Mike Kristensen
asked on
What Accesspoint
Hi oracles.
Can you help me comparing 2 AP's?
One being UAP‑AC‑PRO from Ubiquiti.
Other being WAC6503D-S from Zyxel.
They really look alike each other, but the prices are very different and the management controller of the Ubiquiti system, seems more userfriendly but maybe also more limited.
They are both "Pro" models, with newest MIMO etc. etc. technologies. And made for pro deployment.
So im looking for a reason to pay way more for the Zyxel solution vs. the Ubiquiti solution.
Maybe a comparison, which im too stupid to find.
Looking forward to hear from you.
Best regards
Confused Mike Kristensen
Can you help me comparing 2 AP's?
One being UAP‑AC‑PRO from Ubiquiti.
Other being WAC6503D-S from Zyxel.
They really look alike each other, but the prices are very different and the management controller of the Ubiquiti system, seems more userfriendly but maybe also more limited.
They are both "Pro" models, with newest MIMO etc. etc. technologies. And made for pro deployment.
So im looking for a reason to pay way more for the Zyxel solution vs. the Ubiquiti solution.
Maybe a comparison, which im too stupid to find.
Looking forward to hear from you.
Best regards
Confused Mike Kristensen
ASKER
Its funny you mention Aerohive. We are using Aerohive right now. A old system with 22 x AP120's and 600 users.
It works fine, but getting old. And we havent upgraded the licensing and firmware of the controller, because Aerohive want us too pay alot for that. Almost same as what i could deploy 22 UniFi AC AP PRO for.
I got a Aerohive cloud AP130 on test, but with Aerohive i got to open specific ports etc. etc. and that actually leaves me with thinking why? Zyxel, Nebula, Meraki does asks me too open ports or anything. Why Aerohive?
And in Denmark, Aerohive is not big. There is like 2 resellers.
How much does the 2 systems differ? Could we stay happy, with over 1000 future users (150 devices on some AP's), if we picked the Ubiquiti system? We got a simple setup, with Radius authentication and nothing else.
Reliability, simplicity and stability is key/core focus.
It works fine, but getting old. And we havent upgraded the licensing and firmware of the controller, because Aerohive want us too pay alot for that. Almost same as what i could deploy 22 UniFi AC AP PRO for.
I got a Aerohive cloud AP130 on test, but with Aerohive i got to open specific ports etc. etc. and that actually leaves me with thinking why? Zyxel, Nebula, Meraki does asks me too open ports or anything. Why Aerohive?
And in Denmark, Aerohive is not big. There is like 2 resellers.
How much does the 2 systems differ? Could we stay happy, with over 1000 future users (150 devices on some AP's), if we picked the Ubiquiti system? We got a simple setup, with Radius authentication and nothing else.
Reliability, simplicity and stability is key/core focus.
Here is a question for you: what are you looking for in an access point?
I am familiar with the Ubiquiti, but not the Zyxel. That said, I would tell you that if you are somewhere with a high amount of interference then the Ubiquiti won't be the units for you, especially if you don't have the luxury of running cable to add more APs. I worked at a shop that preferred to sell Ubiquiti products and I ended up justifying selling a customer a Ruckus system instead. When i did the testing, i used a UAP-AC-PRO. The Ruckus was far better at overcoming interference. This was done at a hotel.
As for other weak points, I have seen the occasion where the controller loses contact with an AP but still shows like it is online. That forces a manual restart which is minor but tracing the issue is a pain. And support is basically non existent. Be ready to depend on forums and articles.
Now that I have pointed out the negative, they are very easy to set up and manage. And generally speaking they do work well. In a large percentage of use cases they are great units. While I did name s time that they did meet the needs, I have also set up a lot of networks using them without incident.
EDIT: Seeing the comment you posted and the number of users, Ruckus would suffer in terms of licensing costs as well.
