Replacement for Great Plain Dynamics
This is a tough problem for me. My family who run an agricultural business is dramatically downsizing due to changing economic forces in Florida agriculture. They have been using Great Plains Dynamics for more than 20 years but when they first started using it they were a multi million dollar company, now they are barely grossing $500,000. They use GP to manage all the aspects of their business from farm land and planting plots to inventory, packaging and shipping. They have a website that sells directly to home users but their biggest and main clients are wholesalers and resellers. They have asked me if I can recommend a replacement system because they want a solution that costs less to maintain and that is easier to learn and one that would allow their wholesalers to interact with them via a website to help reduce costs and improve service. Right now they use faxes, phone calls, and emails. Can anyone suggest a replacement solution or at least direct me to some resources where I can find a business management and accounting solution with all of the above in mind. Thanks!
ASKER
Hi Steve and thanks
are there any other required system integrations -- No
Are they using any third party products, such as industry specific add ons? -- YES but moving forward no needed
Do you know the actual total annual costs they have had maintaining the system? -- About $12000
Software renewal fees -- $5000 per year
Have you asked their Microsoft partner -- Yes and as low as possible (they actually say we are too small for GP)
are there any other required system integrations -- No
Are they using any third party products, such as industry specific add ons? -- YES but moving forward no needed
Do you know the actual total annual costs they have had maintaining the system? -- About $12000
Software renewal fees -- $5000 per year
Have you asked their Microsoft partner -- Yes and as low as possible (they actually say we are too small for GP)
Got it, thanks for the additional information.
Yes, it sounds like a QuickBooks or equivalent 'small business' solution would make sense. I would look at Quickbooks and Xero, and their web site integration options, to start to see if they might be possible fits. I suspect you could make something work for a very reasonable cost, but you'll need to budget some time for the data migration and transition.
The only difficulty I had when I started using Quickbooks was that it was difficult to find good help. Many people claimed to be QB consultants, but after going through three who were less than mediocre and had no experience using QB with a professional services organization (project accounting for my consulting work), I gave up and just had to learn on my own how to do what I needed done. Many QB consultants seem to know very basic QB processes, but more complex business and accounting processes (like what I typically see with my GP customers) seemed to exceed their skill level. But the benefit of QB is that it's so widely used that it's fairly easy to find info online.
Let me know if you have any additional questions or need any assistance transitioning off of GP (data extraction, etc.)
Thanks,
Steve Endow
Microsoft MVP - Dynamics GP
Yes, it sounds like a QuickBooks or equivalent 'small business' solution would make sense. I would look at Quickbooks and Xero, and their web site integration options, to start to see if they might be possible fits. I suspect you could make something work for a very reasonable cost, but you'll need to budget some time for the data migration and transition.
The only difficulty I had when I started using Quickbooks was that it was difficult to find good help. Many people claimed to be QB consultants, but after going through three who were less than mediocre and had no experience using QB with a professional services organization (project accounting for my consulting work), I gave up and just had to learn on my own how to do what I needed done. Many QB consultants seem to know very basic QB processes, but more complex business and accounting processes (like what I typically see with my GP customers) seemed to exceed their skill level. But the benefit of QB is that it's so widely used that it's fairly easy to find info online.
Let me know if you have any additional questions or need any assistance transitioning off of GP (data extraction, etc.)
Thanks,
Steve Endow
Microsoft MVP - Dynamics GP
ASKER
What about getting all the data out of GP--especially historical customer purchase history--can that be exported and imported? What format would you recommend? And of course all the contact related info....thanks!
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I do a lot of work with system migrations, and we generally create simple custom extracts that pull data from GP using SQL and convert it into a format that can be easily imported into the new system. And we always recommend backing up the full DB against future need, of course.
There are a number of low-cost solutions that should be workable with a business your size. I'm not a big fan of QuickBooks online, but we do both use and support the traditional "fat client" QuickBooks product. It is an excellent low-cost solution, and integrates nicely with a variety of other tools and extensions.
What functions are you looking for in the customer web portal, specifically?
There are a number of low-cost solutions that should be workable with a business your size. I'm not a big fan of QuickBooks online, but we do both use and support the traditional "fat client" QuickBooks product. It is an excellent low-cost solution, and integrates nicely with a variety of other tools and extensions.
What functions are you looking for in the customer web portal, specifically?
ASKER
What functions are you looking for in the customer web portal, specifically?
I am not sure what function I will need as I am researching now--my main goal is to have a solution that will allow online orders to be processed, orders created, packing slips created, and shipping labels generated so whatever solution allows for either an all in one solution (a full ecommerce site maybe) or some type of integration between the accounting software and the website. Then when it comes to the communicating with the vendors all we really need is for them to be able to see what is available in inventory and then place orders. We want to be able to improve our response to their requests for information with providing as much as possible online and then giving faster customer service.
