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Special door lock

Posted on 2016-10-30
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Last Modified: 2016-10-31
I need a door lock for front door, entrance in house, which can be locked/unlocked with keys from both sides, but from inside to have a special feature. I would need to be in such way that the key could never be forgotten inside or if it is forgotten, then to still be able to unlock it from outside.
It is a metal door at my parents’ house and I would like to prevent an unpleasant situation that happened when the key was forgotten inside, the door locked, the doorbell was ringing, but could not be heard or did not work properly...
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Question by:viki2000
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by:John Hurst
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ID: 41866148
I think I see your point.

Where I live, it is illegal to require a key to unlock the door from inside. Serious fire hazard.

We use a deadbolt and you need a key outside to lock the door. If A locks the door from inside while B is outside, yes you can lock them out. We have done that to each other.  But we can here doorbells.

Solutions:  Have a good hiding place for a key. Lots of people do this. The hiding place needs to be good and the issue is that it may be forgotten.

Have an outside door code to unlock the door. This is becoming more common.

Have a much louder doorbell.

There is no perfect solution but please do not lock anyone inside
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by:viki2000
ID: 41866168
Hi John,
Thank you for thoughts.
In mean time I checked this https://securitysnobs.com/Types-Of-Locks.html to understand more.
It is about my parents, over 75.
The person inside, my father, has a key and locked the door, there is a doorbell and even dogs. If my mom comes late then she has a key and opens from outside. But she cannot do it if my father forgets the key inside the door lock. Of course there is the doorbell and also the dogs that bark in case of such unpleasant situation. But there is a case when none of these work. Then it would be good if my mom could open the door from outside no matter if it was locked from inside and the key forgotten in the door lock.
That door is a strong metal door that gives access to a small entry yard and the house with the rooms are in the back. It is not a question of fire hazard.
As I was child, we had a special place to hide the key and we did that for many years, but now that is not practiced anymore, too many thieves and criminals. That is practiced only at some villages, but not anymore in the cities, at least not on the street where my parents live.
I just need a "special" door lock for them.
The code unlock is too sophisticated for them.
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John Hurst earned 250 total points
ID: 41866180
Schlage make amongst the best pickproof locks and keys.Approach a locksmith about a key or tool that can push the inside key out but still require a proper key to turn the lock.

The page you linked to are all variations of what I suggested / we discussed.

Why can a regular deadbolt not work? Dad does not need a key to lock; Mom can still get in; both go out you need to lock with a key outside and so cannot be locked out
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by:Tiras25
Tiras25 earned 125 total points
ID: 41866189
Hey Viki,
 I agree with John.  Its a fire hazard to require a key to open the door from inside.  When shit hits the fan you forget which way the door opens.  Forget about the key.  
However, a lot depends on where you are.  Here in US Home Depot, Lowes, even Walmart can custom order what you want.  Including a doube cylinder deadbolt.  

I also use a Master keybox outside my front door.  In case I lock myself out, or housekeeper, or girlfriend comes - I tell them a code.   They punch a code, open a box and key inside.  The box screws into the studs with eight 7" long screws.   Good luck breaking into it.  Easier to break the front door.
Kind of look like this: https://www.gokeyless.com/product/keyguard-sl590-wall-mount-pushbutton-lockbox/?gclid=CjwKEAjwtNbABRCsqO7J0_uJxWYSJAAiVo5LozryDelUnRx1gX-F8csN0Ei4OVPzj71Jvle3jjjQDBoC1czw_wcB

For my other country house I do keyless.  Similar to this: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fd2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2F5%2Fa%2Fcombination-lock-touchpad-deadbolt-electronic-no-key-entry-door-security-access-8284195c9c476e33b1ed783f1920cf76.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.terapeak.com%2Fworth%2Fcombination-lock-touchpad-deadbolt-electronic-no-key-entry-door-security-access%2F182086176843%2F&docid=nLWc_4Vt3OpYzM&tbnid=CfrJG6jyTkYnVM%3A&w=400&h=389&itg=1&bih=895&biw=1745&ved=0ahUKEwiO2IjBtYPQAhUmjFQKHX2gAyEQMwhrKAowCg&iact=mrc&uact=8
But you said it'll be too complex to your folks?
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points
ID: 41866190
Also, in case you are thinking different than me, a deadbolt is entirely separate from the door knob. The knob does not have a lock at all.
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by:Tiras25
ID: 41866199
The only real option that will meet all your needs is an electronic deadbolt.  You can get them with fingerprint readers or keypads or both.  They're not cheap, but if it prevents what happened from happening again it will be well worth it.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/iTouchless-Bio-Matic-Fingerprint-Silver-Right-Handle-Deadbolt-Door-Lock-BM002U/203052285

http://www.ebay.com/itm/iTouchless-Weather-Proof-Keyless-BioMetric-Fingerprint-Deadbolt-Door-Lock-BM002U-/350795685926
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41866201
You would want an exterior key override as mechanical fingerprints are definitely not foolproof
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by:Tiras25
ID: 41866204
Right on John.  They have batteries and start beeping when change required.  But elderly people may not hear it, I understand.

