, and filter for errors
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41789751
device manager.  No yellow or red flags

event viewer, About a billion warnings and errors.  What am I looking for  here?

Thanks, Dan.
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by:nobus
ID: 41789874
filter for errors only..then post a screenshot of the ones you see most
when you select one - you get details on it in the lower window pane
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41790127
Tough choices.  Set on "Administrative Events" with "errors" selected, I got 1,224 errors.  Largest number were DistributedCOM, mostly Source "DistributedCom" type 1016 (194 of them) . Second were ServiceControlManager, EventID 7001 (180 of them).
2016-09-08--1-.png
2016-09-08.png
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by:nobus
ID: 41790749
yes- difficult choice
look if it is going on for a long time, and when it started, to find more info
i'm not sure if you did this already, but worth a try : run DISM

 Open cmd.exe with Run as Administrator.
 DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /Scanhealth (takes 15 - 20 minutes).
 DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /Restorehealth (takes 15 - 20 minutes).
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by:nobus
ID: 41829639
Dan - plse tell us how it is proceeding?
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41829724
Sorry for the delay. I took the machine to the shop where it was built, and recently serviced, (recall the ssd was replaced with a standard 1T drive).  Here is the report from the tech:
CUSTOMER BROUGHT IN A CUSTOM BUILD SYSTEM.
SYSTEM HAS INTERMITTENT FREEZES AND CRASHES. CLIENT NOTICED
THAT THE HARD DRIVE USAGE WOULD STAY AT 100% FOR EXTENDED
PERIODS OF TIME.
EVENT VIEWER HAS LOGGED OVER 1000 ERRORS.
WINDOWS 10 - SAVE USER DATA - PASSWD (pin): "****"
CHECKED HDDs FOR HARDWARE FAILURES. ALL TESTS CAME BACK
NEGATIVE.
WINDOWS 10 WOULD LOCK UP FOR EXTENDED PERIODS.
REFRESHED WINDOWS 10. SYSTEM RUNS FASTER. SOME PROGRAMS
NEED TO BE REINSTALLED.
DATA IS UNTOUCHED. RAN PERFORMANCE TWEAKING SOFTWARE TO
IMPROVE SYSTEM SPEED.
SCANNED DRIVES FOR VIRUSES. NO VIRUSES FOUND.

I've been using the machine for about 10 days.  It is now usable (I wrote a short paper, and made a powerpoint to go with it).  Occasionally the cursor "hangs" or slows down -- is jerky or irregular. I can't find any issues (watching task manager, etc.) to account for it.  It only lasts for 10 of 20 seconds, so it is manageable.

fyi, a lot of programs were removed. It took two days to get them back.  Not a fun thing.  Microsoft provided a list of programs removed; but it was wrong including things that weren't removed, and not mentioning things that were.  Very odd selection of things to remove.

Thank you all for your assistance. The thread can be closed.
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by:nobus
ID: 41830045
Dan, why not close it yourself, as you see Fit?
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41830069
I'd close it, but I don't know how.
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41830073
Make sure you can see the "Close Question" button lower left. Open your browser full screen if not. Click on that and then select the answers you choose.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41830109
No such button on my screen. Sorry.  dan
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41830131
Tell us which answers above and we will close the question for you.
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41830159
Done.  Thanks for your help.  dan
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by:nobus
ID: 41830320
it's still not closed from what i see
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41830444
I clicked on helpful answers, and hope  yoou will now close the case since the option to do so does not appear on my screen. Don't know why.  Thanks. Dan.
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41830473
Please let us know which answers you wish and we will close
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Author Comment

by:Dan Moerman
ID: 41830825
Look, I have all the answers I need. Please close this thread.  dan
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41830845
Question to be reopened at request of author
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