I am not sure what function I will need as I am researching now--my main goal is to have a solution that will allow online orders to be processed, orders created, packing slips created, and shipping labels generated so whatever solution allows for either an all in one solution (a full ecommerce site maybe) or some type of integration between the accounting software and the website. Then when it comes to the communicating with the vendors all we really need is for them to be able to see what is available in inventory and then place orders. We want to be able to improve our response to their requests for information with providing as much as possible online and then giving faster customer service.
ASKER
I have looked at Xero as well as QuickBooks Pro and Enterprise; Xero's cost of $70 per month seems ridiculous to pay month after month and year after year. I am just too used to buying and owning stuff. There is also the apparent lack of it ability to download and import website orders automatically from both options although I must admit my work on these have been limited due to physical issues (left eye infected). I ahve looked at a few ecommerce and website cart solutions and it looks like I may have to consider a combination of some features provided by the ecommerce piece to provide some the features that Great Plains does now.
A few thoughts:
You really don't "buy and own" commercial software. Software publisher owns it, you just license it. So software-as-a-service really isn't significantly different on that account. Granted, you typically pay a hefty fee up front for traditional self-hosted software, and then smaller annual fees for licensing and/or support, but the costs are still there.
Earlier when Steve asked about costs of maintaining the existing system, you said:
I'm not sure exactly how that breaks down, but regardless of the number I use: $5k or $12K as your annual sot of using your current solution, Xero at $70/mo or $840 a year looks pretty attractive in comparisonif it meets your functional needs.
With a hosted system you don't have to worry about server hardware, server backups, server OS upgrades, server antivirus software, accounting software upgrades, server floorspace, server electricity: a whole host of time and money-consuming items. For small businesses like yours, SaaS is often, in my opinion, the best way to go. The main "con" of a hosted solution is that you lose access to it if you can't access the internet. So if you're somewhere that you don't have reliable internet, that could be a concern.
I'm not pitching Xero, in particular, but we're actually looking at using it for my company, and from what I've seen, it is pretty good stuff. You definitely can import invoices from other sources - it is just a CSV - so if you're a little technical, you can take output form just about any web commerce system, drop it into a CSV, and import it into Xero. Xero has existing integration to a number of eCommerce solutions, too.
What do you currently use for your eCommerce solution with GP, or do you?
- Gary
You really don't "buy and own" commercial software. Software publisher owns it, you just license it. So software-as-a-service really isn't significantly different on that account. Granted, you typically pay a hefty fee up front for traditional self-hosted software, and then smaller annual fees for licensing and/or support, but the costs are still there.
Earlier when Steve asked about costs of maintaining the existing system, you said:
Do you know the actual total annual costs they have had maintaining the system? -- About $12000
Software renewal fees -- $5000 per year
I'm not sure exactly how that breaks down, but regardless of the number I use: $5k or $12K as your annual sot of using your current solution, Xero at $70/mo or $840 a year looks pretty attractive in comparisonif it meets your functional needs.
With a hosted system you don't have to worry about server hardware, server backups, server OS upgrades, server antivirus software, accounting software upgrades, server floorspace, server electricity: a whole host of time and money-consuming items. For small businesses like yours, SaaS is often, in my opinion, the best way to go. The main "con" of a hosted solution is that you lose access to it if you can't access the internet. So if you're somewhere that you don't have reliable internet, that could be a concern.
I'm not pitching Xero, in particular, but we're actually looking at using it for my company, and from what I've seen, it is pretty good stuff. You definitely can import invoices from other sources - it is just a CSV - so if you're a little technical, you can take output form just about any web commerce system, drop it into a CSV, and import it into Xero. Xero has existing integration to a number of eCommerce solutions, too.
What do you currently use for your eCommerce solution with GP, or do you?
- Gary
ASKER
Except that you missed the most significant part of what I said and the reason why I am looking for a replacement, not to keep costs the same but to dramatically reduce them -- I said "dramatically downsizing due to changing economic forces in Florida agriculture"
No, I think I'm pretty clear on the mission: reduce software costs.
Above, Steve asked:
You responded:
I read that response to say that the current system costs about $12,000 per year to maintain, with $5,000 of that being annual software renewal fees. It isn't very clear what the $12K number means, but the the $5K part pretty seems pretty clear.
You said that Xero costs $70/mo = $840/year. How is that not a home run compared to $12K (or $5K for that matter)?
- Gary
Above, Steve asked:
Do you know the actual total annual costs they have had maintaining the system?
