Car battery mystery
Car owner only drives the 90 Honda Accord about 1-2 times a week.
In the last few months AAA has come out about an unknown inability of the battery to start the car, a relative suggested a mechanic at a small shop and it was towed there, and I took the car to Advanced Auto parts for a 100% free analysis of battery, starter, alternator. Their equipment spit out a report saying:
battery: good needs charging
CCA: 385 (this car should take at least 550-575-600)
So I am ignored when I suggest that the battery needs to go to AAP for a free overnight charge to get the battery to as close to 100% healthy as possible. This battery is less than a year old if you believe AAA. I do not trust service persons of any kind due to constant ripoffs. The last people I'd listen to is AAA. I want to take the battery to be charged over night for free since they do not charge and "then" begin to monitor this unknown fan related drain on the battery.
No telling how "used" the battery was before AAA put new stickers on it.
I have been called to the car owner's house 3 times to jump start the battery, it starts and holds a charge until at least the next day.
This car owner thinks they can let the car run in the driveway 15-20 minutes and that is the same as driving it around town at higher speeds. Don't higher rpm's increase the ability of the alternator to charge the battery?
A friend of the car owner, AAA, and the car owner keep going back to some fan that stays on after the engine is turned off.
This car was towed to the small shop a couple months ago. They secured or hooked up one wire and the cost was $52. Labor was $50. They only got the car "running" and I was called to go help the owner take the car home. I personally asked this mechanic about a fan related drain. He said that there is a fan that is supposed to stay on after the engine is turned off, it cools the engine down, and then a thermostat turns the fan off.
Now the car owner says that they and their mechanically inclined friend and AAA pretty much agree that is is some blue thing. The word fuse was used. Blue fuses are usually 15 amps.
Now they say that they have witnessed the fan running when the engine was totally cooled down. And some action, removing or installing the fuse causes the car to start or not start all the while directly related to this fan. This fan which they say is the cause of the battery drain.
My opinion which is ignored is that all of these people are trying to solve a battery drain issue with a battery that only has 385 CCA.
Now the car has been towed back to the mechanic for an oil change and adding of transmission fluid. This mechanic is not charging the battery, they are only getting the car to run. It goes home with the owner and days later no start due to battery - "mystery" fan problem.
This person is considering getting another car because of the continued car problems which are all battery related.
Something always draining the battery. I hear it weekly from the car owner. They are trying to solve a battery drain issue with a battery that has only 385 CCA.
What are all of your opinions?
In the last few months AAA has come out about an unknown inability of the battery to start the car, a relative suggested a mechanic at a small shop and it was towed there, and I took the car to Advanced Auto parts for a 100% free analysis of battery, starter, alternator. Their equipment spit out a report saying:
battery: good needs charging
CCA: 385 (this car should take at least 550-575-600)
So I am ignored when I suggest that the battery needs to go to AAP for a free overnight charge to get the battery to as close to 100% healthy as possible. This battery is less than a year old if you believe AAA. I do not trust service persons of any kind due to constant ripoffs. The last people I'd listen to is AAA. I want to take the battery to be charged over night for free since they do not charge and "then" begin to monitor this unknown fan related drain on the battery.
No telling how "used" the battery was before AAA put new stickers on it.
I have been called to the car owner's house 3 times to jump start the battery, it starts and holds a charge until at least the next day.
This car owner thinks they can let the car run in the driveway 15-20 minutes and that is the same as driving it around town at higher speeds. Don't higher rpm's increase the ability of the alternator to charge the battery?
A friend of the car owner, AAA, and the car owner keep going back to some fan that stays on after the engine is turned off.
This car was towed to the small shop a couple months ago. They secured or hooked up one wire and the cost was $52. Labor was $50. They only got the car "running" and I was called to go help the owner take the car home. I personally asked this mechanic about a fan related drain. He said that there is a fan that is supposed to stay on after the engine is turned off, it cools the engine down, and then a thermostat turns the fan off.
Now the car owner says that they and their mechanically inclined friend and AAA pretty much agree that is is some blue thing. The word fuse was used. Blue fuses are usually 15 amps.
Now they say that they have witnessed the fan running when the engine was totally cooled down. And some action, removing or installing the fuse causes the car to start or not start all the while directly related to this fan. This fan which they say is the cause of the battery drain.
My opinion which is ignored is that all of these people are trying to solve a battery drain issue with a battery that only has 385 CCA.
Now the car has been towed back to the mechanic for an oil change and adding of transmission fluid. This mechanic is not charging the battery, they are only getting the car to run. It goes home with the owner and days later no start due to battery - "mystery" fan problem.
This person is considering getting another car because of the continued car problems which are all battery related.
Something always draining the battery. I hear it weekly from the car owner. They are trying to solve a battery drain issue with a battery that has only 385 CCA.
