Diagnosing a Dissappearing Hard Drive
I have a new Lenovo M900 tower with Windows 10 Pro.
It boots from an SSD (C:).
It has a 4TB HDD (D:).
The D: drive has been disappearing so, in order to diagnose:
I wiggled the power and data connectors and the HDD came back for a while.
Then I replaced the data cable and the HDD came back for a while.
Then I removed the HDD and put it on another computer for testing. It's running there now.
And, I added another new HDD to the computer for testing. It's running there now.
At first, the BIOS could see the HDD but when I looked, it only listed it as "Hard Drive" but with no model number .. I believe that "normal" includes the model number showing up in the BIOS.
The replacement HDD shows up with its model number.
So, I did an experiment:
What if the power connector is disconnected? In this case the BIOS shows "None"
What if the data connection is disconnected? In this case the BIOS also shows "None".
So I don't know what would cause the BIOS to show only: "Hard Drive" and no model number.
Unless or until one of these tests fails, I don't know what might be causing this problem.
One thing that I don't like about this computer is that the SATA device power comes off the main board with a couple of square 4-pin connectors (i.e. 2x2 pins) using 4-conductor cabling. So it's not like your grandfather's ATX arrangement. If the power were bad then one could replace the PSU. But, in this case, if the power is bad because of the mobo then the impact of the failure is much greater. A bad solder joint on the board side of those 4-pin connectors would do it.
You may be able to help by giving a reason why the BIOS would show "Hard Drive" only with no model number..... Where would you be looking for this failure?
It boots from an SSD (C:).
It has a 4TB HDD (D:).
The D: drive has been disappearing so, in order to diagnose:
I wiggled the power and data connectors and the HDD came back for a while.
Then I replaced the data cable and the HDD came back for a while.
Then I removed the HDD and put it on another computer for testing. It's running there now.
And, I added another new HDD to the computer for testing. It's running there now.
At first, the BIOS could see the HDD but when I looked, it only listed it as "Hard Drive" but with no model number .. I believe that "normal" includes the model number showing up in the BIOS.
The replacement HDD shows up with its model number.
So, I did an experiment:
What if the power connector is disconnected? In this case the BIOS shows "None"
What if the data connection is disconnected? In this case the BIOS also shows "None".
So I don't know what would cause the BIOS to show only: "Hard Drive" and no model number.
Unless or until one of these tests fails, I don't know what might be causing this problem.
One thing that I don't like about this computer is that the SATA device power comes off the main board with a couple of square 4-pin connectors (i.e. 2x2 pins) using 4-conductor cabling. So it's not like your grandfather's ATX arrangement. If the power were bad then one could replace the PSU. But, in this case, if the power is bad because of the mobo then the impact of the failure is much greater. A bad solder joint on the board side of those 4-pin connectors would do it.
You may be able to help by giving a reason why the BIOS would show "Hard Drive" only with no model number..... Where would you be looking for this failure?
SOLUTION
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Something like this https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-Molex-Power-Adapter-SATAPOWADAP/dp/B00009YFTI is my suggestion.
ASKER
Experienced Member: You would start to look .... where? I have lots of computers with hard drives that don't lose connection. I don't know what to conclude from your rather common experience of hard drives behaving normally.
dbrunton: I have plenty of those around. Unfortunately this computer doesn't have ANY Molex connectors. There are only two connectors coming out of the PSU. One is a 2x5 / 9-conductor "P1" and one is a standard 4-pin 12v. But, you've given me an idea: I have an external 115vac to Molex connector supply for external hard drives. So, if power is a question then this might help eliminate it.
Or, I might split out the power from the other mobo 4-pin connector.
Oh! Aha! The SSD is runnning off the same mobo 4-pin connector as the HDD. So this gets the possiblility of power failure down to the last connector in the SATA power daisy chain .. possible but not very likely. And it takes the mobo power out of consideration.
So thanks for that nudge!!
Perhaps I should lean toward trying another SATA port.... I've surely done that before.
Now if the darned thing would just fail again.....
dbrunton: I have plenty of those around. Unfortunately this computer doesn't have ANY Molex connectors. There are only two connectors coming out of the PSU. One is a 2x5 / 9-conductor "P1" and one is a standard 4-pin 12v. But, you've given me an idea: I have an external 115vac to Molex connector supply for external hard drives. So, if power is a question then this might help eliminate it.