Sounds like what Viki want is close to what's called a Classroom Security lockset, or a commercial use locksets.

Stand alone double deadbolts are not recommended because a lost key can hinder egress in an emergency.
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by:aburr
ID: 41866268
John has the simple, cheap, foolproof solution.
"Why can a regular deadbolt not work? Dad does not need a key to lock; Mom can still get in; both go out you need to lock with a key outside and so cannot be locked out "
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by:viki2000
ID: 41866490
OK, I got it, "regular deadbolt".
Could you please suggest me some, eventually with pictures and prices?
I watched next: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-gc1RjxNgk

How about this "safety"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GS23gk56H8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTw1USPGXM4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtD72PA6FVI


Here is the 2nd restriction for the problem.
The existing door lock is a metal recessed/embedded type with handle similar with the 1st one, top picture from here (mortice lock):
http://www.igloohome.co/blog/smart-lock/the-basics-of-door-locks/
The door is metallic and the space allocated for the door lock has specific dimensions. It is not easy to install another door lock if has a different dimensions. It requires metal work on the door, which I would like to avoid as much as possible. If there is no other chance, then of course we call a specialist to modify the door for the new door lock, but I would prefer to avoid that step.
The door lock has handle to open/close the door and integrated a lock system.
A deadbolt seems to require additional installation work on that metal door.
I do not know now the dimensions of the existing door lock, but I will try to find out.
Actually the door lock is similar with this one and they use “big” keys:
http://mpc.assaabloy.com/yalefile//Fetchfile.aspx?id=11314&ft=.jpg&mh=420&mw=1020
I was thinking that if I use a similar type with similar dimensions but with cylinder as next one:
http://mpc.assaabloy.com/yalefile//Fetchfile.aspx?id=11316&ft=.jpg&mh=420&mw=1020
http://mpc.assaabloy.com/yalefile//Fetchfile.aspx?id=11319&ft=.jpg&mh=420&mw=1020
http://mpc.assaabloy.com/yalefile//Fetchfile.aspx?id=11308&ft=.jpg&mh=420&mw=1020
but the cylinder to have inside as you suggested at deadbolt, no key, but only something to turn and lock. I think that would be the best to be compatible with the existing system/metal door.
Any suggestions or comments in that direction?
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by:John Hurst
John Hurst earned 250 total points
ID: 41866672
I use the Schlage heavy duty deadbolt lock in my home and the locksmith that installed the locks said to get them at Home Depot, which I did.

I have two holes in the door: one for the regular knob to open and close the door and the second hole which is for the deadbolt.

I had to replace the residential locks a year or two ago and that is the point when I upgraded to Schlage.

I used a bonded locksmith to do this and to set all exterior keys the same.
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by:andyalder
andyalder earned 125 total points
ID: 41866694
Sounds like you want a double cylinder with anti-lockout.
https://www.locksonline.co.uk/Locksonline-EPS-Key-Security-Euro-Cylinders-with-Anti-Lockout.html
There's a video of it on that page.

Presumably your local locksmith can provide something similar,
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by:viki2000
ID: 41866734
I cannot get  a "bonded locksmith" in that area, only a locksmith.

The website https://www.locksonline.co.uk/ is down or I cannot access it.
Could you provide a link with another "double cylinder with anti-lockout"?
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41866797
A regular locksmith should be good enough. Get one who has been around locally for a while.
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by:viki2000
ID: 41866815
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41866819
You would need some help with local people. Cheap copies can break or stick (jam) so you would need some local guidance.
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by:viki2000
ID: 41866899
Now https://www.locksonline.co.uk/  is online again and I could see the recommendation.
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41866903
The one on the left looks OK. It is impossible for me to say from a totally different country what might work best for you. A common self-contained deadbolt lock is what you are looking for.
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by:viki2000
ID: 41866911
I think the situation is clear.
I will speak with the seller anyway before I buy something. Maybe we can find a local seller/dealer/locksmith to suggest what is available there in the town.
Tira25 had a good suggestion with the external KeyGuard Pro.
Thank you for all comments and suggestions.
It seems, after all, that was not a special door lock, but rather a common type.
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by:John Hurst
ID: 41866919
Thanks for the update and good luck with getting a good lock.
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