While the Ubiquiti should be able to scale where you need for it to (I have done cases for a few hundred users but not 1000+), I honestly would not see it working as well as some of the other brands.
I am familiar with the Ubiquiti, but not the Zyxel. That said, I would tell you that if you are somewhere with a high amount of interference then the Ubiquiti won't be the units for you, especially if you don't have the luxury of running cable to add more APs. I worked at a shop that preferred to sell Ubiquiti products and I ended up justifying selling a customer a Ruckus system instead. When i did the testing, i used a UAP-AC-PRO. The Ruckus was far better at overcoming interference. This was done at a hotel.
As for other weak points, I have seen the occasion where the controller loses contact with an AP but still shows like it is online. That forces a manual restart which is minor but tracing the issue is a pain. And support is basically non existent. Be ready to depend on forums and articles.
Now that I have pointed out the negative, they are very easy to set up and manage. And generally speaking they do work well. In a large percentage of use cases they are great units. While I did name s time that they did meet the needs, I have also set up a lot of networks using them without incident.
EDIT: Seeing the comment you posted and the number of users, Ruckus would suffer in terms of licensing costs as well.
While the Ubiquiti should be able to scale where you need for it to (I have done cases for a few hundred users but not 1000+), I honestly would not see it working as well as some of the other brands.
You're looking at 20+ APs and 600 users?
* How will you manage the access points?
I haven't worked with Ubiquiti for several years, but last time there's no central administration.
With 20+ APs and 600 users you will need a central location for administration, ant last but not least monitoring(!).
I'd recommend looking into a solution with central administration, but not controller based. I work with Aruba Networks (a HPE company now :-) ), they have Instant APs.
Instant AP: configure and set up 1st AP which will be MASTER - the next 19APs will inherit configuration and report monitoring back to MASTER. if the master AP goes offline, another AP will automatically take over MASTER ROLE. no downtime, full redundancy in terms of configuration and monitoring. Troubleshoot users across all APs from one web page.
This solution can also be extended to include a cloud based monitoring and managing system, if you have several locations. This also supports Zero Touch Provisioning. Customer needs another AP - just send it directly to customer, log on to your portal and set configuration for AP - customer connects AP which is up and running immediately.
Central also have guest networks with self-service account provisioning, sms passwords, social login ready.
Instant AP have guest portal with Captive portal login.
You could look into Instant AP205 (802.11ac wave1) or Instant AP305 (802.11ac wave2)
Cisco Meraki also have similar setups
* How will you manage the access points?
I haven't worked with Ubiquiti for several years, but last time there's no central administration.
With 20+ APs and 600 users you will need a central location for administration, ant last but not least monitoring(!).
I'd recommend looking into a solution with central administration, but not controller based. I work with Aruba Networks (a HPE company now :-) ), they have Instant APs.
Instant AP: configure and set up 1st AP which will be MASTER - the next 19APs will inherit configuration and report monitoring back to MASTER. if the master AP goes offline, another AP will automatically take over MASTER ROLE. no downtime, full redundancy in terms of configuration and monitoring. Troubleshoot users across all APs from one web page.
This solution can also be extended to include a cloud based monitoring and managing system, if you have several locations. This also supports Zero Touch Provisioning. Customer needs another AP - just send it directly to customer, log on to your portal and set configuration for AP - customer connects AP which is up and running immediately.
Central also have guest networks with self-service account provisioning, sms passwords, social login ready.
Instant AP have guest portal with Captive portal login.
You could look into Instant AP205 (802.11ac wave1) or Instant AP305 (802.11ac wave2)
Cisco Meraki also have similar setups
also - look like neither are 802.11ac wave2 APs
ASKER
Here is a demo of Ubiquiti central management. It is a Windows/Ubuntu/Linux installed program, which then after works over the browser: https://demo.ubnt.com/manage/site/default
Its free forever.