What are all of your opinions?
thanks, i had never heard of CCA before
ASKER
cold cranking amps.
John: car owner prefers to trust those who they say are nice.
Nice does not make them honest.
John: car owner prefers to trust those who they say are nice.
Nice does not make them honest.
First, your battery is too small (but you already know that). Yes, the smaller battery could be the cause of the problem. Magic word, could but not guaranteed.
Second, yes, the fan may run after the engine has turned off. That is to cool off the water in the radiator. There may be excess heat to dispel but it should not run for long. If it is running for too long then you have possible causes: faulty thermostat, clogged radiator, no anti-freeze, poor condition radiator hoses (possible but unlikely), bad wiring (unlikely but in this case possible), faulty relay (I don't think the thermostat will connect directly to the battery but run through relay), low water level in radiator and overflow bottle. When was the last time the water in the system was changed? Or flushed? Or checked? Or anti-freeze changed?
How long does the fan run after the car has stopped? 30 secs? 1 minute? 2 minutes? If it is 2 minutes then there is a serious problem with the cooling system. And if running too long it will flatten the battery.
If there is a blue fuse and it is 15 amps that means the circuit is a heavy current user. (That means the battery will flatten quickly)
>> Don't higher rpm's increase the ability of the alternator to charge the battery?
Well, yes, but it depends on when the alternator reaches max charge. Idling will charge but NOT at maximum. Driving around town or freeway is far better. But you'd need to consult the manufacturer as to what optimum revs is. Manufacturers don't design alternators to produce maximum output at idling. It costs money and is heavy.
If there is no power to the fan (fuse removed) then quite probably the car won't start. It is probably smart enough to know that the fan won't work.
Second, yes, the fan may run after the engine has turned off. That is to cool off the water in the radiator. There may be excess heat to dispel but it should not run for long. If it is running for too long then you have possible causes: faulty thermostat, clogged radiator, no anti-freeze, poor condition radiator hoses (possible but unlikely), bad wiring (unlikely but in this case possible), faulty relay (I don't think the thermostat will connect directly to the battery but run through relay), low water level in radiator and overflow bottle. When was the last time the water in the system was changed? Or flushed? Or checked? Or anti-freeze changed?
How long does the fan run after the car has stopped? 30 secs? 1 minute? 2 minutes? If it is 2 minutes then there is a serious problem with the cooling system. And if running too long it will flatten the battery.
If there is a blue fuse and it is 15 amps that means the circuit is a heavy current user. (That means the battery will flatten quickly)
>> Don't higher rpm's increase the ability of the alternator to charge the battery?
Well, yes, but it depends on when the alternator reaches max charge. Idling will charge but NOT at maximum. Driving around town or freeway is far better. But you'd need to consult the manufacturer as to what optimum revs is. Manufacturers don't design alternators to produce maximum output at idling. It costs money and is heavy.
If there is no power to the fan (fuse removed) then quite probably the car won't start. It is probably smart enough to know that the fan won't work.
ASKER
dbrunton
The battery is not 385 CCA. That is the result of a battery test when the car owner was having intermittent and regular weekly episodes of the car not starting.
The required battery would be 550-600 CCA or higher. The correct battery appears to be Group 24.
The battery is not 385 CCA. That is the result of a battery test when the car owner was having intermittent and regular weekly episodes of the car not starting.
The required battery would be 550-600 CCA or higher. The correct battery appears to be Group 24.
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>> The battery is not 385 CCA.
My mistake. Then undercharged battery but why? Would look at fan belt tension for starters. Running around town should keep this battery charged.
My mistake. Then undercharged battery but why? Would look at fan belt tension for starters. Running around town should keep this battery charged.
ASKER
The car owner can not drive the car but maybe 2-3 times a week or willing to allow me to personally get the battery charged completely overnight and the places that will do it do not charge. Autozone and Advanced Auto Parts. However the first told me the battery was bad and had a bad cell. 10 minutes later AAP said the battery was good and just needed charging and was around 385 CCA. Weak but not a dead battery. I even asked if we bought a new one today and did not drive the car for 3 weeks what would be the result. They said a dead battery.
Car owner only drives the 90 Honda Accord about 1-2 times a week.is that enough to recharge the small battery?
Not really. I have to ensure our low mileage wagon gets a workout every couple of weeks.
ASKER
dbrunton:
why undercharged:
a. Owner can not drive it more than about 2-3 times a week.
b. Owner refuses to let others take turns driving it a time or two a week.
c. AAA and friend say it's the fan. Car owner is agreeing with them.
24 hour a day worry about the battery and costly tows and mechanic bills and the problem is never solved.
