Window 2016 Container vs Docker

compdigit44
compdigit44 used Ask the Experts™
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I am in the process of study to upgrade my MCSE 2012 to 2016 and having a hard time understanding the difference between a container and docker.
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Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
Docker is the tool Microsoft chose to handle their containers.

Author

Commented:
Thank you for the feedback. So a container is really the "app/ binaries" and the "Docker" is what manages the container correct? What other tools can manage windows containers?
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
Not quite. Docker is a formst, structure, etc as well.  The closest analogy (while not 100% accurate) is hyper-v and VMs.  Hyper-v is more than just a management tool. You can even use other tools to manage hyper-v VMs.  But hyoer-V is the *technology* that defines the VMs in a Microsoft way. You can't just take a VMWare VM and run it on Hyper-V as-is. They are different. Hyper-v (or VMWare) is the engine.

For containers on 2916, docker is an engine as well. It isn't just a management tool, although the docker command line fills that role just like Hyper-V Manager and PowerShell cmdlets do for Hyper-V. But there is more to docker than just the command line.

As to other tools, there are several. I don't know if, or how many, have been made compatible with server 2016 though. I *do* know that any such tools are out of scope for the 2016 exams.
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Author

Commented:
Ugh.. now I am confused...so if a Docker can also host images why did Microsoft just us their own Container? Still confused on why Docker is needed. Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else.
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
What is your question?
Top Expert 2016

Commented:
Windows Server 2016 has 3 types of containers.
Linux Docker Containers, use Ubuntu as the base
Windows Containers use the Windows OS as the base (and use the host kernel) http://windowsitpro.com/windows-server-2016/differences-between-windows-containers-and-hyper-v-containers-windows-server-201
Hyper-V (you're familiar with this)

Containers help solve the it runs on my machine dilemma that often happens between dev and prod. Containers are self contained, lower footprint, more scalable.

Yet another article: https://redmondmag.com/articles/2016/09/01/containers-vs-virtual-machines.aspx

Author

Commented:
Thanks everyone, I guess I am being dense and not getting is fully. So it a container really a concept and Docker really the program for lack of a better work that the container images use???
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
If you are bot familiar with the container concept, EE questions arent a good educational avenue. Too much knowledge to convey in bot enough space. A class, book, or similar is a better tool.

The MCSE exams are not beginner exams. Microsoft's MTA certification is for that. 70-740 conveys that you have *in-depth* expertise in 2916 Compute technologies (including containers.( not just passing in-the-news articles. I'd you want to pass that exam, you really do need to get your hands on some in-depth material. Which an EE question just can't provide.

Containers are a fundamentally different concept in computing. There is no simple direct comparison to anything else, which is why our answers are not ringing clear. It'd kinda like trying to explain the internet in-depth to someone who had only ever worked with 1960s computers who's only data method was lunch cards. You MAY get them to understand two computers wired together. But a vast mesh of machines sharing data, and the intricacies of packetization and routing? You could never explain it too them in a paragraph. Or two. Or three. The fundamentals are not there for them to build on. Such is containers.

Author

Commented:
I thank everyone for their feedback. I am not a beginner in the field and trying to upgrade my current certificates to 2016. I am just having a hard time wrapping my old head around containers.
Distinguished Expert 2018
Commented:
I think you may have misunderstood my last comment, or took it as an attack when it wasn't. Yes, I said the MCSE is not a beginner exam, but I never meant that to imply that you were a beginner.

I was illustrating the level of knowledge *on the subject matter* that the test is meant to convey. From Microsoft's perspective, an MCSA 2016 certificate holder, or an MCSE Cloud Infrastructure holder shows they know *those* technologies in-depth. Even an expert in 2012, who didn't learn the new concepts, can't claim that. If an employer hired someone based on that certificate, only to find that the person's knowledge of containers is what they read in a single article, it devalues the certificate, which hurts other MCSE holders, and in turn Microsoft itself.

While I obviously cannot ethically divulge any specific questions on the test, I can say that you can view the domain objectives.  The 2016 exams adds things like HNV, which is an *entirely* new concept for many people. OMS and ATP have both been added as domain objectives, which are uniquely different products and answering those questions requires having used and deployed those products. You'd never get the requisite knowledge from an EE question.

The most current tests have changed significantly on tested knowledge, and is reminiscent of the changes from 2003 to 2008 (around the MCITP shake-up) and holding older exams and knowledge doesn't "entitle" someone to claim knowledge they don't have. If you want the 2016 certification, you really need to *KNOW* containers. And that means hours in a test lab (of your own making or from a classroom) and solid material to work from to grasp everything from concept to implementation.

I had the benefit that I had seen containers in various implementations from Linux for a few years so have had years of exposure. But I spent a great deal of time studying and deploying virtual networks before taking my exam tests. There was no way I could expect someone from EE to convey the knowledge I had to absorb to pass that portion of the exam, and it was all new material to me. I just had to knuckle down and learn it. And I think my track record here and resume reflects that I am no beginner. But I was a beginner to *that* material, no doubt, There is no shame for me in admitting that.

Author

Commented:
Thank you for your feedback. I am sorry if you took my last post a defensive.. Thanks again for your guidance.

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