You responded:
About $12000 Software renewal fees -- $5000 per year
I read that response to say that the current system costs about $12,000 per year to maintain, with $5,000 of that being annual software renewal fees. It isn't very clear what the $12K number means, but the the $5K part pretty seems pretty clear.
You said that Xero costs $70/mo = $840/year. How is that not a home run compared to $12K (or $5K for that matter)?
- Gary
ASKER
I can't fault you for the conclusions you are making but in this case they are not definitive. While you are focused on current costs and how your proposals are saving SO MUCH money this does not help the people who have seen their business shrink from $1m per year to less than $250,000 and with debt out of their ears. So on their behalf I want to find something that they pay for and then be done with it, no ongoing costs something that these individuals can learn on their own, watching free youtube videos if need be. It may be easier to forget all the current numbers and think of a solution for a cash strapped stay at home Mom startup business who has inherited massive debts . I am thankful for the solutions already provided and the input given but as I said in my comments a few days ago, I have not had the time to spend on this because of health issues and trying to help a niece in New Zealand so if you will give me another week or two to get back into the swing of things I will try to devote some time to your suggestions, specifically about website and the software integration aspects of your suggestions. Again thanks for your time.
I'm a IT consultant, and own a small IT consulting company. Over my 30 years in IT and in business, I've dealt with more than a few troubled or failing businesses. I'm sorry they are having trouble, but it is a pretty familiar story. Issues you've described are bigger than $70 bucks a month for accounting software is going to be likely to solve.
If you're willing to put in the legwork, and have the time and expertise it requires, then why not look at look at free software. I'll suggest you take a look at Apache OFBiz. Also a number of free hosted solutions, like Wave. I'd need to know more about the business to make specific recommendations.
My first question for a client in the situation you describe is: "Is the business still viable?" Speaking selfishly, I certainly don't want to go in, make a bunch of changes to cut costs, and then get caught holding the bag when they declare bankruptcy or close the doors.
Business viability
Do liabilities exceed assets? Are the owners mounding up personal debt to continue to operate the business at a loss? Is there a reasonable prospect for a turnaround in the economic factors that have put the business in its current condition, or is this a permanent change in the economies of this kind of business? Are there new business development activities that have a reasonable chance of halting and reversing the revenue slide? CAN total costs be reduced to a low enough level where the business is profitable?
If the business isn't viable, then the smart strategy is to shut down and do something else that -is- profitable.
Law of diminishing returns
Yes, I focus on the numbers in situations like this. You're dealing with the law of diminishing returns with this type of cost cutting. So, triage. Make the big, fast, easy cuts first, then focus most of the efforts of the enterprise on new business development. 90% reduction in IT costs, now down to $70 buck a month from over $1K? Done. No server costs, so maintenance, backups taken care of, software professionally maintained, and big list of integration available for when business turns around.
Why spend more time and effort with DIY learning, DIY implementing, and DIY maintaining free software when the most you could possibly gain is $70/month? Move on to the next biggest budget line item. SaaS at $840 per year is a good deal compared to current costs, and it is turnkey and relatively future-proof.
Opportunity cost
Should your business owners be spending time watching YouTube videos trying to figure out how to save 70 bucks a month on accounting software? Probably not. In most cases, the time could be spent more productively in other cost-cutting and business development activities. There is a very real opportunity cost for every hour they spend engaged in anything other than bringing new business in. You can only cut costs so far without impeding the ability of the business to operate.
Nobody ever solved a revenue slide by cutting costs. They solved it by bringing in new business.
Finally, my advice for a stay-at-home mom with a startup business and huge debt is probably going to be: "Don't try to start a business - certainly not alone - when you're buried in debt. Take drastic measures to get your debt under control, get some money in the bank, and then start a (viable) business when you can properly fund it." Of course there are exceptions, but none that I see applying to the declining family business you describe. This isn't a start-up business - it is a declining business. Best management strategy for each is different.
Hope things get better for them - and you.
- Gary
If you're willing to put in the legwork, and have the time and expertise it requires, then why not look at look at free software. I'll suggest you take a look at Apache OFBiz. Also a number of free hosted solutions, like Wave. I'd need to know more about the business to make specific recommendations.
My first question for a client in the situation you describe is: "Is the business still viable?" Speaking selfishly, I certainly don't want to go in, make a bunch of changes to cut costs, and then get caught holding the bag when they declare bankruptcy or close the doors.
Business viability
Do liabilities exceed assets? Are the owners mounding up personal debt to continue to operate the business at a loss? Is there a reasonable prospect for a turnaround in the economic factors that have put the business in its current condition, or is this a permanent change in the economies of this kind of business? Are there new business development activities that have a reasonable chance of halting and reversing the revenue slide? CAN total costs be reduced to a low enough level where the business is profitable?