I offered to keep the car for one week and get it fixed at NO cost to them and no cost to me.
why undercharged:
a. Owner can not drive it more than about 2-3 times a week.
b. Owner refuses to let others take turns driving it a time or two a week.
c. AAA and friend say it's the fan. Car owner is agreeing with them.
24 hour a day worry about the battery and costly tows and mechanic bills and the problem is never solved.
I offered to keep the car for one week and get it fixed at NO cost to them and no cost to me.
If you can get the car, put it in a quiet spot and turn the engine off. If the fan is running, you will hear it. My wagon fan runs for 2 or 3 minutes (maybe 5) in very hot weather. In cool weather it never runs after shutting off.
>> Is that enough to recharge the small battery?
Yes, with some qualifications. What circumstances (eg day or night) are they driving in? And distance?
10-20 km or more should have that battery pretty well charged in day time. That is typical of my driving and keeps my small Nissans charged.
Why don't they have a battery charger? 12 hours on that should get that battery up to full charge and they aren't using that car full time. The battery charger would be cheaper than the mechanic.
>> However the first told me the battery was bad and had a bad cell.
That would explain some of the problems. An overnight charge and a retest would soon find that out. If it is still 385 CCA then time to biff. And how old is this battery?
Yes, with some qualifications. What circumstances (eg day or night) are they driving in? And distance?
10-20 km or more should have that battery pretty well charged in day time. That is typical of my driving and keeps my small Nissans charged.
Why don't they have a battery charger? 12 hours on that should get that battery up to full charge and they aren't using that car full time. The battery charger would be cheaper than the mechanic.
>> However the first told me the battery was bad and had a bad cell.
That would explain some of the problems. An overnight charge and a retest would soon find that out. If it is still 385 CCA then time to biff. And how old is this battery?
ASKER
Battery under 1 year old and provided by AAA and this is the 2nd or 3rd time they have replaced the battery.
I trust the devil over AAA.
They had a new wall charger and did not charge it as required and now it is dead.
I trust the devil over AAA.
They had a new wall charger and did not charge it as required and now it is dead.
I do not know how AAA works. I use CAA here and the batteries are top notch and trouble-free. I use them because modern batteries do not die slowly, rather they start the car and fail to restart in some location where I need mobile service. But this is when the battery is getting on in years.
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I have had cooling system failures (not long term degradation) that have not affected charging. Worth looking at but battery and state of charge is at the top of the list.
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ASKER
Advanced Auto Parts checked voltage with their testing equipment. 12 volts as normal. They asked me to turn the engine off. They hooked up their equipment again and that piece of testing equipment spit out a detailed test result report.
Battery: good, needs charge
385 cca.
I just talked to the mechanic and they changed the oil, added transmission fluid, checked the health of alternator and starter, drove the car to check the proper functioning of the automatic fan that stays on when the engine is turned off until the temperature if under around 195 degrees.
I was told from another question that the part defective may be the fan thermostatic switch. If the battery is not fully charged it can confuse the process of the fan coming on and off as it should. Also car owner's friend has been fooling with a blue thing, though to be a blue fuse.
The bottom line is that the car owner trust AAA and the mechanic said that was a mistake. I agree.
The car owner's daughter is running the show and that person does not trust me.
This car is driven less than 10 miles a week. Would abandoning a mechanically sound car solve that source of a slow battery drain?
No. And as the battery drains down then when this fan stays on to cool down a hot engine then it drains the battery more. Since the engine is off and the battery is not being charged by the alternator.
Battery: good, needs charge
385 cca.
I just talked to the mechanic and they changed the oil, added transmission fluid, checked the health of alternator and starter, drove the car to check the proper functioning of the automatic fan that stays on when the engine is turned off until the temperature if under around 195 degrees.
I was told from another question that the part defective may be the fan thermostatic switch. If the battery is not fully charged it can confuse the process of the fan coming on and off as it should. Also car owner's friend has been fooling with a blue thing, though to be a blue fuse.
The bottom line is that the car owner trust AAA and the mechanic said that was a mistake. I agree.
The car owner's daughter is running the show and that person does not trust me.
This car is driven less than 10 miles a week. Would abandoning a mechanically sound car solve that source of a slow battery drain?
No. And as the battery drains down then when this fan stays on to cool down a hot engine then it drains the battery more. Since the engine is off and the battery is not being charged by the alternator.
ASKER
Replacing the mechanically sound car won't solve the issue of infrequent driving and "after engine turned off fan" from draining the battery slowly over time.
The current car is not the problem.
The current car is not the problem.
Good luck with perhaps better servicing.
ASKER
Only the death of the car owner will end it. That will likely be in the next 13 years if they reach age 100.
So the battery is half the size it should be and then it drains in a hurry.
Before the owner ditches the car, have them install the proper Honda battery.
Car owner only drives the 90 Honda Accord about 1-2 times a week. <-- This means they need to charge the battery properly about quarterly.