Aruba seems cool, but for now the price difference between 2 AP's that uses same standards and has same hardware, is 1/3. Ubiquiti will cost us 1/3 of the Aruba setup. Compare Aruba IAP305 to Ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO.
We will offcourse only buy AP's with the newest standards. Its all a brand comparison, where Ubiquiti just seems too cheap to underestimate.
And still they are already deployed in airports, schools and companies.
Im trying to find this gap between the brand, that could make us choose Zyxel, Aruba, Meraki, Aerohive over the extremely cheap Ubiquiti solution.
Its free forever.
Aruba seems cool, but for now the price difference between 2 AP's that uses same standards and has same hardware, is 1/3. Ubiquiti will cost us 1/3 of the Aruba setup. Compare Aruba IAP305 to Ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO.
We will offcourse only buy AP's with the newest standards. Its all a brand comparison, where Ubiquiti just seems too cheap to underestimate.
And still they are already deployed in airports, schools and companies.
Im trying to find this gap between the brand, that could make us choose Zyxel, Aruba, Meraki, Aerohive over the extremely cheap Ubiquiti solution.
I'm not sure about the pricing in your area, but the Instant AP305 compares to UAP-AC-HD (which is the only 802.11ac wave2 AP from Ubiquiti it seems).
IAP305 - $500 - $650 depending on supplier in US
UAP-AC-HD $350
So - there's still a difference in pricing, but far from the UAP-AC-PRO which is priced at $150. But the PRO is not 802.11ac wave2. The main difference between wave1 and wave2 is support for multi-user MIMO - which enables the AP to send and receive data to mulitple wireless stations at the same time, where as wave1 (and 802.11n) only can send and receive to one client at simultaniously. (like a road with only one lane, compared to a 3 lane road).
UAP-AC-HD - https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_UAP-AC-HD_DS.pdf
IAP305 - http://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/ds/DS_AP300Series.pdf
IAP305:
* includes a DPI firewall. Get wireless QoS on voice/video, classification on traffic, web Content control and AppRF for application classification - block application types from accessing, or limit bandwidth for application types.
* WIreless IDP and mitigation to attacks, rogue detection and containment
* deployment without any installation of software, software integrated in Instant AP
* Client Match for RF planning and management (send/receive power, band and channel selection, trying to move clients between APs and bands),
IAP305 - $500 - $650 depending on supplier in US
UAP-AC-HD $350
So - there's still a difference in pricing, but far from the UAP-AC-PRO which is priced at $150. But the PRO is not 802.11ac wave2. The main difference between wave1 and wave2 is support for multi-user MIMO - which enables the AP to send and receive data to mulitple wireless stations at the same time, where as wave1 (and 802.11n) only can send and receive to one client at simultaniously. (like a road with only one lane, compared to a 3 lane road).
UAP-AC-HD - https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_UAP-AC-HD_DS.pdf
IAP305 - http://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/ds/DS_AP300Series.pdf
IAP305:
* includes a DPI firewall. Get wireless QoS on voice/video, classification on traffic, web Content control and AppRF for application classification - block application types from accessing, or limit bandwidth for application types.
* WIreless IDP and mitigation to attacks, rogue detection and containment
* deployment without any installation of software, software integrated in Instant AP
* Client Match for RF planning and management (send/receive power, band and channel selection, trying to move clients between APs and bands),
ASKER
To gief users the best experience you will want to put them on 5 Ghz. Thats MAIN goal.
To do this effeciently, you would need a AP in each room. As soon there is a wall 5 Ghz. isent strong and 2,4Ghz. is preferred, which is bad.
The conclusion here is: "We need AP in each room to archive BEST performance.
Next thing is MU-MIMO which is great. But the AP's with MU-MIMO often support 500 users, which is insane in a classroom or at many other places.
Due to the fact, that you want a AP in each room to archive 5 Ghz. you could defend not going for the MU-MIMO AP vs. the much cheaper and still very well performing MIMO solution. Which also lets you buy more AP's.