If the business isn't viable, then the smart strategy is to shut down and do something else that -is- profitable.
Law of diminishing returns
Yes, I focus on the numbers in situations like this. You're dealing with the law of diminishing returns with this type of cost cutting. So, triage. Make the big, fast, easy cuts first, then focus most of the efforts of the enterprise on new business development. 90% reduction in IT costs, now down to $70 buck a month from over $1K? Done. No server costs, so maintenance, backups taken care of, software professionally maintained, and big list of integration available for when business turns around.
Why spend more time and effort with DIY learning, DIY implementing, and DIY maintaining free software when the most you could possibly gain is $70/month? Move on to the next biggest budget line item. SaaS at $840 per year is a good deal compared to current costs, and it is turnkey and relatively future-proof.
Opportunity cost
Should your business owners be spending time watching YouTube videos trying to figure out how to save 70 bucks a month on accounting software? Probably not. In most cases, the time could be spent more productively in other cost-cutting and business development activities. There is a very real opportunity cost for every hour they spend engaged in anything other than bringing new business in. You can only cut costs so far without impeding the ability of the business to operate.
Nobody ever solved a revenue slide by cutting costs. They solved it by bringing in new business.
Finally, my advice for a stay-at-home mom with a startup business and huge debt is probably going to be: "Don't try to start a business - certainly not alone - when you're buried in debt. Take drastic measures to get your debt under control, get some money in the bank, and then start a (viable) business when you can properly fund it." Of course there are exceptions, but none that I see applying to the declining family business you describe. This isn't a start-up business - it is a declining business. Best management strategy for each is different.
Hope things get better for them - and you.
- Gary
ASKER
still trying to get back into the swing of things and getting caught up--haven't had the time to read last comments
ASKER
Still haven't had time to look at the web interface capabilities of the proposed solutions provided -- sorry but now my right eye is having the same issues and I am limited to very brief screen time each day. Thank you for your patience and help thus far. If I can't get time for this soon I will close the question.
ASKER
I spoke to Quickbooks via chat yesterday and they assured me they can work with most ecommerce platforms and can download data directly from shopping carts, however when I asked for details they could not provide any off hand -- unfortunately this is similar to many of my other interactions with Quickbooks over the last 15 plus years, big on promises but lacking in execution. Will try to find out more about Quickbooks but will try to get more details on Xero next.
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ASKER
The current ecommerce is Yahoo store (Business Solutions) and the reason we have to get away from it is because of all the Yahoo security problems, and now that Aabaco owns the part of their business their service sucks so we don't have much choice in the matter. And what we are looking for is either 1 or 5 for a small startup (that is how I have to approach this) as their current situation will be drastically different by June/July.
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ASKER
Thanks for all the time and help and although I do not have a solution yet my health issues make it tough to spend the time required to make a final choice so I will close for now with a thank you.
Happy to help Linoel. Sounds like a difficult situation all around. Post back or open another question if you need anything else.
Other than the web site integration, are there any other required system integrations? Are they using any third party products, such as industry specific add ons?
Do you know how many users they are licensed for? And how many concurrent users they actually need or use now? (check Help -> About)
Do you know the actual total annual costs they have had maintaining the system? And the breakout of software renewal fees vs. consulting fees? If they are paying annual maintenance on a larger user count that they originally purchased but have fewer users now, have you asked their Microsoft partner about reducing their user count to reduce the annual enhancement fees? The time and cost of transitioning to a new system should be considered to make sure that the effort will be worthwhile. I just want to see if lowering the annual costs of their current system might be possible.
The direct competitors in the Dynamics GP space are products like NetSuite, Acumatica, Intacct, but I am guessing that those will not produce significant savings for you, and would have moderate to significant implementation costs.
If simple and low cost is the goal, I would recommend QuickBooks or similar small business solution. Although I am a Dynamics GP consultant and have worked with GP for 13 years now, I use QuickBooks (desktop version) because it is unbelievably inexpensive given the functionality and value it provides, and because it more than meets my needs.
I'm not familiar with the eCommerce / web site integrations for QuickBooks, but if you can find a provider that integrates with QB (I'm assuming there are dozens), that may work. I have only heard negative comments about QuickBooks Online, so I would caution you to research that option carefully if you do consider it.
There are several QuickBooks competitors that are probably also worth looking into, such as those that are SaaS / web based solutions. I've heard positive things about Xero.
Let me know if you have any follow up questions.
Thanks,
Steve Endow
Microsoft MVP - Dynamics GP