Or, I might split out the power from the other mobo 4-pin connector.
Oh! Aha! The SSD is runnning off the same mobo 4-pin connector as the HDD. So this gets the possiblility of power failure down to the last connector in the SATA power daisy chain .. possible but not very likely. And it takes the mobo power out of consideration.
So thanks for that nudge!!
Perhaps I should lean toward trying another SATA port.... I've surely done that before.
Now if the darned thing would just fail again.....
We use Lenovo-supplied manufacturer's hard drives when need to replace or added and have no problems. We do not use third party drives. That is why I suggested looking in this direction.
Are the disconnecting drives third party or from the manufacturer?
Are the disconnecting drives third party or from the manufacturer?
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SOLUTION
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SOLUTION
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The problem only occurs when the hard disk is attached to the Lenovo. On another machine it is OK.
So I feel you do have to test with another source of power for this hard drive while attached to the Lenovo. You indicate that you do have an auxiliary power supply for testing. On the Lenovo there may be enough for the SSD but not enough for both the SSD and the hard drive together. A SSD has less draw then a hard disk so it may be tolerant of power drops while the hard disk isn't.
So I feel you do have to test with another source of power for this hard drive while attached to the Lenovo. You indicate that you do have an auxiliary power supply for testing. On the Lenovo there may be enough for the SSD but not enough for both the SSD and the hard drive together. A SSD has less draw then a hard disk so it may be tolerant of power drops while the hard disk isn't.
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Just to be clear: This is a stock OEM Lenovo M900 tower model. The drives, cables, etc. came with the computer. I've had it all of a few days and there have been no mod's done to it. The "Lenovo" HDD is a Seagate
After running tests with the Lenovo HDD in another computer and another HDD in the Lenovo, I saw no failures in 18 hours.
Then I put everything back as it was delivered.
Then I swapped the HDD from SATA 3 to SATA 4 just in case the SATA 3 port is flaky.
No more failures so far today.
I remain skeptical.
nobus: Great idea! There is a 24-pin to 10-pin adaptor cable availabile that would allow using a standard ATX PSU.
David Johnson: re: "initializing"... the HDD disappears *after* it's been running OK and with no reboots. ??
I would like to add another HDD and it appears there's space. But the right adapter would be nice. I suppose HDD side rails into the 5.5" space would be the approach. Of course I'd then have to use SATA3 as it's the only one remaining unused. But maybe that would be a good ongoing test. There is still a good warranty which may be needed.
Thanks all for the ideas!
After running tests with the Lenovo HDD in another computer and another HDD in the Lenovo, I saw no failures in 18 hours.
Then I put everything back as it was delivered.
Then I swapped the HDD from SATA 3 to SATA 4 just in case the SATA 3 port is flaky.
No more failures so far today.
I remain skeptical.
nobus: Great idea! There is a 24-pin to 10-pin adaptor cable availabile that would allow using a standard ATX PSU.
David Johnson: re: "initializing"... the HDD disappears *after* it's been running OK and with no reboots. ??
I would like to add another HDD and it appears there's space. But the right adapter would be nice. I suppose HDD side rails into the 5.5" space would be the approach. Of course I'd then have to use SATA3 as it's the only one remaining unused. But maybe that would be a good ongoing test. There is still a good warranty which may be needed.
Thanks all for the ideas!
Since it is all Lenovo , have you considered calling Lenovo Support? We have a few machines with two drives and connection is solid.
for the 5.5" bay use an adapter : startech-punt-com-35inch-h
ASKER
Thanks all for the great ideas!
It turned out that this new computer has Intel Rapid Storage Technology installed. It reports the HDD is failing. So, John Griffith had effectively suggested that kind of test and David Johnson nailed the cause. Other ideas very useful for this computer.
It turned out that this new computer has Intel Rapid Storage Technology installed. It reports the HDD is failing. So, John Griffith had effectively suggested that kind of test and David Johnson nailed the cause. Other ideas very useful for this computer.
Our Lenovo Desktops have Intel RST installed and it does not affect working hard drives.
ASKER
Thanks all!
Thank you.
Are you using Lenovo-supplied drives?
That is where I would start to look.