And therefore you could actually defend that buying 15 MU-MIMO AP's vs. 20 MIMO AP's, actually would give you a cheaper and performance wise a better solution, due to the securing of 5 Ghz.
Is that a fair theory?
And our firewall does all the other stuff with ADP, IDP, app control
To do this effeciently, you would need a AP in each room. As soon there is a wall 5 Ghz. isent strong and 2,4Ghz. is preferred, which is bad.
The conclusion here is: "We need AP in each room to archive BEST performance.
Next thing is MU-MIMO which is great. But the AP's with MU-MIMO often support 500 users, which is insane in a classroom or at many other places.
Due to the fact, that you want a AP in each room to archive 5 Ghz. you could defend not going for the MU-MIMO AP vs. the much cheaper and still very well performing MIMO solution. Which also lets you buy more AP's.
And therefore you could actually defend that buying 15 MU-MIMO AP's vs. 20 MIMO AP's, actually would give you a cheaper and performance wise a better solution, due to the securing of 5 Ghz.
Is that a fair theory?
And our firewall does all the other stuff with ADP, IDP, app control
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With 5 Ghz. the intereference problems are reduced. So that is the aim. . . I can do that by making users connect to 5 Ghz. But this should happen automatically. Not forced. We need to rely on the manufacturer deciding when 2,4Ghz is besst to use. That why 5 Ghz. should happen due to the correct setup, and not forcing.
The AP-AC-PRO is 802.11ac: https://www.ubnt.com/unifi
I will get a AP-AC-PRO today and set it up between 4 classrooms, to test the connection to 5 Ghz. and the overall performance.
I still cant see how Wave2 could make a better network for us. Ofc. theoretically it would, but the price difference as you mention at least on the Ubiquiti devices are MASSIVE.
I could actually build a full school WiFi with very new technology (despite the "Multi User" MU), for less than 4000 dollars.
*We use Radius from a outside handled server. Very simple.
*A free management program for the UniFi network. Seems oki, will be testing more.
*The troubleshooting also depends on the management system.
*Internet service. It works. Nothing more
*Dont know. More.
The AP-AC-PRO is 802.11ac: https://www.ubnt.com/unifi
I will get a AP-AC-PRO today and set it up between 4 classrooms, to test the connection to 5 Ghz. and the overall performance.
I still cant see how Wave2 could make a better network for us. Ofc. theoretically it would, but the price difference as you mention at least on the Ubiquiti devices are MASSIVE.
I could actually build a full school WiFi with very new technology (despite the "Multi User" MU), for less than 4000 dollars.
*We use Radius from a outside handled server. Very simple.
*A free management program for the UniFi network. Seems oki, will be testing more.
*The troubleshooting also depends on the management system.
*Internet service. It works. Nothing more
*Dont know. More.
i agree - at that price diff, it's hard to justify 802.11ac wave2 over wave1.
Well done, getting an AP for testing coverage - better than guessing.
I cannot say anything for UBNTs software, but i know for sure that the Aruba Instants or cloud solution would without a doubt fit the bill for you. But again - $
the Aruba will handle balancing of bands, channels and channels for you, using Client Match. at the end, the AP and band choice is down to the wireless client
Well done, getting an AP for testing coverage - better than guessing.
I cannot say anything for UBNTs software, but i know for sure that the Aruba Instants or cloud solution would without a doubt fit the bill for you. But again - $
the Aruba will handle balancing of bands, channels and channels for you, using Client Match. at the end, the AP and band choice is down to the wireless client
I have Ubiquiti, Ruckus and Aerohive at clients sites, so I dont know what the Zyxel is like.
I can vouch that the Ubiquiti is great gear, I was a huge Ruckus fan until I found Aerohive. I have two big clients (160 staff each) where we run Vocera - one has Ruckus the other Aerohive, and I can say the Aerohive has one me over. Ubiquiti would be my next choice.
Have a look at the aerohive gear